Is your seating die micrometer accurate, not repeatable/consistent, accurate? When you move the micrometer .003 does it move the bullet depth .003?
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My Wilson seating dies are very accurate. But, you know, a lot a variance can be induced with the neck tension isn't consistent or the seating is quite tight. Since I anneal my cases after every firing, I get very consistent/repeatable seating with my die adjustments, and the adjustments are accurate.Is your seating die micrometer accurate, not repeatable/consistent, accurate? When you move the micrometer .003 does it move the bullet depth .003?
Friends don't let friends compress ...Pretty much. I use Redding too.
I do get COAL SD of 2-3thousands so it takes few rounds to confirm but it is there.
The best test is to do a full turn and see how much it changes, much easier that way.
And when compressing, things get complicated.
I do anneal after every firing and set neck tension with a bushing die to control neck tension the necks are also lubed with graphite. I do get pretty consistent seating depths after I get the die adjusted which isn't hard just a little fine tuning to get it right.My Wilson seating dies are very accurate. But, you know, a lot a variance can be induced with the neck tension isn't consistent or the seating is quite tight. Since I anneal my cases after every firing, I get very consistent/repeatable seating with my die adjustments, and the adjustments are accurate.
View attachment 7888910
It's a Redding Premium micrometer die.Did I miss what does your using?
People love to hack on Hornady products but I think their is more value in their dies than most people would like to admit, same goes for Lee.My Hornady is.
People love to hack on Hornady products but I think their is more value in their dies than most people would like to admit, same goes for Lee.
I'm sure you meant size die rather than seating if you had shoulder bump issues. Don't get me started on the sizing die that came with this Redding seating die I'm playing with now.My Hornady 300 PRC seating die disagrees with you. Shoulder bump was inconsistent, slightly over-sized in the body. I got it when that's all you could get, and it got replaced as soon as Whidden made one.
I'm sure you meant size die rather than seating if you had shoulder bump issues. Don't get me started on the sizing die that came with this Redding seating die I'm playing with now.
You may not buy another Hornady die but I will not be purchasing another Redding die ever. Customer service never responded either so double nil on that one.
I have 4 redding seating dies and they all are very accurate and repeatable . Not impressed with CS at all though. Won't buy any more because of the CS
That's a very good point and why I sort my bullets from the bullets base to the seating pin contact point on the ogive instead of the ogive point just above the bearing surface. This way I get very consistent seating depths, though the jump distance will vary a little. And that works great since that amount of jump distance difference makes no significant difference in performance. Seating depth differences are way more important.Don't forget about slight variations in bullet to bullet ogive profile variations. This will also lead to "inconsistent" COAL/COH dimensions. There just isn't a hell of a lot you can do about It.
I was thinking along those same lines as I was playing with this die. Why aren't we seating the bullet from the same place on the ojive that we are measuring on the ojive? Does anyone make a seating die that does that?That's a very good point and why I sort my bullets from the bullets base to the seating pin contact point on the ogive instead of the ogive point just above the bearing surface. This way I get very consistent seating depths, though the jump distance will vary a little. And that works great since that amount of jump distance difference makes no significant difference in performance. Seating depth differences are way more important.
It is the natural manufacturing variations of the bullets themselves. No die can compensate for that. As mentioned above, you can sort bullets by length (Ogive to Base). Or, you could sort by weight. I've tried both in the past. I didn't find that there was enough benefit in doing either (for me) so I quit doing it. YMMV.I was thinking along those same lines as I was playing with this die. Why aren't we seating the bullet from the same place on the ojive that we are measuring on the ojive? Does anyone make a seating die that does that?
My point was that you have a variance in the bullet between the spot you measure on the ojive and the place that you seat from on the tip area. Even if the ojive relationship was perfect between two bullets the variance between the ojive and the tip could be moving the measured seating depth because the tips have a variance between the two bullets. By measuring at the ojive and seating at the ojive you would remove one variable.It is the natural manufacturing variations of the bullets themselves. No die can compensate for that. As mentioned above, you can sort bullets by length (Ogive to Base). Or, you could sort by weight. I've tried both in the past. I didn't find that there was enough benefit in doing either (for me) so I quit doing it. YMMV.
Granted, the variations are slight, but they do exist. I concluded a long time ago that there was nothing I could do to compensate/correct for those variables and that I should just go shoot.
Personally, my belief is that seating dies are actually pretty simple devices and in this day and age, it's difficult to make a shitty one. Oh, they're out there, but the shitty ones are usually the result of carelessness and/or indifference during the manufacturing process. Poor QC is usually the root cause.
Nothing is perfect. I use Wilson dies exclusively because of the high level of consistency in their quality and as importantly, their usability. Although, I did get a .308W seater from them that I had to rework because the chamber was so loose. Other than that, I've never had any problems with them.
The ogive is the entire curved surface from where the bearing surface ends to where the meplat begins.My point was that you have a variance in the bullet between the spot you measure on the ojive and the place that you seat from on the tip area. Even if the ojive relationship was perfect between two bullets the variance between the ojive and the tip could be moving the measured seating depth because the tips have a variance between the two bullets. By measuring at the ojive and seating at the ojive you would remove one variable.
I have lapped my seating stem as well but it still isn't going to contact the bullet on the ojive comparator contact point. I guess you could get a comparator that would measure from the seating stem contact point, that may be the easiest way to maintain consistent contact points.You can shape your seating stem to whatever profile you like for it to contact your bullet wherever you want. I shape all my seating stems with a sacrifical bullet and lapping compound
I'll have to look into that a little more I don't think he is doing what I'm trying to describe but the BGC is purely for comparative measure of ogive radius variances.The ogive is the entire curved surface from where the bearing surface ends to where the meplat begins.
If you want to sort by the difference between your seater contact and the comparator contact then you can use the bob green comparator to do so. It measures this “critical distance”
View attachment 7889302
The ogive is the entire curved surface from where the bearing surface ends to where the meplat begins.
If you want to sort by the difference between your seater contact and the comparator contact then you can use the bob green comparator to do so. It measures this “critical distance”
View attachment 7889302
it's not the die, it's the brass. I use Redding, Wilson and Forster all with micrometer screws. All are extremely accurate. The reason I can get unconsistent seating depth (I mean by that more than one thau variation) is brass. If there is deifferent hardness in the brass you will see it while formating (you will get a difference in headspace). If I assume there will be difference in neck tension as well I anticipate that and seat my bullets long and than adjust with the micrometer. I will still have difference in neck tension but at least I will have consistent seating depth.
This is making a lot of sense to me, you have to take out any clearances that may be present in the die/press/shell holder assembly and then let the seating stem take over and seat the bullet. I'm going to look at my setup and see if this can be applied.You must contact die body to shellholder very hard to get repeatable results. If not, your cartridge length will vary.
Good hands on information that I can use. Thank you!For me, when it comes to my Forster die (https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/bench-rest-ultra-micrometer-seater-dies/), one line = .0005", always (meaning: as long as I haven't messed anything else up along the way lol). EDIT: even though according to Forster: one line should/is supposed to = .001" (and FWIW, this is with 6mm/.243" bullets).
Seating-depth tests are no drama as long as I count my turns properly and end up being within ~ +/- .001" of what I hoped they'd end up at when checked with calipers.
I like seater dies that contact the shell plate with a "sheath" that wraps up the whole cartridge before the bullet seats, I had used a Hornady Match Grade micrometer die for a long time that made great ammo, but it was not as consistent and/or predictable/repeatable when talking thousandths...
FWIW, I borrowed/tried using a Wilson in-line micrometer seater and arbor press for a while to seat bullets (to compare the against the Forester) and it was a wash for me, the Wilson/Arbor method was just slower and more annoying. YMMV.