Issue with Forster FLS die?

[rybern]

I'm new to precision reloading and setting up a Forster FLS die in 6.5CM. Brass is Hornady once fired through my Bergara. I tumbled it for 1.5 hrs in corn Cobb with a splash of New Finish. Then used Hornady case lubes. Die is set between 1/8-1/4 turn past bottom of stroke. First case came out fine but the next three have dimples at the neck.

I ran a brush inside the die and then a wet patch and tried again. Two more cases came out dimpled.... one of them even worse than pictured above. Then I backed off the die to where it's not bumping the neck back and it does fine.

What might I be doing wrong?

The top of my bench is flexing down when I size. Could this be part of it? The flexing causes the motion to not be one smooth motion. I intend to make a riser like I have done with my other presses.

Here's my set up. I've been reloading on a SDB and 550(223) for quite a few years but I've had my 223 brass processed.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

Too much case lube on the shoulders.

 

[pabrousseau]

try imperial die wax and graphite neck lube.

 

[Steel head]

You basically only need lube on the sides of the case and some on the neck depending on your dies.

 

[Cobblestone]

I agree with the above guys to much case lube.

 

[spife7980]

I always lube my shoulders because I spray lube as well.

It could be too much lube... or it could be just simply not allowing enough time for it to dry and for the nonlube part to evaporate off. Let it sit for 15 minutes where it can breath and air can pass over it and then try again.
Though at this point they may be fine. If they are still coming out like this then you have too much.

 

[rybern]

You guys were correct. Seems like a rookie mistake now, lol. I just did 35 cases with minimal lube and all is well. I'm getting the hang of it now. Too little lube and the case gets tight and the rim pulls down a little which I'm learning affects the headspace (using the Hornady comparator).

spilfe7980, I didn't let the lube dry at all. I'm using Hornady lube and a pad, not spray lube. I'm assuming this is correct.

I have some spray lube but not sure if it's OK to get into the case necks. It seems overspray into the necks would provide inconsistent coverage.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Cobblestone]

You guys were correct. Seems like a rookie mistake now, lol. I just did 35 cases with minimal lube and all is well. I'm getting the hang of it now. Too little lube and the case gets tight and the rim pulls down a little which I'm learning affects the headspace (using the Hornady comparator).

spilfe7980, I didn't let the lube dry at all. I'm using Hornady lube and a pad, not spray lube. I'm assuming this is correct.

I have some spray lube but not sure if it's OK to get into the case necks. It seems overspray into the necks would provide inconsistent coverage.

Thanks for your help.

I use Hornady spray lube i usually turn the tray and do a lite coating and then I let it sit a minute before I start resizing

 

[Cobblestone]

You guys were correct. Seems like a rookie mistake now, lol. I just did 35 cases with minimal lube and all is well. I'm getting the hang of it now. Too little lube and the case gets tight and the rim pulls down a little which I'm learning affects the headspace (using the Hornady comparator).

spilfe7980, I didn't let the lube dry at all. I'm using Hornady lube and a pad, not spray lube. I'm assuming this is correct.

I have some spray lube but not sure if it's OK to get into the case necks. It seems overspray into the necks would provide inconsistent coverage.

Thanks for your help.

I use Hornady spray lube i usually turn the tray and do a lite coating and then I let it sit a minute before I start resizing.

 

[Timo Turl]

You guys were correct. Seems like a rookie mistake now, lol. I just did 35 cases with minimal lube and all is well. I'm getting the hang of it now. Too little lube and the case gets tight and the rim pulls down a little which I'm learning affects the headspace (using the Hornady comparator).

spilfe7980, I didn't let the lube dry at all. I'm using Hornady lube and a pad, not spray lube. I'm assuming this is correct.

I have some spray lube but not sure if it's OK to get into the case necks. It seems overspray into the necks would provide inconsistent coverage.

Thanks for your help.

Is the die marked "FORSTER 6.5 CRDMR FLS-Y" ?

 

[Cobblestone]

Is the die marked "FORSTER 6.5 CRDMR FLS-Y" ?

What’s the y stand for

 

[Timo Turl]

no idea but they are out of spec and being recalled

 

[Cobblestone]

no idea but they are out of spec and being recalled

Oh okay I got you

 

[spife7980]

I have some spray lube but not sure if it's OK to get into the case necks. It seems overspray into the necks would provide inconsistent coverage.

I purposefully spray inside my necks. Lubes them for the expander and makes it much smoother.

You clean them after you’re done sizing so it doesn’t matter if it gets in the neck, it goes right back out.

 

[rybern]

Is the die marked "FORSTER 6.5 CRDMR FLS-Y" ?

As a matter of fact, it is. I've sized 50 cases.... actually 57 counting the screwed up ones. I bought it from Creedmoor Sports(only place that had it in stock) and it came sealed NIB.

 

[rybern]

Thanks for all the info guys.

I've been a 3-gunner for 10 years. I never thought I'd load for PR.... but here I go. I have lots to learn.

 

[rybern]

I use Hornady spray lube i usually turn the tray and do a lite coating and then I let it sit a minute before I start resizing.

Thanks for the info. What do you mean by "turn the tray"?

 

[Cobblestone]

Thanks for the info. What do you mean by "turn the tray"?

As I spray I just rotate the tray in my hand so the spare of on all sides of the brass

 

[rybern]

As I spray I just rotate the tray in my hand so the spare of on all sides of the brass

Ah, ok. The tray has the cases standing up instead of the cases laying on the side. Thanks.

 

[Gustav7]

Ah, ok. The tray has the cases standing up instead of the cases laying on the side. Thanks.

I used to do something very similar to Cobblestone. However I've found that you don't even need to be that detailed with it generally speaking. I use 99% alcohol and the lanolin home mix, throw my cases in a little tupper ware box thing (about 12x8"), spray a few sprays in there, and shake it up. Has worked pretty well for me so far. Definitely need to give it some time to dry.

 

[drew_235]

no idea but they are out of spec and being recalled

Do you have any more information on this recall? I have searched and not been able to find anything about it.

 

[Timo Turl]

As a matter of fact, it is. I've sized 50 cases.... actually 57 counting the screwed up ones. I bought it from Creedmoor Sports(only place that had it in stock) and it came sealed NIB.
View attachment 7376960

Here is a link to the Forster Facebook page mentioning a potential issue with these dies being undersized.

 

[drew_235]

Here is a link to the Forster Facebook page mentioning a potential issue with these dies being undersized.

Looks like I need to send them an email and get mine replaced. I haven't had a chance to use it yet so thank you for bringing this up.

 

[want2learn]

thank you for posting this.....as is my fortune, i waited almost a month for this die to arrive....and of course the die is undersized. your post saved me from having the case get stuck and spending too much time trying to get it unstuck and figuring out the problem.

 

[rybern]

Thanks for the info, I'm undersized too. I sure thought it took a lot of effort to resize these, but that explains it.

Glad I was beginning with my Hornady brass, I would have been pissed if I would have ran my Lapua brass through this.

 

[rybern]

Come to think of it..... it IS a problem with the Forster die. That was my last guess.

I suspect I was still using too much case lube. I appreciate the responses and advise on all.

 

[rybern]

Case diameter at the neck with this "undersized" FLS-Y is the same as Hornady 140 Match ammo. Thoughts?

 

[Gustav7]

Case diameter at the neck with this "undersized" FLS-Y is the same as Hornady 140 Match ammo. Thoughts?

well that’s not the neck...

What did Forster say was undersized? The body portion? Idk could have some spring back in there but could still be overworking the brass.
I wouldn’t chance it.

 

[rybern]

well that’s not the neck...

What did Forster say was undersized? The body portion? Idk could have some spring back in there but could still be overworking the brass.
I wouldn’t chance it.

Neck, lol... I knew that. Top edge of the body. I hope that the die is undersized. I'm looking forward to hearing from Forster.

 

[Gustav7]

Neck, lol... I knew that. Top edge of the body. I hope that the die is undersized. I'm looking forward to hearing from Forster.

I think the denting of the shoulder is the lube, but POSSIBLY exacerbated by the undersized die. Let us know what Forster says, hopefully its a quick turn around.

Are you in any kind of time crunch for using the FL die? I'm not currently using mine as I just finished a big batch of my 6.5 loads.

 

[rybern]

I got this from Forster this morning.
Thanks for contacting us about this, we did have some dies within that batch that did not get cut with the finish reamer (not all dies were undersized). If you would provide us with your address, we will send you a mailing label so it can be sent in for our review and replacement if needed. Sorry of the inconvenience.

Scott Kempel
Forster Products Inc.


I responded with this and included the photo that I posted above
Scott,

Your company makes very nice parts. I've been a machinist for 25 years and I'm impressed with the fit and finish on the dies. I appreciate the way you're handling this so far. I've included a picture that might help you determine. The die is sitting on a case that was fired in my 6.5 Bergara Pro.

Thanks,
Ryan

He responded with:
From the image, yours looks potentially ok, I think it would still be best if we sent you a label so we could check for sure, we will send one later today.

Scott Kempel
Forster Products Inc.

 

[Gustav7]

Love seeing good customer service.

 

[rybern]

Love seeing good customer service.

I agree 100%. Kind response first thing Monday morning.... after a full weekend of Covid crap.

 

[drew_235]

He responded with:
From the image, yours looks potentially ok, I think it would still be best if we sent you a label so we could check for sure, we will send one later today.

Scott Kempel
Forster Products Inc.

You and I were e-mailing Scott in parallel yesterday morning as I had a very similar exchange with him. Did you ever get a shipping label? I was so stoked with the speedy replies that I was getting but still have not received the shipping label.

 

[want2learn]

quality control issues and snafus could happen to anyone or any company, i appreciate that.

i received my shipping label yesterday afternoon...running to the post office shortly to mail it in. While i hope it doesn't take too long to get it back, i'm pleased they responded so quickly and professionally.

i must say i've been very pleased with Forster over the past years, it's refreshing.

 

[rybern]

You and I were e-mailing Scott in parallel yesterday morning as I had a very similar exchange with him. Did you ever get a shipping label? I was so stoked with the speedy replies that I was getting but still have not received the shipping label.

I got a shipping label yesterday at 4:08 pm CST. I shipped my die out this morning.

 

[drew_235]

I reached out to them today and they sent me a label promptly. Apparently they typed in the wrong e-mail address yesterday when sending it to me...

 

[rybern]

I reached out to them today and they sent me a label promptly. Apparently they typed in the wrong e-mail address yesterday when sending it to me...

Good deal. I'll post when mine comes back and what they did.

 

[want2learn]

just wanted to follow up on these posts......i just now received the package from Forster....they sent me a brand new die in box. took a total of 9 days, not too bad. just resized 10 cases and it works nicely.

 

[rybern]

just wanted to follow up on these posts......i just now received the package from Forster....they sent me a brand new die in box. took a total of 9 days, not too bad. just resized 10 cases and it works nicely.

That's great to hear, thanks for the update. I haven't received my die yet. Hopefully mine will come in any day now.

 

[drew_235]

just wanted to follow up on these posts......i just now received the package from Forster....they sent me a brand new die in box. took a total of 9 days, not too bad. just resized 10 cases and it works nicely.

Mine is supposed to arrive tomorrow and I shipped it out last Thursday, so 9 days as well. Amazing customer service on their part.

 

[rybern]

One more thing. I set the expander ball just like Forster recommends in the instructions. This is how I did my first batch of (50) Hornady once fired cases. But I have been reading that many folks say to remove the expander ball. I'm confused. What's wrong with using the Forster expander ball?

 

[want2learn]

....if you're using an expander die you don't need the expander ball in the full length sizing die as well. this prevents over working the case since you're doing the expansion with a separate die.

it's funny you should mention this because i tried to unscrew the expander ball and it was on crazy tight...will have to try again later.

 

[Snuby642]

Case lube.

I could not find any spray lubes since I had 462 cases to do.
Thought oh well back to wax and dry lube for the neck.

Did a little experiment with the hornady wax I had on the 223 cases.

Afrer fooling around by feeling the amount of force it took with expander ball installed determined that the expander is the brunt of the force used and full lenght sizing the body is secondary in the forcr used.

Was lazy and instead of the normal dry lube for the neck I used a cotton swab to apply wax to the inside of the case mouth and my finger to apply on the case body with the slightest amount to the neck and shoulder only occasionally.

Settled on needing to wax only every third case, run two dry, repeat.

You could feel the fourth case start to drag and the fifth case had a oh shit feel to it and was quickly abandoned.

I had tried this with dry lube in the neck and wax on the body and only got to every other case.

I pulled 3 cases out of the tub, drop them on a cloth next to the wax, apply wax on one run the other two.
It made a decent rhythm.

Using wax on every fifth primer pocket worked well for swaging out crimps. A small amount on a cotton swab and a quick twist to just lube top of pocket.

Just a way to roll if you're out of spray lube or dont like it.

 

[rybern]

....if you're using an expander die you don't need the expander ball in the full length sizing die as well. this prevents over working the case since you're doing the expansion with a separate die.

it's funny you should mention this because i tried to unscrew the expander ball and it was on crazy tight...will have to try again later.

Thanks for the info. I researched a bit further and now think using an expander mandrel is for me. I'm looking at the Wilson expander mandrel set or Sinclair.

 

[drew_235]

My new FLS die arrived via USPS today. Yes, it's a brand new die. It was accompanied by a nice letter explaining that it was a new die and thanking me for my business.
Upon opening the box with the die and inspecting it closely, I had to chuckle because there is now a check mark engraved next to the "Y."

 

[rybern]

My new FLS die arrived via USPS today. Yes, it's a brand new die. It was accompanied by a nice letter explaining that it was a new die and thanking me for my business.
Upon opening the box with the die and inspecting it closely, I had to chuckle because there is now a check mark engraved next to the "Y."

Not all Y dies are out of spec. I suspect they went through and tested the Y dies and marked them as they passed or corrected any error.

 

[Snuby642]

The expander in my dies has to be extremely tight so it doesn't pull out.

I would like to go to mandrell die as well but am thinking of leaving a grossly under sized expander ball in my sizing die.

That would still clear anything out of flash hole and help straighten dings in neck.

I want it undersized to the point of zero drag on a strait neck and not requiring any lube.

I could use input on that.

 

[rybern]

I haven't forgotten about you guys. I still haven't received my sizer. I might should reach out to them.

 

[rybern]

Its been over 3 weeks since I shipped my die to Forster but my die has finally shipped. I had asked them to hone it and I suppose this is why it took longer than others. They did hone it at no cost so I cannot complain too much. Glad it's on its way back to me.