Jewel trigger failures in the field?

InkedIan

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Sep 6, 2007
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While RSOing awhile back for a match I watched 3 different Remington 700s malfunction 4 different times (1 rifle did it twice and was unfortunately pulled from the match) in my squad. The problem was the same every time where the shooter would pull the trigger with nothing happening and as soon as the shooter would touch the bolt or slightly lift up the rifle would fire. There were high winds that day with lots of dust flying around. I asked 2 of the shooters what triggers they were using and both said Jewel. Now I know most of the bench rest guy’s looovvveeee jewel but generally these guys aren't down in the dirt getting a lot of grit in their actions.

Now my question is it a common occurrence for jewel owners that get down and dirty or was this a fluke?
 
I hear the same thing all over the webz, but have never witnessed this my self. I do not shoot comps and trying to wrap my head around the mysterious competition dirt and debris that kills jewels.

I shoot my rifle in some nasty, gritty, high wind, dirt crunching in the teeth environment. The winds and the dirt on the prairie are relentless, the bolt sometimes gets gritty as I cycle it. Never experienced this problem, then again I PM my rifle. I dont know, sounds like lack of maintenance on the shooters part.
 
I've had the same happen with a xmark trigger - bottom line was the trigger was dirty after several hundred rounds and operating in blowing wind environments. Now I know about that particular failure mode, and The trigger gets cleaned along with the remainder of the rifle.

It's the shooter's fault for failing to PM the gear, not the gear's fault.
 
This has been addressed before.
blown primers breaking the trigger, dirt, bla, bla, bla,
A.J. responded in a previous thread. If it didn't fail for him, it's
operator error, lack of maint. If you NEVER clean your shit, too hot
a load, look at something else. It is never NOT dusty, windy in Colo.
N.M. and Wyo. Never had a problem.
 
Jewell triggers are not robust. If you set the pull to a normal weight, the finger lever actually bends and flexes prior to firing. Too tight, too light, too flimsy. Best thing about a Jewell is that they are in so many rifles I purchase. I remove them and sell. Replacing with a standard Remington old style. Net is about 160 gain. Done it a couple of dozen times. Love Jewell triggers, come to think of it.
 
We all know not cleaning your firearm of any type can cause malfunctions, but if your firearm is discharging anytime other than when the trigger is being pulled(or otherwise designed to go off) that's either bad modifications or a design flaw in some part of the firearm. Just my opinion... Is this only a remy 700 and clone thing?
 
Here's another Jewell that failed: De-Gunking a Jewell Trigger ? Speedy Shows How « Daily Bulletin
deadhorse.gif

Several Timneys and another Jewell that failed all at the same match: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...emington-model-700-trigger-2.html#post3085602

The matches I've attended and use afield have not been an issue for my rifle and Jewell trigger. I do clean my gun though after it gets full of grit. I also do my best to keep the grit from getting in there too.

I suspect that for 99% of shooters out there a Jewell will never be an issue for people that maintain their equipment.

For people that go to matches in the desert with wind-driven grit and sand shooting a few hundred rounds, any trigger will fail once it's full of junk.

Keep your gear clean and you won't have an issue. Besides if it's "critical" to have an operational gun wherever you are, then have a cleanup kit and another trigger in your pack as backup.
 
I just dont see how its a flaw, what would lend them to be more prone to failure than any other trigger? Maybe they were not designed for heavy field use, I dont know. I just have not experienced this mysterious field failure that guys are claiming, and I shoot a lot.

As for the flex, yes its true, but it is not the shoe that flexes, there is a tension spring for weight and it does move a tiny bit before firing. I will not call it creep in the sense that creep(IMO) is when the trigger grinds its way to the breaking point and if you let go, will stay at that point. The tension is so very minute, but is why I prefer the Jewel, it makes the break predicable. The pad of our fingers is very sensitive, enough that you can recognize small items like a grain of sand or even smaller object under it. I know how much tension to put on the trigger and exactly when it will break. This way I am not slamming the trigger or jerking it in anticipation of recoil.

Thats just me.
 
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Jewell triggers are not robust. If you set the pull to a normal weight, the finger lever actually bends and flexes prior to firing. Too tight, too light, too flimsy. Best thing about a Jewell is that they are in so many rifles I purchase. I remove them and sell. Replacing with a standard Remington old style. Net is about 160 gain. Done it a couple of dozen times. Love Jewell triggers, come to think of it.

PM me with those POS Jewell triggers your selling for a buck sixty!
 
Here's another Jewell that failed: De-Gunking a Jewell Trigger ? Speedy Shows How « Daily Bulletin
deadhorse.gif

Several Timneys and another Jewell that failed all at the same match: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...emington-model-700-trigger-2.html#post3085602

The matches I've attended and use afield have not been an issue for my rifle and Jewell trigger. I do clean my gun though after it gets full of grit. I also do my best to keep the grit from getting in there too.

I suspect that for 99% of shooters out there a Jewell will never be an issue for people that maintain their equipment.

For people that go to matches in the desert with wind-driven grit and sand shooting a few hundred rounds, any trigger will fail once it's full of junk.

Keep your gear clean and you won't have an issue. Besides if it's "critical" to have an operational gun wherever you are, then have a cleanup kit and another trigger in your pack as backup.


Right, but none of these or any others I've seen talk about the A.D. I described... The rifles didn't completely stop working or have parts break, they fired when the bolt was being lifted which can be deadly to the shooter if the bolt comes up far enough. Whether it's a jewel problem, a remy 700 problem, or just a fluke IDK. I just wanted to know if this was a common occurrence. Also, I've never had any trigger will fail do to being dirty and at times I have had many different rifles and pistols get extremely dirty.
 
Sell them for 200 and pay 40 for Rem. Have only one now. Will list it soon.

Mcfred,
You are about right. They are safe about 99% of the time. If you like that, drive on. They do fail and not just when dirty. If your rifle fires without pulling the trigger or seizes up, you will know you are the 1%. Is that some consolation.

Roggom,
Your triggers may do what you say. When I say the fucking trigger lever flexes, what I mean is the fucking trigger lever flexes. I can easily see it.

You can also simply break them off in cold weather. When I say break off the finger lever, what I mean is the fucking finger lever breaks off. They are made for single shot benchrest rifles. Otherwise why the .062 flimsy finger lever? It is to make weight on BR rifles.

Jewell triggers are another solution for a problem that does not exist. Similar to the M16 and Sako extractors that fail so often when added to the 700 bolt.
 
The trigger break is set at 2.5 or so lbs how are you breaking off a trigger? Thats all on you.

If it flexes it has to be with more force than the break is set, so I can not rationalize this flex other than the tension spring. After the trigger breaks, then sure it will flex if you put enough force. Thats past any overtravel and when it bottoms out.

Not gonna try to convince anyone of anything, folks dont like Jewel, well there are other triggers. Just trying to filter the BS.
 
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Sell them for 200 and pay 40 for Rem. Have only one now. Will list it soon.

Mcfred,
You are about right. They are safe about 99% of the time. If you like that, drive on. They do fail and not just when dirty. If your rifle fires without pulling the trigger or seizes up, you will know you are the 1%. Is that some consolation.

Roggom,
Your triggers may do what you say. When I say the fucking trigger lever flexes, what I mean is the fucking trigger lever flexes. I can easily see it.

You can also simply break them off in cold weather. When I say break off the finger lever, what I mean is the fucking finger lever breaks off. They are made for single shot benchrest rifles. Otherwise why the .062 flimsy finger lever? It is to make weight on BR rifles.

Jewell triggers are another solution for a problem that does not exist. Similar to the M16 and Sako extractors that fail so often when added to the 700 bolt.


If you do not like Jewell Triggers, then don't buy them. All I know is they are backordered just about everywhere. I just bought ANOTHER one this week, and paid $230 shipped because I wanted it now!

As for SAKO Extractors, I am a big fan of them. I know the "inherent" problems with them, but I will take my chances. If the SAKO Extractor is installed properly, it will eject at the proper angle. If your cases are sized properly to your chamber specs, and gun is clean, and you do not make the load to hot... then a SAKO is not needed. However, it is very nice having a gun that extracts everything. Does not matter if cases are not properly fitted to the chamber, or gun is dirty, or round is hot, the SAKO will extract it.
 
I USE ALOT OF JEWEL TRIGGERS....MOSTLY BR TRIGGERS......NEVER CHANGED FACTORY ADJS... NEVER TAKEN ONE APART TO CLEAN....LAST GUN I SOLD I SHOT FOR 3 YEARS ( 3 BARRELS WORTH ) IN "f" CLASS COMPETITIONS AND PRACTICED MOST WEDS.
NEW OWNER HAD TO ADJUST IT....AND HAD PROBLEMS....TOOK APART AND IT WAS REALLY DIRTY...BUT NEVER MALFUNCTIONED FOR ME...
 
Jewells are not field worthy by any stretch of the imagination. They are an accident waiting to happen.

Seen it far too often, especially in rain and in that micro-fine sand when it's blown around. At Rifles Only we would see it monthly.

Been discussed here far too often, it's not always operator error. It doesn't take much to screw them up. If you run a Jewel you have to carry around a bottle of Ronsen Lighter fluid to douche it out.
 
I bought a gun, with a Jewell, a while back. It would "go off" when I closed the bolt. Pulled it apart for a clean up and adjustment, and it's been fine ever since. BUT.... I still treat the gun with a little extra "care and respect", and don't let friends shoot it.
 
Jewells are not field worthy by any stretch of the imagination. They are an accident waiting to happen.

Seen it far too often, especially in rain and in that micro-fine sand when it's blown around. At Rifles Only we would see it monthly.

Been discussed here far too often, it's not always operator error. It doesn't take much to screw them up. If you run a Jewel you have to carry around a bottle of Ronsen Lighter fluid to douche it out.


I would agree, it is completely enclosed, and it the parts are mated tightly. Though I have never had a problem, I can see things getting stuck in the that jewell enclosure. I clean mine one a year with lighter fluid (as recommended to me by someone long ago).
 
Jewells are not field worthy by any stretch of the imagination. They are an accident waiting to happen.

Seen it far too often, especially in rain and in that micro-fine sand when it's blown around. At Rifles Only we would see it monthly.

Been discussed here far too often, it's not always operator error. It doesn't take much to screw them up. If you run a Jewel you have to carry around a bottle of Ronsen Lighter fluid to douche it out.

Not being a smart-ass, just wondering why if Jewells are an "accident waiting to happen", why do these guys use them as their standard triggers in their rifles??

Surgeon Rifles
Robert Gradous
McWhorter Rifles
Gunwerks
Louisiana Precision
 
I've been running a Timney for years without any issues and I've butt slammed the rifle after adjustments and wiggled the bolt around to try to get it to fire and it won't do it. Nothing is perfect but I hear about this happening with Jewel triggers a lot. In my opinion, if an aftermarket part allows a rifle to fire under ANY circumstance other than the immediate aftermath of the trigger being depressed, you have turned your rifle into a dangerous instrument. If you are a bench rest guy and you are always shooting from a clean smooth surface then you have my blessing to engage in whatever silly rituals that culture subscribes to. If you are going to be shooting a tactical match, in snow-dust-dirt-grime, anywhere near other shooters, please make gear choices that are safe. If you want to run the risk of blowing the gun up in your face that's fine, but if you trip or bump the gun and it goes off and hits somebody else...that's just plain eff'ed up.
 
Not being a smart-ass, just wondering why if Jewells are an "accident waiting to happen", why do these guys use them as their standard triggers in their rifles??

Surgeon Rifles
Robert Gradous
McWhorter Rifles
Gunwerks
Louisiana Precision
\

Pretty darn simple... Customers are idiots and will ask for them so companies carry them.

Had a brand new Shooter attend my Enhanced PR Class over the weekend, Brand new gun, well respected Smith on here, (won't mention his name) and on Sunday I shot the guys rifle / trigger. (Jewell)

The Smith set the trigger for a guys first rifle to 1.3LBS ... I felt that, stopped the guy and immediately upped it to 2.5LBS and the shooter made huge improvements in consistency.

Just because someone uses it or sells it doesn't make it right, just means people request it.

List anyone you want, it's a bad trigger for a Tactical Rifle, the evidence in this respect is clear. Nobody you listed started out as tactical guys, the just moved into that space.
 
\

Pretty darn simple... Customers are idiots and will ask for them so companies carry them.

Had a brand new Shooter attend my Enhanced PR Class over the weekend, Brand new gun, well respected Smith on here, (won't mention his name) and on Sunday I shot the guys rifle / trigger. (Jewell)

The Smith set the trigger for a guys first rifle to 1.3LBS ... I felt that, stopped the guy and immediately upped it to 2.5LBS and the shooter made huge improvements in consistency.

Just because someone uses it or sells it doesn't make it right, just means people request it.

List anyone you want, it's a bad trigger for a Tactical Rifle, the evidence in this respect is clear. Nobody you listed started out as tactical guys, the just moved into that space.

What triggers are BEST suited for tactical rifles or for rifles used in dusty/dirty environments?? It seems that many brands have failed in these conditions...Jewell, Timney Calvin Elite, and Remingtons.
 
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Geissele triggers are very solid. I own a couple of them. I'm not a fan of the Jewel, or the RRA triggers, Ive tried and disliked both. I have Geissele triggers in a number of weapons, and they have never failed me. I have tried Timney and didn't get that wow factor, but I didn't have any complaints about it either.
 
The reason some of the better suited triggers fail is because people over adjust them and set them too low.

In that case you are confusing operator error with a problem that is created by dirty environments, it's not the same, to say, "they all fail" while technically might be correct, the "why" matters.

When you have guys who were bench rest smiths, or F Class Smiths, etc, who cross over into the Tactical Field, they generally go with what they know. If it worked for them early on, they run with it. Like why the hell would you set a trigger on any tactical rifle to 1.3LBS ? Especially if you don't know the shooter, but since they are used to competition guys spending their kind of money for these customers builds they repeat what they know. Hence you get a tactical rifle with a trigger that is an accident waiting to happen.

Funny, not a single one of my GA Precision rifles ever came with a Jewell, maybe because George knows me, how hard I run my stuff. Doesn't mean someone else can't get one from GAP, just means he knows enough about me not to put one in my rifles. And trust me, I don't spec what trigger he uses for my builds.

There is more than one way to cause a failure, however failures due to dirt & debris are what we call a clue. Failures due to improperly adjusting them are a different story. Hell I have seen guys mess up an AI trigger over adjusting them trying to turn them into Single Stage Triggers. Those are arguably one of the best tactical triggers, but you can still make them fail. But you go down a line and see several rifles have the triggers fail due to conditions, sand, rain, etc, and they are all Jewell or the majority are Jewel, that is a red flag that needs to be heeded.
 
If Jewell isn't a tactical trigger, which trigger would you all suggest? I'm asking because I have a Jewell on my Surgeon actioned .308 that I've re-stocked and re-barrelled from a bench gun to a hunting/tactical rifle. While I've never had any issues with my Jewell and love how it feels, I plan to spend a lot more time in the field with it and should it ever go down, I'd like to know what to replace it with.
 
I was at the New Mexico PRS match this last weekend. It was the worst conditions that probably exist for equipment. 20-40 MPH wind in a literal sand storm with silt sized particulate. It broke everything. Timney, Jewells, hell even the AI's had issue. Point in fact, even my Glock 34 quit working, and my Samsung point and click camera is now just a paper weight. There was no amount PM that would have prevented any of this, and it seemed to play hell to everything on an equal level.

I think saying that Jewell is not fit for a tactical rifle any anyone running them in a tactical rifle is an idiot is a bit harsh as most of the top ranked tactical shooters run them.

By the way, I have no dog in the fight, and this is simply an observation. I shoot for Desert Technologies (DTA) which has its own trigger system.

Ty
 
I never said anyone who is running them is an idiot, reading comprehension.

I said gunsmiths will use them because customers are idiots and don't know any better and will order them for tactical rifle.

Sure guys use them, and some guys, especially accomplished shooters, (Like Francis K comes to mind) like to have things a certain way, but understand the limitations. They are willing to accept the drawbacks to have a super light trigger, which usually means a Jewell. That still doesn't make it practical for the majority. Like in NASCAR some drivers prefer a loose driving race car to a one a bit on the tighter side. I would not compete or even use a Trigger like Francis K Does.. his are set in the ounces. Next time you're around him ask him if you can dry fire it.

The point of the matter is just that, across the board, majority response, etc, When you look at the big picture its an accident waiting to happen. if you are aware of this and are willing to accept the liability and compromise knowing it's got a better chance of going south, then that is on the individual. But if you are starting out, having a rifle built, just defaulting to Jewel is a bad idea.
 
This has been addressed before.
blown primers breaking the trigger, dirt, bla, bla, bla,
A.J. responded in a previous thread. If it didn't fail for him, it's
operator error, lack of maint. If you NEVER clean your shit, too hot
a load, look at something else. It is never NOT dusty, windy in Colo.
N.M. and Wyo. Never had a problem.

I have had two Jewel related issues during a match. (the first one may have been PM related, material building up over time and not being cleaned) This last one though was purely from shooting in a sand storm. I switched to a different trigger for awhile after the first problem I had, but none have held a candle to how the Jewels feel when working properly though. (I have recently been told that the Shilen triggers are very nice and have less issues running dirty, I have two on order)

I will say this, we shot the New Mexico match this last weekend and no amount of "PM'ing" would have saved you from having issues. My trigger didn't completely fail or give me any ND situations, but several times it failed to reset and I had to open close the bolt several times before it caught, firing pin wasn't dropping hard enough to detonate the primer, but it did make me nervous. Here are some pics when I got home cleaning the rifle all of what you see is from one match. There was alot of trigger issues at that match, broken bolts, pistols gummed up....pretty nasty conditions.









After cleaning.
 
A question was asked about the or a great BOLT ACTION TRIGGER. What would be called a truly great "Tactical" trigger for a Rem700/clone? I want an answer damnit.


I would say a Jewel, just know that you need to clean it and if you are shooting in with your rifle covered in dirt/sand you may have a problem and you need to clean that shit...keep some lighter fluid on hand for field cleaning purposes!

I am going to give the Shilen units a run and see how they are, I got that tip from a respected source, so I am going to give them a try. I tried Timney and I am not going to badmouth them because I have shot other people's rifle that they worked great and felt great in, but the one I had was no bueno, from the start it didn't seem to feel consistent between trigger pulls, one time it was crisp and the next time felt like a "tractor pull" I built two rifles for my employees and put Timneys in both those rifles and they felt great and seem the same every time, but mine was a lemon.

So my experience (for what its worth) I have shot factory, Timney, and Jewel, and far and away like the Jewels the best, soon to test the Shilen and see how that goes. Good luck
 
OK, what about a trigger that is the least likely to fail? No trigger breaks like a jewel. I know tht because I've had several and still have 2 in some safe queens but the rifles that get used don't have them anymore. I've had 3 go out on me so I'm wondering what is most likely to work all the time and still feel halfway decent? I'm using GAP tuned X-Mark pros right now in several rifles and love them. My custom hunting rifles have tuned old style remmys that are awesome. I have felt Huber, I have Timneys, and had a Rifle Basix
 
In Western Oklahoma, we have the red blowing sand that gets into everything. I had a Jewel installed on a rifle on the smith's recomendation and the predicable result happed in this environment. I never did really care for the feel of the Jewel. It can be adjusted very light but that seemed to be the only good thing about it. It was nothing like a crisp release. It had a very soft, vague release.

Fortunately I am a Win/FN 70 fanatic and they have a beautifully simple trigger design. A little polishing of the contact faces, a lighter trigger spring, and careful adjustment and it is excellent. Sold the Jewel and never happier. I do have a Timney on another 70 and it is slightly better than my tuned factory trigger, but not enough to justify the price (came with the rifle bought used.) Either one of them leave the Jewel in the dust though, literally!
 
What triggers are BEST suited for tactical rifles or for rifles used in dusty/dirty environments??
If Jewell isn't a tactical trigger, which trigger would you all suggest?
What would be called a truly great "Tactical" trigger for a Rem700/clone? I want an answer damnit.

You're pretty vocal against Jewell, Lowlight, so how about an equally passionate opinion for something that's 'better' for what the match shooters do.

What's the goal again? If it's 100% reliability in every environment possible, for every contingency, then that's foolish. It'll never happen.
It is perhaps entirely possible that what these 'Precision Rifle' match shooters want/need is not really 'tactical' by other people's definition.

These 18lb aluminum chassised, 6mm/6.5mm, 30" SS barreled rifles aren't really a 'tactical rifles.' They're match rifles, toys and safe queens. That said, I do wonder how all these consumer rifles compare to bone fide service rifles in terms of accuracy, ruggedness and reliability given similar use in similar environments. I sense there's an expectation of perfection that's just not rational. People have been surfing the internet and watching hollywood movies too much.
 
I run tuned Rem 700 triggers in my match rifles and never had a hicup in rain, snow, sand, dirt and dust. My .308 trigger is the original trigger from my 1993 700VS.
 
Rob, I've helped RO a couple of the SHTRC matches you've attended in NM (pretty sure at least). Have you shot in a 60mph gusting haboob at Zia lying on bare dry sand? lol. If you didn't have trigger troubles, I bet you would have other sand-related issues.

Right, but none of these or any others I've seen talk about the A.D. I described... The rifles didn't completely stop working or have parts break, they fired when the bolt was being lifted which can be deadly to the shooter if the bolt comes up far enough.

You can mis-adjust a Jewell's overtravel such that the trigger 'breaks,' but won't fully disengage the sear. Touching/moving the bolt will let the cocking piece/firing pin drop and you'll get your AD. If it gets some extra debris in there, then yes, you can get the behaviour you're describing. As for being a deadly liability, after a little rotation of a Rem 700 or clone bolt body, in good mechanical working order, the cocking piece will hit the cocking ramp and prevent the pin from hitting the primer. It would be difficult to get the pin to hit a primer with the bolt lugs significantly out of battery to injure the shooter.
 
Jewells are not field worthy by any stretch of the imagination. They are an accident waiting to happen.

Seen it far too often, especially in rain...

Note bold text.

This has been my experience with Jewells in an FN SPR, and later with another in a Badger action.

One wouldn't release when I pulled trigger, but fired when I touched the bolt. Luckily my shot hit the target so I wasn't DQ'd from the match. The other simply would NOT release. Both failures were in the rain. Both became happy again once it dried out.

I've no use for a Jewell in a field rifle. Plus, I hate the vague and mushy release feeling they have when turned up to practical release weights of ~2lb+.
 
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I have shot a match with lowlite in eastern Colorado in 40-60 mph blowing
everything. If the match didn't get cancelled after one station, I'm sure something
on my rig would have locked. Maybe galled lugs, scratched scope. Yeah, my pos
Jewell was gritty and needed cleaning. My retina was scratched too!
It's just a sport, a game. Ain't nobody shooting back. My life doesn't
Depend on it.come on guys.it's for fun right? I take care of my shit, if it
gets dirty I clean it. I've seen some lugs galled on a grit filled action after
a nasty match. That guys trigger was the least of his concerns.
 
If Jewell isn't a tactical trigger, which trigger would you all suggest? I'm asking because I have a Jewell on my Surgeon actioned .308 that I've re-stocked and re-barrelled from a bench gun to a hunting/tactical rifle. While I've never had any issues with my Jewell and love how it feels, I plan to spend a lot more time in the field with it and should it ever go down, I'd like to know what to replace it with.
An AI trigger. Of course, there is only one way to get one of those...
 
Take any close fitting mechanism with multiple precision fitted moving parts with narrow tolerances encased with little clearance, add dirt, and you will have a problem.
Some triggers are designed around ingesting dirt and abuse while others are like a wristwatch and will choke if treated harshly.

Shop accordingly.