Looking for a new ar15 and trying to decide between a JP and LMT although I don’t know a lot about either. I like JPs sci-20 and LMTs New Zealand reference rifle. Don’t really want to spend over 3k though so it seems to rule out JP. So I guess my question really is, is JP a lot better? What do you guys prefer? Also, any other ar’s you guys like around that 2500 mark?
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JP or LMT
- Thread starter COHotshots
- Start date
For a small frame AR, save the money and buy a SR15.
Of the two for large frame, I would take a LMT.
JP are game guns; LMT and KAC are combat proven beyond reproach.
Of the two for large frame, I would take a LMT.
JP are game guns; LMT and KAC are combat proven beyond reproach.
I called a hide vendor and I asked is the JP more of a precision range gun or will it hang in the field. I told them I’d been waiting on the scar 20s and i was told the scar would be a better field rifle then the JP. I want something that’ll do both, not sure if I got the real scoop but that’s what I was told. They also said they’d pick the JP over the scar that it was a really nice rifle. So here I sit flipping coins, which way do I go?
What do you want to do with it? For just about every purpose, I would lean towards LMT. If you want a specialized game gun, perhaps JP... but probably LMT.
My JP is incredible as a precision semi auto.
My LMT MRP SLK8 with their 16” SS barrel is an absolute laser with 77gr SMKs (defender, colt, and federal).
Zero issues of reliability. The caliber swap/barrel removal feature is awesome for maintenance and quick swaps. The monolithic rail makes optic too easy to run and there’s zero flex.
I had a SCAR16 and dumped that thing as fast as I could. Actually traded it for the LMT and couldn’t be happier.
V1Tactical has some great prices so check them out before you buy. I’ve never ordered through them but I haven’t heard anything bad.
Zero issues of reliability. The caliber swap/barrel removal feature is awesome for maintenance and quick swaps. The monolithic rail makes optic too easy to run and there’s zero flex.
I had a SCAR16 and dumped that thing as fast as I could. Actually traded it for the LMT and couldn’t be happier.
V1Tactical has some great prices so check them out before you buy. I’ve never ordered through them but I haven’t heard anything bad.
OP, they are two separate classes of guns. JP is a fully customized precision rifle. LMT/KAC are war rifles. Unless you are going to war, save up and get the customized precision rifle.
There are plenty of posters who will vouch for the reliability of a JP rifle on here, just ask around. There is also a torture test and youtube reviews of their rifles.
There is a hide member selling their 223 JP for 2500.
www.snipershide.com
There are plenty of posters who will vouch for the reliability of a JP rifle on here, just ask around. There is also a torture test and youtube reviews of their rifles.
There is a hide member selling their 223 JP for 2500.
Firearms - <<SOLD>> JP Rifles CTR-02 .223 with presentation grade finish
JP CTR-02 .223 with presentation grade finish 500 rounds fired only FGMM 77gr. Presentation grade finish 20” Barrel Standard-Profile Compensator Magpul PRS stock Thermal Dissipator: Blue Rifle Length Rapid Configuration Tube Shoots .5 MOA or one ragged hole! Original box and manual included...
www.snipershide.com
Yeah not looking to do any competitions or stuff like that. Target shooting, varmites, and for. Want accuracy, reliability, durability. It’s an ar so it needs to be able to handle a lot of rounds. I don’t want to spend 2500-3k on a rifle that isn’t that either. Also I do plan eventually attaching a suppressor probably a tbac
I don't have experience with full on JP rifles but I do run their silent captures and love them. I run a law folder on my. 300 BO 10.5 pistol and the JP law adapter kit and its great too.
I'll also add that in my book cans are a must on ARs for me. Suppressed is the only way I shoot my ARs.
Good luck either way. If you're not looking for the absolute rugged of a proven battle rifle you can build your own that would fulfill the needs you've listed for less than $2500 for sure and use those funds for a suppressor (or 2 or 3 lol).
Home builds with the right parts can for sure be 1moa guns with good factory ammo and <1moa with handloads.
I'll also add that in my book cans are a must on ARs for me. Suppressed is the only way I shoot my ARs.
Good luck either way. If you're not looking for the absolute rugged of a proven battle rifle you can build your own that would fulfill the needs you've listed for less than $2500 for sure and use those funds for a suppressor (or 2 or 3 lol).
Home builds with the right parts can for sure be 1moa guns with good factory ammo and <1moa with handloads.
For tactical type shooting the LMT MARS MLOC rifle is probably your best choice for a feature rich gun. V1 had them for 1700 before the panic. The New Zealand rifle has a short picatinny rail and dumb features like a bayonet mount theres no reason to pay extra for.
For high precision, sorry, the JP rifle shoots way smoother and would probably serve your described needs better. Everyone says they need battle proven, 100% reliable in all conditions but for some reason the range is always empty when its 40 degrees and raining, or 98 with 90% humidity and no ones out there going prone without a shooting mat...
My JP rifle has been equally reliable as my other guns, and more so than my KAC, which will not run lower powered ammo. Granted the JP benefits from being able to turn up the gas, the KAC not so much. KAC does shine on full powered loads, and over powered shit like A1.
For high precision, sorry, the JP rifle shoots way smoother and would probably serve your described needs better. Everyone says they need battle proven, 100% reliable in all conditions but for some reason the range is always empty when its 40 degrees and raining, or 98 with 90% humidity and no ones out there going prone without a shooting mat...
My JP rifle has been equally reliable as my other guns, and more so than my KAC, which will not run lower powered ammo. Granted the JP benefits from being able to turn up the gas, the KAC not so much. KAC does shine on full powered loads, and over powered shit like A1.
LOL
Battle proven by 300 pounders in spandex moving the gun from the case to a barrel and back to a case.
KAC are designed to shoot full power issue mil ammo. They don't have an adjustable gas block.
Its also why there are much more reliable than a JP gasser.
I hear people complaining about KAC but I have shot cases and cases of wolf/tula through multiple SR15's and 25's and no issues with reliability.
Having shot them all, the LMT gives up little to the JP in the accuracy department when using a comparable barrel. Its also considerably cheaper than the SR25 and JP. AND you get quick change, inexpensive barrels.
Nothing touches a SR15 when you factor in quality, reliability, features, durability and value. Bolt and gas system are perfection.
If ultimate precision is your goal, the LPR is an easy choice. KAC quality and reliability with a Kreiger barrel.
do you even 3 gun bro? that's the stupidest sh1t i've ever heard. perhaps you forgot the sarcasm emoji.
JP has been having accuracy issues of late. At least, that’s my experience. Personally, I’d stay away if precision is a primary goal.
3 gun is among the most homo of shorting sports. Not realistic whatsoever in both gear and actual shooting engagements. Spandex jerseys galore, overweight middleaged accountants and never ending gear race to cheat the game. Its pathetic and lame.
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The fact that you consider a 2 or 3 gun shoot comparable to a gun that lives in warzones is whats truly funny.
Yes, civilians definitely need that warzone reliability for all those warzone laden fud dreams.
Is there proof of this? If so please post it or the statement holds no water.
I knew this was going to be a controversial topic haha. How does the KAC LPR shoot? Suppressed? I don’t need a full on battle rifle but I definitely don’t want it to malfunction because of some dirt or water. It’s going to get a little dirty for sure.
One thing about JP, get a FMOS HP BCG for reliability. LMOS BCG are for fun and games.
Yeah sure KAC is a good value back when it was 2150 for a full rifle and you could sell the sights.
definitely don’t believe they all run Tula from what I’ve seen...
doubtful that you’ll find that now or the lmt for 1700. Get whichever you get the better deal on, the difference isn’t so great. You could always covert a jp barrel or a compass lake barrel to the lmt mrp system and uave
definitely don’t believe they all run Tula from what I’ve seen...
doubtful that you’ll find that now or the lmt for 1700. Get whichever you get the better deal on, the difference isn’t so great. You could always covert a jp barrel or a compass lake barrel to the lmt mrp system and uave
My JP CTR02 Has been 100 percent reliable over 3,000 rounds. When you tune the gas correctly, you can watch your own trace out past 600m accurately and still shred really fast up close. Sure it does t have an ejection port cover, so running out the back of a helicopter with the gas set super low could maybe lead to some issues, but that’s not what I’m doing with the gun.
it goes to the range every time, where as my HK416 and MCX barely make it out.
it goes to the range every time, where as my HK416 and MCX barely make it out.
If it is the end of the world, I am grabbing my JP and a spare bolt.
Also very happy with my JP, buy with confidence IMHO.
Anyway, I'm sure the top sponsored gun gamers with tens of thousands of rounds down range every year on JP's and near unlimited rifle spending budgets are fine with running guns that are not reliable or not accurate. Oh wait, that doesn't actually sound right. Hmm.
Anyway, I'm sure the top sponsored gun gamers with tens of thousands of rounds down range every year on JP's and near unlimited rifle spending budgets are fine with running guns that are not reliable or not accurate. Oh wait, that doesn't actually sound right. Hmm.
The new LRI-20 might be up your alley, its JP, semi-monolithic, has a dust cover mount, non-reciprocating side charger (never gas in your face). Definitely bad ass. If your not buying the rifle for the LARP factor. I'd go JP.
The LMT is over gassed when suppressed from the factory or so I have been told. The quick change barrels are a major factor, however. Riverbed custom, run by a smith from GAP can spin you a bartlein or whatever you want for your LMT as long as you send them an extension. Might be an another alternative, since suppressed your going to be running a full weight carrier, (some of the smoothness you would have gained with the JP is lost right there), get an AGB, and you could run a silent capture set-up in the LMT. So you could have match grade accuracy in a battle proven chassis.
The LMT is over gassed when suppressed from the factory or so I have been told. The quick change barrels are a major factor, however. Riverbed custom, run by a smith from GAP can spin you a bartlein or whatever you want for your LMT as long as you send them an extension. Might be an another alternative, since suppressed your going to be running a full weight carrier, (some of the smoothness you would have gained with the JP is lost right there), get an AGB, and you could run a silent capture set-up in the LMT. So you could have match grade accuracy in a battle proven chassis.
Spot on. Bet Mr. Spandex run time for the 1.5 mile is north of 13 min.
$20 your from MD. You seem like an opinionated dick. I like it. PM sometime you're probably local.
13 min is generous, that dude looks like 15-20 minute plus kind of guy, with coronaries like a 100 y/o frat house drain....his HR is probably 150 in that picture.
I was going to make a joke about Army 2 miler being superior but then the Marines would make fun of me cuz 3 miles is more better
Last SR15 I bought was a Mod 1, so a few years ago. I think it was right around 2K at the time, with a healthy wait time. I would never sell the sights, they are the best BUIS out there hands down. Have them on a bunch of non KAC guns as well.
The New Zealand Reference guns are super nice for the money. The MARS lower is comparable to the SR15 and other than the gas system and bolt, it doesn't give up much to the SR.
He could piece together a BCM or Colt gun much cheaper and end up with something very reliable and durable. Once you go above the $1500 mark, I just don't see anything out there better than the SR15. Precision wise, the LPR.
I would like to pick up a few Mod 2's but the price has gotten up there. I have a early Mod 0 thats still my primary rifle. Well over 15k through it and have not had one malfunction except bad mag/ammo. Half that round count is wolf and tula in classes. Maybe I got lucky.
Have heard other people say their SR's won't shoot underpowered imports but all the guns I have seen first hand eat it and ask for more. Makes me wonder if they are using shitty mags or not lubing their gun correctly.
I'll back up my claim that JP accuracy has suffered with my experience. Before I do that, I have to say I was (and still am) a JP fanboy. Virtually every rifle I own uses an SCS, JP BCG, and JP Handguard. I love most of their products, and I'm a big fan of John the person and his entire organization.
I own 4 JP rifles, 3 in .223 and one in 9mm. One of the .223's is very good. It took about 3x as much work to come up with a good load for it compared to several WOA barreled rifles I own, but once that was complete it's been a fantastic rifle. It's basically a 1/2 minute gun. It's dead reliable and the fit and finish was superb. It's perhaps the best rifle I own. The 9mm is also good. It's shooting into 2" at 100 with a red dot.
The other two .223 rifles suck for accuracy. On both I went to great lengths to try to work up loads that would work in them. Great lengths. Many bullets and powders tested, several emails back and forth with John Paul, etc. In both, the best accuracy I could manage was about 1 1/4 minute. The newest one (14.5" barrel, pinned brake) was so bad I sent it back to JP. They re-barreled it at their expense. The new barrel shot exactly the same as the original. I did some side by side comparison testing against a WOA barreled rifle I put together years ago that has probably 3K rounds down it. I put approximately 10 different loads through both guns, some handloads, some factory. The groups from the WOA were consistently 1/2 the size of the groups from the JP. I finally gave up about 6 months ago and rebarreled it with a Bartlien that the guys at Compass Lake spun up for me.
In addition, a shooting buddy here bought a Valk upper from them about 18 months ago. I'm not as familiar with the details of his story, but the trajectory is the same. He's rebarreling it after sending it back to JP.
I love JP and I hope they solve their problems, but I won't buy another until I have some confidence that they have figured out how to make accurate barrels again. Disclaimer #1: My last barrel from them was about a year ago. The situation may be different now. Disclaimer #2: It's entirely possible I had a run of bad luck with them that is not representative of others' experience. Take from my experience what you will.
I own 4 JP rifles, 3 in .223 and one in 9mm. One of the .223's is very good. It took about 3x as much work to come up with a good load for it compared to several WOA barreled rifles I own, but once that was complete it's been a fantastic rifle. It's basically a 1/2 minute gun. It's dead reliable and the fit and finish was superb. It's perhaps the best rifle I own. The 9mm is also good. It's shooting into 2" at 100 with a red dot.
The other two .223 rifles suck for accuracy. On both I went to great lengths to try to work up loads that would work in them. Great lengths. Many bullets and powders tested, several emails back and forth with John Paul, etc. In both, the best accuracy I could manage was about 1 1/4 minute. The newest one (14.5" barrel, pinned brake) was so bad I sent it back to JP. They re-barreled it at their expense. The new barrel shot exactly the same as the original. I did some side by side comparison testing against a WOA barreled rifle I put together years ago that has probably 3K rounds down it. I put approximately 10 different loads through both guns, some handloads, some factory. The groups from the WOA were consistently 1/2 the size of the groups from the JP. I finally gave up about 6 months ago and rebarreled it with a Bartlien that the guys at Compass Lake spun up for me.
In addition, a shooting buddy here bought a Valk upper from them about 18 months ago. I'm not as familiar with the details of his story, but the trajectory is the same. He's rebarreling it after sending it back to JP.
I love JP and I hope they solve their problems, but I won't buy another until I have some confidence that they have figured out how to make accurate barrels again. Disclaimer #1: My last barrel from them was about a year ago. The situation may be different now. Disclaimer #2: It's entirely possible I had a run of bad luck with them that is not representative of others' experience. Take from my experience what you will.
Like the disclaimers but this is anecdotal. LMT sent my buddies dad a smooth bored barrel. Also had multiple LMT product issues which led to the local gun store to stop carrying their products. That doesn't change my thoughts on LMT as a premiere rifle manufacturer as those cases were anecdotal and not wide spread.
It is good to note and to watch for future cases and maybe this becomes a trend. It would be unfortunate given the premium that is paid for their rifles.
Not trying to high jack the OP's thread but I have a CZ527 that was sent back and I wish I had checked serial numbers because its still 1.5" rifle at 100y. I have tried eveything I can think of and I will probably just spend the money to re barrel because CZ wont touch it after I threaded the end for a suppressor. Sucks, but I got a lemon and I know what its like to be the odd duck with a quality company.
I agree on large frame LMT and KAC although I think the 5.56 platform is a wash. Of course there is Colt but higher end, these are really the only 2 imho
smooth bore....wow, that has to be a first as I don't think I've ever heard of that.
agree, stuff happens to everyone, some more than others (psa)
Yeah, I really like the kac sr15 and lrp. I’ll probably go with one of those and save $500+ from a JP. I really want a large frame just not ready to drop 4500 or so. Based on everyone’s opinion seems like I’ll be happy with the reliability and accuracy even when running suppressed.
You might have to wait awhile with LMT, V1 tactical has them pushed back with their reserve spots. I also believe JP runs a discount once a year but someone else would have to confirm that. LMT is probably the better choice for what you are looking for.
Check out the EE on here, good deals to be had with no taxes.
unless you're looking for new prices the LMT specifically in MWS . 308 can be found 2k-2500 today (6.5 maybe a few hundo more), KAC you are likely in the 4k plus range. You will see some in the 3-4k range which is crazy but Ive seen quite a few here and elsewhere in the 2200-2500 range lately some with accessories. Great rifles though, I run mine 100% suppressed and have now had a few LMTs with no issues. The option to change barrels on the LMT was a huge plus for me on both the MWS and MRP. Ive had one JP LRP-07 and while its felt very nice and was accurate it just didn't feel like the LMT, nothing against but the LMT just fit my usage and needs more. I noticed no drop off in accuracy with the LMT compared to JP suppressed or not, like other mentioned both are great proven platforms, pick your important features and roll with it!
I was recently able to piece together a full 6.5CM LMT MWS build (Just waiting for barrel from V1) for around $3K. It can be done you just need to hunt parts and some such as the BCG and MARS H lower can be hard to find.
Best bet is to order everything from V1 and just wait for it to come in.
There is also a 308 on the PX for around $2700 with 2 barrels. Could buy that sell both barrels and order a 6.5CM barrel for less than $3k out of pocket.
Same here. Though I've never had any malfunctions with Precision JP - I can't say for sure if I would take it into combat over my SCAR-16 or my LMT monolithic piston upper AR. For one, it's a lot heavier than either with the 18" stainless bull barrel. But if I had the luxury of sitting up high somewhere and whacking stuff at long range - the JP wouldn't even have moment's hesitation.
Also note that JP also makes "patrol" rifles, which are different than their all out precision rifles. So that may be a consideration. I am partial to piston guns though, for general purpose use. So again I would likely choose either of my SBR pistons (LMT or SCAR) for "field" work.
I replied above before I read this post. If this is your design parameters, then IMHO the JP hands down. As I said in the post above, I own 2 LMTs (one piston, one DI) and a SCAR. I shoot all three suppressed. All three shoot amazingly well and I love them all. But if accuracy, especially @ longer range is your primary goal - then the JP is by far the better choice. Whacking a 1 moa steel swinger at 800 yds is fun with a .223 when others next to you are struggling to hit it with their 300 Win Mags.
One thing to add is that if you're on a budget and don't want to shell out for a full JP or other brand name complete rifle - don't be afraid to start with a JP barrel and JP headspaced Bolt (and/or BCG). That's going to be the core of your accuracy there. The upper and lower, while not inconsequential, are not going to make a massive difference as long as they are decent quality. Especially the lower. Get a good trigger though. But you could easily save over $1000 on a build by going with other components such as Aero Precision, BCM, LMT, etc uppers/lowers/handguards, etc and then building around the barrel.
For instance, for my precsion franken build I have an LMT Lower with an LMT NM 2-stage trigger, a Larue upper, a Magpul PRS stock and the JP Barrel and BCG. I can't remember the Handguard maker, but they are one of the ones who do a MK-12 Mod 0 handguard copy. The whole package is a 1/3 MOA shooter when I do my part. WAAAY cheaper than buying a complete rifle.
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I’ve been back and forth on doing a build. Everyone says you can save a lot and get a great rifle in the end which definitely seems to be the case. But with so much variability in the ar market, the negative is trying to mix match parts making sure everything is compatible. Maybe in the somewhat near future I’ll post a parts list and have y’all comment on it.
If its an AR-15 build, I would say, with few exceptions, that pretty much everything is compatible due to mil-spec standards. About the only issue is the large pin vs small pin lowers. But I think that is mainly a Colt specific issue. Not 100% sure on that. So I would look for quality components and not worry about it.
However, if its a large frame upper - that is when parts become much less standardized and you need to be more careful in part selection. You can still do a build and end up with a fantastic rifle. But it's not quite as "mix and match" easy as it is with an AR-15 pattern.
Everything may Fit/Mash together but not everything will function correctly. There is ALOT more too it and at the end of the day, you can put full confidence in a quality factory gun for hard use.
Hard to beat a factory KAC (on the high end) or Colt (On the low end) for a hard use gun that will go bang every time.
When you see the amount of homebuild guns that go down in high volume/temp classes vs quality factory guns, its hard to dispute.
My JP-15 .223 Wylde 16" upper works great on my mish-mash number of lowers (whether Noveske, Aero, or BCM lowers). Easy and consistent sub-0.5MOA with good ammo, including FGMM 69gr SMK or Hornady Black 75gr BTHP. Easily makes hits out to 700+ yards with a good optic on top.
If you want a smooth shooting precision AR, it's hard to beat a tuned adjustable gas block, light BCG, and SCS buffer. Properly tuned, the reticle won't move off target, and will still lock back every time on an empty magazine.
The reason those "duty" rifles are more "reliable" is because they are overgassed and will cycle practically anything. Open up the adjustable gas block, and the JP will do the exact same.
If you want to save some dollars, put the lower together yourself, and buy an 18" upper from the JP "Rifle Ready" program as a drop-in. It'll save you at least $500-1000.
If you want a smooth shooting precision AR, it's hard to beat a tuned adjustable gas block, light BCG, and SCS buffer. Properly tuned, the reticle won't move off target, and will still lock back every time on an empty magazine.
The reason those "duty" rifles are more "reliable" is because they are overgassed and will cycle practically anything. Open up the adjustable gas block, and the JP will do the exact same.
If you want to save some dollars, put the lower together yourself, and buy an 18" upper from the JP "Rifle Ready" program as a drop-in. It'll save you at least $500-1000.
