Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

[Foul Mike]

I hope some of the LEOs that have dogs can answer some questions for me.
I was in the jury for a pot hauling case a while back.
Although I did believe the defendant guilty, two LEOs were called to testify and their stories did not fit together in too many ways as to not bring on reasonable doubt.
The defense attorney sent one out of court while the other testified, then brought in the other one so we could hear his story.
Damn guys, don't you talk these things over before court time?
Their testimony didn't fit, they were all over the place, so the defendant walked. Reasonable doubt.
As to the nose on a drug dog, I cam see where a dog would smell a large quantity of pot at an intersection, cars stopped waiting on a traffic light and windows down. I think I could smell that.
Can dogs detect a large haul going down the interstate if the windows of the cop car are down a couple of inches and the hauler goes by in the next lane with the breeze blowing toward the dog's car?
Is that enough to put him on alert? or does the turbulence from the cars take enough scent away that it is no good, say it was one car that passed.
I know dogs have a super sense of smell and have wondered about this.
Regards, FM

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

the dogs might smell it going by, but couldn't really alert on a vehicle going by, therefor no PC for a search.

 

[jericho]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Planning a trip to Mexico?😉lol

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

The dog might get a whiff if all the cards lined up and the breeze was blowing the right way. It's called "air scenting". Its a stretch but stranger things have happened. Even if the dog did catch "wind" of it most dogs I've known are trained to indicate on drugs in a passive manner, meaning they sit or lay down. This lets the handler know to investigate further and its done this way to minimize the risk of the dog ingesting or tampering with any possible evidence.

It would be kinda hard for the handler to notice this while he is operating his radio car down the highway as his dog sits behind him. And even then, I don't think that he would have enough probable cause to effect a stop.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

It was one car that went by and the LEO followed until he saw an infraction, or created one, and pulled them over.
They got a conviction on the driver, but things weren't right on the passenger.
I had trouble with the fact that the DA brought charges and wasted all of the court time, as well as the juries time on this thing.
I have wondered if the LEOs knew their shit was weak and/or didn't want to press the thing and wanted to let the guy go.
Anyway, the guy walked and so far as I know nothing else was ever said.
Regards, FM
PS I wish I had never been called to jury duty for something like this, but did listen to everything presented, and came away wondering how something like this would ever get on the docket.
I think maybe LEO was doing some thinking. I hope so.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Been summoned many times, but never sat on a jury. As soon as a defense attorney learns you are AD/retired military, you are dismissed.

 

[wadevb1]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

I was assigned to a drug team for three years and travelled several states with the DEA. I've seen my share of dope dogs running scenes. I personally seen a dog hit on a single roach from outside the vehicle and I seen a dog walk right past a duffle bag containing seven pounds of weed.

In a case you doubt the officers, I would be more concerned with the officers story being a carbon copy, not different. Ask a group of witnesses that saw the same incident and there will be differences within their story.

Sounds to me that you had more than reasonable doubt the guy was guilty, but let the munutia get in the way. Attorneys make a living doing that.No big deal....Dopers revert to the same behavior and there will be a next time.

If there was a actual problem with the stop, that would've been addressed in a motion well before it went to a jury trial. That tells me the stop was legal, but the attorney will still use smoke and mirrors.

 

[leagle2]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

One man's "smoke and mirrors" is another man's reasonable doubt. Minutia doesn't get in the way. It isn't minutia when you question "Jack" and "Jill" (Jill being Jack's alibi) when, separate and apart, they tell you Jack was home, w/Jill and they were drinking beer. The stories start to unravel if one tells you they were drinking Bud and the other tells you they were drinking Coors; if one tells you it was cans and the other says bottles; if one tells you they bought a 12 pack and the other a 6 pack. The devil is in the details whether you are interrogating a suspect or cross examining an officer.
Poor trial prep by the prosecutor.

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Thank you all for your input.
Wade, we just listened to everything and looked at the evidence, what a jury is susposed to do.
The differences between the two officers testimony, backed up with the pictures the DA presented that the officers had taken made it clear as glass that something was not right.
I don't know what munutia even is but will look it up when done with this post.
As to the first post, I think you answered my question a little bit in the fact that some dogs are better than others.
I understand that as I have had hunting dogs for most of my life and know a good one from a bad or mediocre one.
That still does not answer my question.
We deliberated for 15 minutes before coming to our decision and it was done on the first vote, nobody hanging out there wondering about the evidence or presentation there of.
The prosecution was weak at best and I still wonder how this thing made it to the docket and wasted my time and everyone else's as well as a waste of our tax money.
I will now go look up munutia to see what that is, while I do that I would suggest that you check your book and see where saw and seen fit.
Regards, FM

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Try this one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minutia

 

[jcfd2201]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Not a position I would want to be in. The last time I got called for jury duty they got to the point of asking if you knew the people involved int he case. When I answered yes to over 50% of the prosecution and even the defense's investigator they excused me. 20 years in fire/ems and working with those people has some advantages.

I'm willing to bet that most of those dogs will "alert" on command from a handler, I'm okay with that though if they end result is a druggy, drugs, or dealer off the street!

 

[Foul Mike]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

These were not minute or trivial mistakes, the difference in testimonies was rather large.
Keeping in mind that this person would be doing some hard time made it important to me that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not just an open and shut case.
I was surprised to be seated on the jury as the defendant was Vietnamese and I was asked if I had bad feelings about Viets and told them that I had shot a few and trusted none.
Thanks for the link Veer, I now understand.
Regards, FM

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Look at it this way, if he was in court once he'll be back.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.
The differences between the two officers testimony, backed up with the pictures the DA presented that the officers had taken made it clear as glass that something was not right.
I don't know what munutia even is but will look it up when done with this post.
</div></div>

And that was the problem I had last time I was on jury duty. Somewhat ignorant people asked to make important decisions that could put scum back on the street or convict innocent men.

I am glad you could find something "clear as glass" since your overwhelming experience with police officers and the way that they each have perspectives on the same incidents - together with your clearly superior capacity for K9 operations - certainly informed that assertion.

You made the decision that you made. Everything that you have heard confirms the air scent potential that was presented. Yet you persist.

What is the point of this thread?

I dont like cops and you guys should go along with me in disbelieving sworn testimony in court?

These police officers are disallowed to have thier own different perspectives on the same events, and since they did not engage in witness tampering/collaboration by comparing notes on every individual item, I should feel good about letting a dirtbag go?

We should appreciate a system that accepts your duty in a capacity where you are supposed to be impartial but allow individuals that have expressed strong feelings about an entire nationalistic group of people that includes the defendant?

You made the decision that you made. That was consistent with what you believe and how you saw it. None of us were there and since you arent sharing a single actual fact, I am not sure where exactly this thread can go constructively that it has not already.

 

[old95b10]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Watch yourself!!!
Dont hate on cops just watch what you say and do around them.
Had one commit a felony trying to put me in jail. Had no case but made one up and filed false reports and such.
My case would put me down for 15 years, told the DA I did not want a deal and wanted the case to go to a jury as they should read the report filed by this officer.I went from 15 years in jail to a $250 fine and no time!!!!!!!!
Yes he lied and would have to had to gone to jail with me had they pushed it.They let it go to keep him off the stand. Yes I said that right One day I face 15 years in jail the next I pay $250 and go home???
The best part was they had to give me my old colt pistol back!

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old95b10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch yourself!!!
Dont hate on cops just watch what you say and do around them.
Had one commit a felony trying to put me in jail. Had no case but made one up and filed false reports and such.
My case would put me down for 15 years, told the DA I did not want a deal and wanted the case to go to a jury as they should read the report filed by this officer.I went from 15 years in jail to a $250 fine and no time!!!!!!!!
Yes he lied and would have to had to gone to jail with me had they pushed it.They let it go to keep him off the stand. Yes I said that right One day I face 15 years in jail the next I pay $250 and go home???
The best part was they had to give me my old colt pistol back!</div></div>

And I am sure the fact that you were the defendant had nothing to do with you feeling that the officer was "lying" on you, right?

Since you did nothing at all wrong, that is clearly why you chose to pay $250 as a goodwill donation?

You didn't settle and wanted it to go to court, so you ended up settling anyway?

The difference between 15 yrs and $250 fine actually is a pretty common thing and whether that is a good thing depends on whether you are the guy involved.

I've seen a very similar dynamic where the officer arrested on a felony, the evidence just wasn't strong enough, and the DA went down to a peripheral misdemeanor. Happens more than you think.

Doesn't really tell me anything about the veracity of the officer other than the DA didn't think the evidence was there and worth the time of his office. The fact that you were fined at all tells me you did something you aren't proud of. My experience, given your position and the case disposition as related by you, tells me you may remember things differently than might an independent observer, as well.

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

I throw my jury notices in the trash.

 

[old95b10]

Re: Jury duty and drug dogs noses?

Oh shit the only thing that matched on the statements were the fucking names!!!!
I friggin did all I could to get it to a jury!!
I could do a better 3975 while Shitfaced!!!
My lawyer could not figure out what it was I had done wrong from one statement.
From the officer's statement He could not understand how I could even have got bail.
I'am about done with the hate thing now. and will leave this type shit alone.
You all can love or hate the system all you want. I will just back up and let it go.
Have I done wrong? yes.
Did I this time? no.