KABOOM !

#7
Re: KABOOM !

First of all, I hope you are a right handed shooter and you came out of this unscathed.

Second, and I'm sure I won't be the only person to say this, but it appears that you have had a case head separation. That indicates there are other forces at work here, other than a bad barrel extension.

Is the bore clear of obstructions? Was it prior to firing?

Is this a first time fire of the rifle?

Honestly, IMO, it looks like it was either over-pressurized, not headspaced correctly, or there is a barrel obstruction.
 
#8
Re: KABOOM !

WOW! That's the first time I've seen that. Usually the lugs break off the bolt or the carrier splits. You can see the brass stuck in the chamber and on the face of the bolt though. I think it's a case head failure.

What's the make on the upper? With factory ammo, you should be able to talk to winchester about it.


Edit: I do find it very interesting how clean everything looks. I would think that the case inside would be way dirtier. Maybe it was a detonation due to a very small charge.
 
#10
Re: KABOOM !

I've never seen the whole barrel extension missing.I'd like to see that barrel out of the upper. Wow-somebody had better go buy a few lottery tickets.

Looks like the bolt was in battery, I guess the barrel extension is somewhere in the stock
shocked.gif
 
#11
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you shot the back of a squib round. Hope you're ok. </div></div>

That was my initial thought as well. I'd be interested to see if the barrel has an obstruction or is clear.
 
#12
Re: KABOOM !

Barrel is clear no obstruction no squids .gun has 2000 rounds threw it.I never seen a barrel extension break.

This is my friends weapon a Local LEO he is shook up for sure.

Weapon has been threw two diffrent class's no malfunctions ever till this..
 
#13
Re: KABOOM !

Wow. Is the LEO ok?

I would think to separate the barrel extension from the barrel, the bolt would have to be in the locked position and an excessively high pressure applied. Naturally, when the first thing that comes to mind is excessive pressure, firing into the back of a squib comes to mind, as well as a hot load. However, that type of case head separation is usually associated with bad headspacing.

I'm somewhat surprised to hear there are no obstructions in the barrel. Looking down the barrel, are there any buldges or unusual striations indicating that a squib had been fired into, and that both projectiles exited the muzzle?

 
#14
Re: KABOOM !

The case head is welded to the bolt face.It was in lock up for sure when it blew,There was a peace of brass that's missing the neck and strech.
This must be the one that was before the one thats still in the chaimber,I see no buldge spots or obstructions.

We can take it apart and see for sure if there are buldges.

LEO is fine exept for being upset with the down duty weapon.
 
#15
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The case head is welded to the bolt face.It was in lock up for sure when it blew,There was a peace of brass that's missing the neck and strech.
This must be the one that was before the one thats still in the chaimber</div></div>

I don't quite understand this. Can you clarify? From my take, it seems that there may be a piece of brass left in the chamber from a previously fired round? Is that correct?
 
#16
Re: KABOOM !

I would avoid taking it apart. Just in case Winchester or RRA wants to inspect it.

EDIT: You don't want to be accused of tampering with it and consequently get no help from the MFGs when it comes time to replace/repair the weapon.
 
#17
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The case head is welded to the bolt face.It was in lock up for sure when it blew,There was a peace of brass that's missing the neck and strech.
This must be the one that was before the one thats still in the chaimber</div></div>

I don't quite understand this. Can you clarify? From my take, it seems that there may be a piece of brass left in the chamber from a previously fired round? Is that correct? </div></div>

the round is the same lenght,but blown to the chaimber with excssive head space.looks like the neck is missing .This must the round that it broke the extension on,then the next round did it in.
He said every round hit the berm so no squib rounds.

This is not a factory gun,thr barrel is a black hole barrel and the head space was check and in speck.
I am on a phone and doing the best I can with these tiny buttons so overlook the grammer ..
 
#18
Re: KABOOM !

No worries on the grammar! I'm on a couple different kinds of pain killers for an ankle surgery I had a couple days ago.

Well, is there any chance that the previous round may have left the neck in the chamber and thus either threw off the headspace or came in contact with the projectile and over pressurized the round?

Have you been able to extract the remainder of the case from the chamber? That may tell part of the story too.
 
#20
Re: KABOOM !

If the previous round left the neck in the chamber, that also would cause an extreme pressure situation.

If that's the case, I'm surprised the next round chambered without any issues. Was this round forced into battery? (Forward assist.)
 
#23
Re: KABOOM !

The fired cases are fine exept 2 ,one that fired what looks like it was out of battery over 1/4" then the next round is what you see in the gun.
The brass from the 10 rounds fired that day other than the two I speek of all are in fine head space and even chaimber in a tight head space gun I have.

I think the barrel extension was bad .

 
#25
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fired cases are fine exept 2 ,one that fired what looks like it was out of battery over 1/4" then the next round is what you see in the gun.
The brass from the 10 rounds fired that day other than the two I speek of all are in fine head space and even chaimber in a tight head space gun I have.

I think the barrel extension was bad .

</div></div>

Yeah, but you mention that the round that looks out of battery was missing a neck? Do you mean that it was out of battery enough that the the neck blew out to the shoulder area? (Leaving the case length the same as a standard trim-to length.) I've seen something like this in a bad Special Weapons HK32 that wasn't timed correctly.
 
#26
Re: KABOOM !

We had a guy that did that to his weapon. The same damn thing on a Colt select fire. The rear of the cartridge was basically welded to the boltface and pushed it back splitting the bolt carrier group in two. It warped both the upper an lower rec. I would bet that if the one casing broke apart and left debree from the casing on you bolt face, it was just enough for the bolt carrier group to close and allow the hammer to fall on the firing pin, but just enough room for the bolt face to not set flush giving you a explosion when you fired the the next round. MOST IMPORTANTLY GLAD YOUR OK
 
#29
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000 YDS. IS FUN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In picture 1. where are the locking lugs in the barrel? </div></div>

broken off and part of it is around the bolt .
 
#30
Re: KABOOM !



[/quote]

Yeah, but you mention that the round that looks out of battery was missing a neck? Do you mean that it was out of battery enough that the <span style="color: #FF9900">the neck blew out to the shoulder area? (Leaving the case length the same as a standard trim-to length.)</span> I've seen something like this in a bad Special Weapons HK32 that wasn't timed correctly. [/quote]

yes that is correct
 
#31
Re: KABOOM !

You can see the broken end of the barrel extension still behind the bolt in pic 3.
I'd guess that the barrel extension fatigued and propagated a crack.
A metal flaw may have existed or improper Alloy/heat-treating by the Mfg.

Are barrel extensions high pressure tested?
Do they MPI barrel extensions?

The barrel mfg should be able to say where the barrel extension came from.
 
#34
Re: KABOOM !

Good. Bottom line is everyone is ok. It might not had ended that way if the shooter was left handed.

If you end up getting a report of the cause of the failure, please post it. I'd be really interested to hear where the problem started.
 
#35
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one that fired what looks like it was out of battery over 1/4" </div></div>

The AR cannot "fire" OOB. Only a slam fire caused by an improperly seated primer or debris on the bolt face.
 
#37
Re: KABOOM !

I beg to differ TMK, you can test this yourself by easing the BCG forward with the charging handle with the rifle on fire and pulling the trigger continusly, the hammer will be released with the bolt still unlocked. At least it will do so on a M16-A2, there was a guy who had his rifle fire out of battery during basic, it was later determined that a combination of a dirty rifle and lack of lube caused to bolt to not fully lock into the chamber and yet still let the rifle fire.
 
#38
Re: KABOOM !

I just repaired a select fire AR that while firing a short burst, fired OOB. It blew the mag to pieces, totally shelled the extractor...multiple pieces and bent. No other damage found. I found some dried and cooked on grease or some other shit on the firing pin. I think this was caused by a combination of factors. High primer, sticky pin, dirty chamber. Since the repair, I have heard rumors of this particular manufacturer having a bad lot of extractors...too hard and cracking. Perhaps an extractor shell out helped cause this as well or perhaps it was merely damaged in the OOB.
Any thoughts from the masters would be great.
 
#39
Re: KABOOM !

Looks like an out-of-battery slam-fire.

If this occurred during full-automatic fire what chamber reamer did the gunsmith use? A rock-and-roll gun should use a military (vice .223 commercial) chamber.
 
#40
Re: KABOOM !

I'm pretty sure that the "event" caused the barrel extension to fail and separate as shown in the picture.
Now the round must have been fully chambered for the locking lugs to be engaged and they must have been engaged for the pressure to cause a tensile failure of the extension.
In pic #3 the lugs are still engaged within the "broken in half" barrel extension.

A hammer that "rides" the bolt carrier is not much of a risk of an "out of battery" because:
1) it lacks the inertia to strike the firing pin hard enough.

2) The bolt carrier is designed so that the lugs must be turned and engaged within the extension for the firing pin to have enough length just to protrude the boltface.
If the firing pin only protrudes the boltface when the lugs are engaged then this is not a concern for an OOB.
Eugene was clever and this geometry is the crux of a good, safe, bolt and carrier design.
(The length of the bolt and carrier is variable, the firing pin is not)

The AR DOES need it's firing pin cleaned but this should be a worry only if your gun autos as it would act like a fixed firing pin.

High primers are a serious concern for OOB's and slam fires.
 
#41
Re: KABOOM !

High primers or debris on the bolt face are not firing OOB they are slamfires OOB.

Just because the hammer drops does not mean firing OOB is possible. Pull your BCG and hold the firing pin forward, then push the bolt to the rear, the firing pin will not protrude from the bolt face until the lugs turn.

The rifle will not fire with a round 1/4" out of the chamber because the cam pin can't turn into it's recess until the bolt is forward.
 
#43
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He did and it's all taken Care of there at BH. Good people.. </div></div>

Sandrat just Questioned this Post and and inferred you were Two Faced.
laugh.gif


Here is where the testing was done on the barrel extension:

http://www.qnpi.com/

YOU jumped on the other thread last night with no other purpose other than to stir up shit.The above Quote was the next to last post from you then nothing more since March of this year,and all of a sudden you want to start a Dogpile ? What is up with that ?
 
#45
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why dont you step aside and let Carl BW and RCPD air it out..

You ask me to update this post and I did,now your playing...


</div></div>

No,I said you SHOULD have edited it or updated it 8 months ago if things had gone south like you claim.I speak clearly and don't stutter.I also remember what I said or wrote in the past before I try to drag someones name through the mud and harm their business.I don't play nice and then pull this sort of thing.I let people know when I have a problem with them,never have been a backstabber myself.
 
#47
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey you like carl I get it,now what are you going to do ?

Nothing.



</div></div>

^^^^^^ This......Does not make sense
confused.gif
 
#48
Re: KABOOM !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey you like carl I get it,now what are you going to do ?

Nothing.



</div></div>

^^^^^^ This......Does not make sense
confused.gif
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will Let RCPD tell what he got back and how he was treated..

taken cair of and follow threw are diffrent things all together.. </div></div>

^^^^^^ And This is what I mean by Stuttering,or a complete breakdown of your "Spell Check" system
laugh.gif
 
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