Kahles owners, your thoughts….

[18Echo]

I recently picked up a Gen 3 K624i with MSR reticle off of the PX for $1850. After receiving it and looking through it, I got to say I really like it. I know from this forum a lot of people complain about CA, but I’m not really seeing it and the glass looks really good to my eye.

So here’s the question for Kahles owners, is a used K525i off of the PX for around $2300 - 2400 worth the extra money over. $1800-1900 624i? What about the K525i DLR for around $2900 on the PX? To me the field of view increase is really minimal in real world usage…

I thought about getting another Kahles with MSR reticle, but then coordinated with Jerry at S&B USA to have two PMII’s switched out from P4FL to MSR, but I’m still tempted to get another 624i..

Your thoughts on the used prices of the Kahles in the PX versus value of the 624i, 525i, and 525i DLR?

 

[Birddog6424]

I recently picked up a Gen 3 K624i with MSR reticle off of the PX for $1850. After receiving it and looking through it, I got to say I really like it. I know from this forum a lot of people complain about CA, but I’m not really seeing it and the glass looks really good to my eye.

So here’s the question for Kahles owners, is a used K525i off of the PX for around $2300 - 2400 worth the extra money over. $1800-1900 624i? What about the K525i DLR for around $2900 on the PX? To me the field of view increase is really minimal in real world usage…

I thought about getting another Kahles with MSR reticle, but then coordinated with Jerry at S&B USA to have two PMII’s switched out from P4FL to MSR, but I’m still tempted to get another 624i..

Your thoughts on the used prices of the Kahles in the PX versus value of the 624i, 525i, and 525i DLR?

I like both the 24x and 25x. Not much different to my eye.

Chromatic aberration is in the eye of the beholder. It drives some people nuts, others don't care about it. It's usually sufficiently controlled in quality glass that it won't change how you shoot.

Field of view however is a huge "real world" characteristic. It's a big factor in effective target transition/acquisition.

 

[FuhQ]

I've had a Kahles for 15 years... Love it. It's the clearest scope I own, therefore, it sits atop my main deer rifle.

It’s not a K-Series, but it’s an old Helia KX 3.5-10x50 4D-Dot reticle.

 

[kthomas]

I love Khales. I have 3 K624's.

The Khales is a great all-around scope. It may not excel in any one category compared to other top tier scopes (except maybe tracking reliability), but it does everything very well.

I know some people complain about CA in Khales, but I've never noticed it in my scopes. Maybe it's my eyes? Maybe it's my specific scopes? IDK.

I've yet to use a K525. Toying with the idea of getting a K525 DLR for a future .22 Rim-X build.

 

[Long Range 338]

The 6-24 are quite good, I’ve not had hands on the 5-25 personally.

Being a fan of the MSR and MSR2 reticles, I wonder why you didn’t upgrade to the MSR2 in the S&B? The Kahles version of the MSR is actually different than the others because it has a center dot, the S&B has a solid center that can completely obscure small aiming points. Still a great reticle but the main drawback IMO. Also I would be very interested to know the cost to swap reticles?

 

[4O6shootist]

I have a pair of k624i, I like them quite much. I don't notice ca much. If I look hard for it, it's there, but never stands out, my eyes are less sensative to it I guess. I know the k624i has more forgiving eyebox and depth of field than the k318 and k525 I've been behind. Kahles glass has always been a step, maybe two behind the other alpha level solves. However I love the tangibles: turrets, ambi parallax, left side windage, the finish. I basically love everything external on kahles. Their reticles are quite basic, glass is decent. I had 4 k624i at one point in time but have moved a few. The skmr1 is a fantastic hunting reticle.

 

[18Echo]

The 6-24 are quite good, I’ve not had hands on the 5-25 personally.

Being a fan of the MSR and MSR2 reticles, I wonder why you didn’t upgrade to the MSR2 in the S&B? The Kahles version of the MSR is actually different than the others because it has a center dot, the S&B has a solid center that can completely obscure small aiming points. Still a great reticle but the main drawback IMO. Also I would be very interested to know the cost to swap reticles?

It is the MSR2 I’m upgrading to, I just left out the 2 in the OP! Cost was $862.98 each for MSR2 upgrade.

 

[762libertarian]

I love my k624. Shot a pig at rock throwing distance with it last week. That's what I want the extra FOV for. Yes I have other rifles and scopes that are better for close in shots, but at this time I had the rifle with the Kahles in my hands and it worked out (not the first time).

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have (2) K624i’s and wouldn’t trade them. Fantastic scope

 

[Pronghunter]

The 525i is my favorite optic to date. I have three of the 318i’s and two 525i’s. Don’t know which I like more. I’m always surprised to see the random one that falls around that $2300 mark. I have a few PMii, handful of ATACR’s and a March. Few lower ends for comparison (Mark5HD/Burris XTR3) and the Kahles is without a doubt in my mind the nicest of them all. I did have a 624 but only for a short time. Maybe 2 weeks. Not enough time to really make a judgment other than I did feel the glass was considerably nicer in the 318 and 525. I believe it’s definitely worth the extra $4-600.

 

[Schw15]

The 525i is my favorite optic to date. I have three of the 318i’s and two 525i’s. Don’t know which I like more. I’m always surprised to see the random one that falls around that $2300 mark. I have a few PMii, handful of ATACR’s and a March. Few lower ends for comparison (Mark5HD/Burris XTR3) and the Kahles is without a doubt in my mind the nicest of them all. I did have a 624 but only for a short time. Maybe 2 weeks. Not enough time to really make a judgment other than I did feel the glass was considerably nicer in the 318 and 525. I believe it’s definitely worth the extra $4-600.

Just clarifying is the 525 better glass than the 624 or is the 624 better? Also maybe you know or anyone else here it's says they have 26 mils in turret but is there more built in? I know steiner and minox says 26 mils but that's total turret travel and have like 34 mils in scope to work with.

 

[Pronghunter]

Just clarifying is the 525 better glass than the 624 or is the 624 better? Also maybe you know or anyone else here it's says they have 26 mils in turret but is there more built in? I know steiner and minox says 26 mils but that's total turret travel and have like 34 mils in scope to work with.

Yes. 318 and 525 have better glass. For me it was noticeable. As far as elevation, I can’t answer that.

 

[kthomas]

Just clarifying is the 525 better glass than the 624 or is the 624 better? Also maybe you know or anyone else here it's says they have 26 mils in turret but is there more built in? I know steiner and minox says 26 mils but that's total turret travel and have like 34 mils in scope to work with.

When it's zeroed on a 20 moa base I get about 18 mils of turret elevation with my k624's.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I have 2× K1050 for F-Class, but I bought them because of Alex Wheeler review which said that it has one of the best glass (only NF better) and perfect tracking and Cal Zant PRS optics review of K624 which has also perfect tracking, but I didn't compare them to anything...

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Seeing some of the prices on the 525i in the PX, it seems like one of the best bang for your buck scopes you can get. It's crazy what you can find one now for, compared to MSRP. I'd like to try the DLR just for the wider spaced 10 mil per revolution vs. the 16 mil per revolution on the original 525i. Not sure how much better the FOV really is real world between the two, but I'd take any extra I can get as, IMO, FOV is far more important than some other variables we consider when spec'ing out scopes. I've been happy with my 525i thus far, especially the extremely forgiving parallax. I rarely touch parallax during a stage. Even when going for 600 yards to 1475. Just don't feel the need as I don't see a huge difference is "focus" when adjusting at those distances. Closer distances, yes. But not the farther distances. I also REALLY like having the parallax on the top turret vs. the left side and having to reach over with my right hand to adjust. But, as aforementioned, I rarely have to adjust it after pre-adjusting prior to the stage.

At this point, I'd only give it up to try a ZCO or possibly an ATACR 7-35.

 

[littlepod]

Seeing some of the prices on the 525i in the PX, it seems like one of the best bang for your buck scopes you can get. It's crazy what you can find one now for, compared to MSRP. I'd like to try the DLR just for the wider spaced 10 mil per revolution vs. the 16 mil per revolution on the original 525i. Not sure how much better the FOV really is real world between the two, but I'd take any extra I can get as, IMO, FOV is far more important than some other variables we consider when spec'ing out scopes. I've been happy with my 525i thus far, especially the extremely forgiving parallax. I rarely touch parallax during a stage. Even when going for 600 yards to 1475. Just don't feel the need as I don't see a huge difference is "focus" when adjusting at those distances. Closer distances, yes. But not the farther distances. I also REALLY like having the parallax on the top turret vs. the left side and having to reach over with my right hand to adjust. But, as aforementioned, I rarely have to adjust it after pre-adjusting prior to the stage.

At this point, I'd only give it up to try a ZCO or possibly an ATACR 7-35.

Yeh the error between 600 and 1400 is pretty darn minimal - This is with the parallax set at 800.

But for rimfire, it's pretty insane the amount of error you get if you're not changing parallax from shooting something at 30y vs 100y.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Kahles are very generation and individual unit dependent. Just like Leupold. Some look great some look like shit.

I have looked through Gen 3 624 and the early 525 and the 624 looked better. Most of the really bad CA and other issues were with the Gen1/2 Kahles. The optical quality places it closer to the $2K retail range than the 3K.

The 525 is not more popular because it doesn't do anything better than anyone else at same price. Its right there with ZP5, ATACR 735 and a few others that have much better optical quality.

They had to come out with the new DLR due to people complaining about optical quality and even regression in the 525 from the 624. Yes they look better, but not much better and you are into ZCO, Used Tangent range; both stop a muddhole in kahles.

Anyone being objective will tell you Kahles punches way bellow its weight class in glass quality. This is actually kind of nuts considering the parent company, Swaro, is the Gold Standard for Optical Sporting Devises.

In this region not many people but sponsered shooters run them. A bunch of guys I shoot with ran them a few years ago, and no longer due to issues and warranty BS. Most have moved to ZCO, Tangent or the new G3 Razor.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Some of us who bought gen1 and gen2 624s will never buy another Kahles again. For those with better experiences, count yourselves lucky.

 

[Pronghunter]

I have two SB PM2’s. One is fantastic. Like ZCO nice. The other is like looking through a Mark 5HD. I’ve yet to have anyone disagree who’s looked through them both. All my 318/525’s are fantastic. I had a 624 that was the opposite. Was comparable to a PST. Same goes with some of the ATACRS I have. Some optically are phenomenal. Some not so much.

 

[mrmarklin]

My 525 is excellent. I own a few high end scopes. Mostly S&B. Kahles is comparable to those.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

S&B compared to a ZCO or Tangent is like wearing sunglasses. Everything is significantly darker.

That is not a good thing.

Gen 3 razor has better glass

 

[MarkyMark007]

ahhh, SH full of american shit shillers...

 

[Randycw]

So is there any image quality improvements from the 525i to the DLR version? I have looked for side-by-side comparisons and don't seem to find anything. Probably that means there isn't any difference in IQ, but thought I'd ask since the FOV has changed figured maybe Kahles adjusted a few other pieces of the glass.

 

[stephen r]

I believe Phil Velayo in YouTube has a side-by-side showing 8% greater field of view for the DLR versus the regular 525i Kahles.

 

[Reload10]

The dlr advertises huge fov, but it’s actually just what I’d call standard fov in todays optics. One thing I don’t like about my dlr is the eyepiece focus is very loose. With a tenebraex cap, opening and closing the cap really wiggles the fast focus eyepiece.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I was able to compare a DLR to a standard 525i. There is definitely a larger FOV on the DLR. Didn't/couldn't measure and I was indoors.

 

[Reload10]

Even indoors you can measure fov since it’s simply an angular measurement. Measure the mils presented in the reticle with both optics at same magnification. Standard seems to be 20 mil at 20x.

 

[MarkyMark007]

he couldn't...

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I'll rephrase, I didn't because I wasn't able to take the time to "measure".