Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

[GBMaryland]

NOTICE: ON PAGE TWO OF THIS POST IS INFORMATION ABOUT THE HORUS VISION GUN LIBRARY SOFTWARE FOR THE KESTREL 4500NV WITH ATRAG THAT WAS FINALLY RELEASED. THE SOFTWARE AT THIS TIME DOES NOT INSTALL AND WORK PROPERLY, GO TO PAGE TWO FOR SPECIFICS.

---

So, this is just an opening foray into reviewing the product.

I just picked up one of these bad boys and it IS very neat.

At first glance it's a Kestrel 4500NV with added features. However, after the inital glance over, you start to wonder where the added functionality is (other than just the Kestrel):

- Under Windows 7 x64, while you can pair the 4500NV Atrag BT wit the OS, the software provided by Nielsen-Kellerman (Kestrel) doesn't appear to communicate with the device.

- Additionally, you might figure that they'd have a mobile smartphone application, or something similar...

- The next thing is it doesn't appear that they've updated anything to include enhanced configuration support for the ATRAG model of 4500NV

-- What I mean is: You don't appear to be able to download the configuration settings for backup (which can be very time consuming to setup), and it doesn't appear that you can program the device using BlueTooth and their real time software.

(To be honest, I really thought they'd have a new version of the software just for this device.)

- That brings me to the last part of my inital observation. There is a single webpage devoted to the device and that's it. Nothing else. (A web video is on the page and it gives little information.)

-- So, all of the things that I would expect, like firmware updating, configuration downloading/upload, configuration (e.g. weapon setup) etc. do not appear to exist. ...and if they do, I musta have completely missed them; everything appears manual to the meter.

What concerns me is that while the product may work, and work well [or not] (I'll get to testing that part of the equation shortly, then get back to you all.) I'm getting that feeling in the pit of my stomach that this product was either not thought through, or put out faster than their company could manage well.

Moreover, in their support forums, they specifically require that an admin approve your questions. Most of the posts in the forums are from 2010... NOTHING is current... and that's a little odd too.

So, those are the first impressions before putting the meter through its paces.

The 4500NV is a nice unit, with ATRAG it should be really nice, but you should also have superior BlueTooth functionality on a device that costs about $700.00.

What do people on the Hide want to see when it comes to a functional review of the device?

GB

 

[average_freak]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

This might be a loaded request but can you could find out any way to check their claim of crosswind accounting. I'm assuming it's a manual entry by the user for speed and requiring the range of the crosswind as well but I have never personally used one, just been fed the data from a regular 4500. I've been waiting for this thing to appear somewhere close to me but I have to finally give in on this and submit my fist post after over a year of lurking from my cave. Any info will help thanks for taking the time to post this review

 

[nimoz]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I have the 4500 w Bluetooth and while I can pair OK, their app doesn't connect.
But their support site info helped me dump all my measurements using the B command.
- I tried their app on Windows XP on a PC and Win7 VM on a MAC/Parallels.
Same same.

But this did work:
http://nkhome.com/support/tutorials/kestrel-connecting-tutorial/#14

Date/time seem to be in seconds.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: average_freak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This might be a loaded request but can you could find out any way to check their claim of crosswind accounting. I'm assuming it's a manual entry by the user for speed and requiring the range of the crosswind as well but I have never personally used one, just been fed the data from a regular 4500. I've been waiting for this thing to appear somewhere close to me but I have to finally give in on this and submit my fist post after over a year of lurking from my cave. Any info will help thanks for taking the time to post this review </div></div>

Full Review Question #1: Confirm support for crosswind accounting.

Wilco.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Ok,

Reading the manuals a little more closely, it appears that the 4500NV with ATRAG (BlueTooth) should be able to communicate with a peice of Horus software called:

"Horus Gun Library Software"

Available from Horus (though they are not specific on this), and it's NOT on the Nielsen-Kellerman (Kestrel) website.

A search for the software and visiting Horus' website yeilds only the results for the 4500NV's ATRAG supplement for the Kestrel.

Something is beginning to smell bad here....

Anyone seen this software or have a copy, or know where it can be purchased? (Though, if I've got to purchase it, I'm going to be annoyed after spending $700.00.)

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Mine has no bluetooth. entered everything manually. holding info for 6 rifles in different calibers.No real instructions anywhere,however there was a good you tube vid that walked you through some of the basics. My experience is this unit is hands and feet over the Exbal and PDA I was using. Gonna travel way north to see how it works in different environments and how the ballistic program reacts to the chnage. I will post my findings.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I should clarify: my issue is that if you buy something with BlueTooth, you expect to be able to use it...

Manual entry seems to work well enough, but the 4500NV with Atrag is supposed to house <span style="font-weight: bold">50 gun libraries(!)</span> This appears to only be doable with the Horus Gun Library software...

Humph.

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I didn;t see the value in the Bluetooth,but I do see your point. Would also think a device like this would come with some more detailed instructions.

 

[Geronimo]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Well let's get the kinks worked out, my non bt model should be here monday and I have one great rifle to work with.

 

[taseal]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I don't understand why people the expensive ones...

Bluetooth? Really? Get your values, and put therm ib your fucking circulator. Really takes 25-30 seconds.

As far as barometer and temperature, well my watch has those features. Most phones can pull pressure data from a near by airport. Same with temp

I just don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something.

The one thats like 150 that has wind, temp, pressure is enough to get a good solution...

 

[Geronimo]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I have the non bt model, also where I shoot the is no cell service the last 15/20 minutes before you get to the range, and this has the calculator built in cuts down on crap to carry.

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I like cool electronics. I was waiting for the one with the cappuccino maker but they said it would be a few more months.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like cool electronics. I was waiting for the one with the cappuccino maker but they said it would be a few more months. </div></div>

What, your's didn't come with the Cappuccino machine... shit, you got ripped off.... Mine came with BT, and the USB/Serial/Cappuccino machine cradle.

Geesh.

 

[jlow]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I have the straight 4500NV model and got it for $285 from Midway. I also like the idea of not relying on cell service to obtain this information and the wind meter is also nice to have. FWIW, you not only need temp, pressure, but also humidity and altitude. Having to carry one less gadget would have been nice but I already have the ATRAG on my PDA and the extra cost was too much for me.

Have not quite figured out how to do the cross wind thing yet but hopefully will get that under my belt soon.

 

[ubet]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I have an old version of the 4500nv. It would be nice to have the bt ability, but honestly, it only takes 30 secs to enter it into shooter. I cant see spending all that money for all that stuff, when most people have phones that you can download good apps onto, and dont have to carry all that stuff with you.

 

[nimoz]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an old version of the 4500nv. It would be nice to have the bt ability, but honestly, it only takes 30 secs to enter it into shooter. I cant see spending all that money for all that stuff, when most people have phones that you can download good apps onto, and dont have to carry all that stuff with you. </div></div>
I got the BT option to also save data from zeroing and to match up with the output from my chronograph, which is more tedious than entering a DA number when shooting.
But I would be happier if my iPhone and Ballistic FTE would actually talk to my Kestrel, but that may come.

 

[timlemons64]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I also have the non BT 4500 NV. $250 & love it. Living in Colorado with varying high elevations and zero cell coverage in the rockies makes the Kestrel a great tool. I still use my IPOD app for entering data to get a solution. The app was cheap and works well now that I can enter real data. Feel your pain though. For 700 bones you should be getting seriously great support and have an app that works.

 

[btyeung]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I shot with mine at Steel Safari 2011 and the elevation was spot on. In fact I used it exclusively for elevation.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARdude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also have the non BT 4500 NV. $250 & love it. Living in Colorado with varying high elevations and zero cell coverage in the rockies makes the Kestrel a great tool. I still use my IPOD app for entering data to get a solution. The app was cheap and works well now that I can enter real data. Feel your pain though. For 700 bones you should be getting seriously great support and have an app that works. </div></div>

That was exactly what I was doing. So I figure that if I can elminiate the need to enter stuff into the iPhone or iPad, then it's a great win.

However, I've got 4 rifles with as many as 3 loads a pop. I want to be able to chrono those, and then get that data at my finger tips.

More to the point, I want to be able to us the darned BT functionality.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<span style="font-weight: bold">Update Number One</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Called Kestrel and asked why the heck this insanely expensive meter doesn't talk to their own software, and where the heck is the "Gun Library" software they mention in their instructions?</span>

I end up speaking with someone named "Ben Neilsen" on the technical support like. (Kestrel is made by "Neilsen-Kellerman.")

(Nice guy. Especially nice given that I more or less asked "WTF is going on with total lack of support for your massively expensive 4500NV with ATRAG?")

He informed me:

THE SOFTWARE ON THEIR SITE IS KNOWN NOT TO WORK DUE TO INCOMPATIBILITIES WITH MICROSOFT .NET.

But, while they don't have a version posted on their website (which hasn't been updated in a long time with respect to software), they did have an updated version and I was sent a link to it.

So that gets you the abilty to see real time data in Windows, and we'll see what else.

THEN...

Ben told me that the "Gun Library" software should be on the Horus website.

...and proceeded to punt to Horus.

It appears that Kestral takes no responsibility for the ATRAG software in their meters.

So I called Horus and got their voicemail... They also seem like a small company: I got voicemail during visiting hours that sounded like there were kids in the background when they recorded the "general mailbox" message. (Who knows?)

I left a message stating that I was looking for the 4500NV ATRAG "gun library" software and Kestrel told me to call them.

So far, it's looking like what I was concerned about... two small companies, one on the east coast and one on the west, and they do not appear to be unified on their product delivery / roll out. (However, a quick check on Nielsen-Kellerman shows that their 2009 revenues were almost $10,000,000. Horus, however, is substanially smaller... so my comment is probably accurate.)

I did mention that a bunch of us were discussing this, and that bad press is not usually helpful... that perhaphs they could speak with Horus and get things straight?

 

[shootist2004]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

If Horus was concerned about bad press they would have sent a hitman after me years ago.....

 

[timlemons64]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Totally concur. For the $$ you shelled out you should be getting waht you paid for. I am satisfied with the setup I have for the investment I made. Hope you get resolution.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

You know when I traded up from my 3500NV to the 4500NVBT I thought about getting the ATRAG but I did not find much support on the Kestrel site. I love the 4500NVBT the bluetooth works great and the meter is dead on. It worked good enough that I went a head and ordered a Nomad.

That really sucks that each company is punting-- I hope you get it resolved. Is it too late to return it ... and just get the 4500NVBT?

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Horus was concerned about bad press they would have sent a hitman after me years ago..... </div></div>

I sent them an email indicating my DoD affiliation and cc'ing Neilsen-Kellerman. Now I'll start being persistent like nerve gas...

 

[Scott300RUM]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I called and talked to NK technical support a few days ago about this meter because I'm weighing the options of trading my 4500NV towards it. They made it sounds like you can download that 'gun libraries' software into your computer, then put everything in there you want, and upload it into the meter.

Does it not seem to really work that way? This seems like a lot of money to pay for a product, but it'd be worth it if it was designed correctly and had software to back it up. Let us know what else you find out, and how it works when you take it in the field.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[nimoz]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<span style="font-weight: bold">He informed me:

THE SOFTWARE ON THEIR SITE IS KNOWN NOT TO WORK DUE TO INCOMPATIBILITIES WITH MICROSOFT .NET.

But, while they don't have a version posted on their website (which hasn't been updated in a long time with respect to software), they did have an updated version and I was sent a link to it.

So that gets you the abilty to see real time data in Windows, and we'll see what else.</span>


</div></div>

If the linked sw worked, I would very much like the link.
- Assuming: <span style="font-style: italic">Kestrel Communicator Interface Softwar</span>e

Thanks

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott300RUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called and talked to NK technical support a few days ago about this meter because I'm weighing the options of trading my 4500NV towards it. They made it sounds like you can download that 'gun libraries' software into your computer, then put everything in there you want, and upload it into the meter.

Does it not seem to really work that way? This seems like a lot of money to pay for a product, but it'd be worth it if it was designed correctly and had software to back it up. Let us know what else you find out, and how it works when you take it in the field.

Thanks,
Scott </div></div>

Nope,

They tell you to contact Horus.

I was unable to find the gun library software on the Horus website... but it would be nice if some one else looked.

GB

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Horus Update:

Got the receptionist and she indicated that what I needed was the "Gun Loader" software and sent me to x106 "Larry." Who should be able to help me.

Larry was not at his desk, so I left a message. (Name and all of the phone numbers to reach me at...)

So hopefully we'll have an update soon.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nimoz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the linked sw worked, I would very much like the link.
- Assuming: <span style="font-style: italic">Kestrel Communicator Interface Softwar</span>e

Thanks </div></div>

"Ben" from Kestrel, has indicated that the product is not completely ready for prime time (doesn't uninstall prior versions, etc.).

So, he'd rather that we call or email him:

Ben Nielsen
Technical Support Representative
Nielsen-Kellerman
21 Creek Circle, Boothwyn, PA 19061
Phone: (610) 447-1555, ext. 109
or (484) 480-9631 (direct)
Website: www.nkhome.com

So... give him a call.

GB

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: average_freak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This might be a loaded request but can you could find out any way to check their claim of crosswind accounting. I'm assuming it's a manual entry by the user for speed and requiring the range of the crosswind as well but I have never personally used one, just been fed the data from a regular 4500. I've been waiting for this thing to appear somewhere close to me but I have to finally give in on this and submit my fist post after over a year of lurking from my cave. Any info will help thanks for taking the time to post this review </div></div>

Full Review Question #1: Confirm support for crosswind accounting.

Wilco. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Answer to question #1 is that headwind, crosswind, and windspeed are all separate measurements that the Kestral 4500NV Atrag is taking or derriving.</span>

Now that I've got the software reading my 4500NV ATRAG, real time data show different values at 5 second for each of the aforementioned.

I'd call Ben Neilsen above if you want more detailed information.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

...now, on the FLIP slide... 2 calls to Horus, no responses.

 

[nimoz]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nimoz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the linked sw worked, I would very much like the link.
- Assuming: <span style="font-style: italic">Kestrel Communicator Interface Softwar</span>e

Thanks </div></div>

"Ben" from Kestrel, has indicated that the product is not completely ready for prime time (doesn't uninstall prior versions, etc.).

So, he'd rather that we call or email him:

Ben Nielsen
Technical Support Representative
Nielsen-Kellerman
21 Creek Circle, Boothwyn, PA 19061
Phone: (610) 447-1555, ext. 109
or (484) 480-9631 (direct)
Website: www.nkhome.com

So... give him a call.

GB </div></div>
OK, will do.

 

[average_freak]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Sounds good, I'll have to annoy someone with many questions that require oversimplified answers. I think I know who to call on my precious downtime at work. GBMaryland thanks man

 

[taseal]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the straight 4500NV model and got it for $285 from Midway. I also like the idea of not relying on cell service to obtain this information and the wind meter is also nice to have. FWIW, you not only need temp, pressure, but also humidity and altitude. Having to carry one less gadget would have been nice but I already have the ATRAG on my PDA and the extra cost was too much for me.

Have not quite figured out how to do the cross wind thing yet but hopefully will get that under my belt soon. </div></div>

Humidity and altitude are products of temp and pressure.

You need to know seal level pressure to get a altitude reading. And you need to know the altitude if you wanna know the pressure.

For humidity you need to know the dew point I think. I believe my shooter app calculates all that though. All I need is temp, and pressure. Same with DA. You need temp with pressure. Any smart phone can give you this info, and don't need cell coverage for conversions. And we all carry phones, so it's not extra gear.

Just saying I wouldn't spend the extra 100-400 bux when all the stuff is already available to me.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Humidity and altitude are products of temp and pressure.

You need to know seal level pressure to get a altitude reading. And you need to know the altitude if you wanna know the pressure.

For humidity you need to know the dew point I think. I believe my shooter app calculates all that though. All I need is temp, and pressure. Same with DA. You need temp with pressure. Any smart phone can give you this info, and don't need cell coverage for conversions. And we all carry phones, so it's not extra gear.

Just saying I wouldn't spend the extra 100-400 bux when all the stuff is already available to me. </div></div>

Not true if COMSEC is an issue...

 

[sab1]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Horus Update:

Got the receptionist and she indicated that what I needed was the "Gun Loader" software and sent me to x106 "Larry." Who should be able to help me.

Larry was not at his desk, so I left a message. (Name and all of the phone numbers to reach me at...)

So hopefully we'll have an update soon. </div></div>

GB:

Like you, I purchased a one of the Horus BT meters a couple weeks back. I went through the exact same scenario you did while trying to take advantage of the BT capabilities. Ben was very helpful in getting me set up with the .NET fix. I was successful in getting some info from Larry at Horus. I spoke to him last week Wed or Thurs. He told me that the Gun Library software was on their website for a while, but there was a "catastrophic bug" in it, so they pulled it. Their software guy is working on a fix, and they'll put it back up on their site when it's done. He expected it to be a week or so, which happens to be about right now. It's still not on their site (I just checked). Judging from Horus' reputation for poor customer service, I'm fully prepared to wait a while before the software appears. I'm happy with the unit, but I wish Kestrel would have done the ballistics programming in-house, rather than partnering with Horus...

Regards,
sab1

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Good to know... I'll start updating my reviews on public sale points.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I've sent another email to "Larry" at Horus.

The next step will be to start posting all over the place how they don't respond to inquries about their products, and how it's possibly the worst product on the planet, if you require all the features you paid for.

I guess I could do the $25.00 court fee for law suits under $2500.00 and sue him for fraud?


I mean, a complete willingness to not speak to your comsumer base to give them a time frame for delivery is outside of any reasonable expectation.

 

[rfmanning]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I have had one of these units since the first of the year. The BT works, after some tweaking. At one time the Horus Vision Gun Library software was on the NKHome site. I managed to download it and get it to work. As stated, it wasn't ready for prime time. I have since had a computer rebuild. the software didn't make it. My emails to NKhome and Horus have gone unanswered.

The unit does indeed work ad advertised. I purchased the vane and tripod. Wish I had the Gun Library software.

Bob

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Thanks for that... It's good to know the product should work.

I'm about to get personal this and start lpoking for any military / le / state contracts they may have, the then start not playing so nice.

 

[taseal]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've sent another email to "Larry" at Horus.

The next step will be to start posting all over the place how they don't respond to inquries about their products, and how it's possibly the worst product on the planet, if you require all the features you paid for.

I guess I could do the $25.00 court fee for law suits under $2500.00 and sue him for fraud?


I mean, a complete willingness to speak to your comsumer base to give them a time frame for delivery is a reasonable expectation. </div></div>

you should.

keep us upto date.

I'm so glad my HDMR's warranty is backed up bushnell and not horus.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
you should.

keep us upto date.

I'm so glad my HDMR's warranty is backed up bushnell and not horus. </div></div>

I checked we my attorney... And she indicated that we'd need to go after Neilsen-Kellermann too. However, Ben is actually helpful...

So I would effectively have to nuke NK to also get to Horus as well.

If he's screwed TwoShoes, then its his pocket book that is the only thing he's going to understand.

I'll give a week and then go nuclear. In the meanwhile, I'm going to check to see if they are on our vendor list... Then, if they are, there is a process for excluding a vendors products from purchase. The advantage to working for the government... (for once)

 

[taseal]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
you should.

keep us upto date.

I'm so glad my HDMR's warranty is backed up bushnell and not horus. </div></div>

I checked we my attorney... And she indicated that we'd need to go after Neilsen-Kellermann too. However, Ben is actually helpful...

So I would effectively have to nuke NK to also get to Horus as well.

If he's screwed TwoShoes, then its his pocket book that is the only thing he's going to understand.

I'll give a week and then go nuclear. In the meanwhile, I'm going to check to see if they are on our vendor list... Then, if they are, there is a process for excluding a vendors products from purchase. The advantage to working for the government... (for once) </div></div>

I would understand. kestel hardware with horus software...

give it a week and let us know, I'm following the thread.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Well,

The update is this...

Horus appears to be known for, at best, crappy customer service.

Behind the scenes of all of this it appears that at least one hide member has been harassed over a related post, and at least one vendor has admitted that he may have mentioned to Neilsen-Kellerman not to do any projects with Horus Vision.

So, I suspect that unless a miracle occurs the civilian side of the user base is SOL.

I've made it a point of reporting these incidents up to people in the various procurement and CID related areas, so it's at least on record.

Interestingly, one of the comments from an O-6 the other day was "well, if they are doing it to the [civilian crowd] they're probably doing it to us."

Otherwise, I'd pretty much recommend that you stay away from anything Horus related until they actually start returning their customers calls, and supporting their products.

It appears NK has little interest in attempting to pressure Horus, so unless something neat happens, I'd think the 4500NV with BT and ATRAG will wither on the vine and die.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

FYI:

It appears that the Kestrel folks are not approving messages that relate to the Gun Library software questions on their website.

In fact, ALL messages posted on the site MUST be approved by the moderators (owners) of the company.

So, at the end of the day, it's looking like they don't support their products either... or allow discussion about the products.

Time to be evil.

 

[Max Owner]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Its a shame about the hassles involved here.

I <span style="text-decoration: underline">was </span> interested in the Horus model but guess I have lost interest.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Nope, there is no doubt that customer service is not even remotely a concern of either company.

If it was, then NK [aka Kestrel] would have posted a fixed version of the software for their Premier handheld weather meter (nice as they are one the phone), and Horus Vision (aka "Larry") would have gotten back to me.

This is one of those times when a single person's interaction is really the full story (on this product).

...its the fact that not ONE person had a positive thing to say about Horus Vision that told the rest of the story.

 

[ikalli]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

I would like to know how this issue resolves to figure out if I will buy this unit or not in August or stick with the original Kestrel 4500..
Does anyone have issues with the unit itself in practice or "just" BT functionality and customer service?

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Technical analysis:

1) No indication that Kestral can be updated via flashing the firmware; if there is an ATRAG issue, you could be screwed.

2) The "Gun Library" software is non-existent at this time. So you are fine with a few loadouts when entered manually, but if you really want to get all of you loadouts into the device, or several of them, you can forget it. [For example, I make rounds in batches of 1000, and chrono the batch... I want those load differences accounted for by setting up the Kestrel and a second backup unit]

3) There are no indicated provisions for backing up your ATRAG settings from the Kestrel 4500NV with ATRAG (blue tooth or otherwise)

4) Customer support on the Horus side seems to include many reports from people with much more time in grade, per se, than myself, of ignoring their customer base.

5) Kestrel, with generally makes great products, has an online support forum system that requires INDIVIDUAL approval of posts made. So, even when you mention something not really negative but without a positive spin on their product, the post doesnt get approved (that's not a good sign)

6) Kestrel does not have current production quality communications software for their BT enable versions and the latest Windows platforms. The support site, last I looked, shows versions that are YEARs old. This is not what you expect when you spend $600-$700 for an integrated solution.

Does it work? It appears to. Has it been well vetted, i'm not of that opinion.

Does it work as advertised, absolutely not. They would loose any court case if the documention accompanying the device were put in front of a jury.

 

[ikalli]

Re: Kestral 4500NV with Horus ATRAG & Blue Tooth - Int

Thanks for the update, looks like this device might work for the limited use I need it for, not planning on the BT version anyways. Too bad they screwed up an important factor like software and communication. Doesn't have to be that expensive to fix, and at least much better for the company to resolve those issues asap than getting negative customer reputation.