I know the sr16 designation is mainly for law enforcement and military and the sr15 is for civilians. My question is are their non full auto, non burst sr16 lowers sold to civilians?
Knights armament sr16
- Thread starter Mj30wilson900
- Start date
You can pick up an upper, but I don’t believe they make a sr16 lower without the happy switch.
There's not just one model of either the SR-15 or SR-16 to simply answer that question. And historically the SR-16 has retained certain characteristics not found on the commercial offerings such as different barrel profiles (typically medium), different barrel contours, ball mill dimpling, rail systems that have not been commercial offerings, full auto carriers even when the commercial SR-15's to include the earliest production E3's had semi-profile, enhancements such as chromed bolts that were made with various exoctic materials (they have not all been the same), other features may include the chromed sand-cut carriers which are a latter feature, they have always also maintained standard MILSPEC MIL-STD-1913 railed Upper Receivers vs the commercial offerings that have on rare occasion had the integrated rear sights . However keep in mind that the features are typically customer driven requirements (those customers being US and foreign government entities), so one entity may specify chromed bolts and another may not for example. Some of these features will sometimes migrate to the commercial offerings of which we are lucky to benefit from given the R&D and T&E costs to bring those enhancements to market likely wouldn't have existed if there wasn't an existing USG requirement or funding source.
ETA: If you drew two parallel lines with the top being the SR-16 and bottom being the SR-15 at no point during the last 10 years have those 2 lines come closer to converging than they have now.
Hope that helps a little, Geno
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The year 2019 or the secondary market.
Worst time to become a kac whore. It was fun 5+ years ago before all the Chad's and larpers got into it. Now it's just a complete waste of time and money. Sold most of my shit at a huge profit to the retards paying $1200 for a rail or $800 for a bolt carrier minus bolt. Last Sr15 mod 1 I sold went for well over $4k. Paid $1500 for it brand new.
I just paid $900 for my 11.5 BCM upper with CHF barrel. So is the SR-15 mod 2 upper not worth the extra 1k for the durability and reliability that a KAC upper is known for I heard the barrels are chrome lined unless it’s just the SR-16’s and bolt carrier groups are great I doubt I’d pay extra for the sand cutter since I live in KY but I assumed everything KAC was worth the extra money? I prefer BCM over every other AR but I’d kill just to have a KAC and I don’t like the LMT MARS monorail but I love the LMT lowers.
Well back then we had real KAC fans. Not the legions of faggots who didn't even know they exist until garand thumb and other boobtubers introduced them to the masses. Outside of some really rare stuff we shot the piss out of it all. Most of this shit getting bought is sitting in a safe unmolested.
You have to look at KAC in the spectrum of history. Years ago they were hands down the best AR money could buy, were a bargain when you factored in what they came with from factory ( sopmod, KAC BUIS, Amazing Rail system, Great 2 stage trigger, Ambi,ect) and the E3 bolt was better than anything else out there. They were the true inovators for the AR15. Almost every early feature they came out with later got picked up by others and are standard now. Today, the difference between say an SR15 and a Super Duty or a LMT MARS-L is not what it was when you were being compared to rack grade Colts, Bushmmasters, Armalite , Spikes, RRA, ect. LMT and BCM were always high quality, but the SR15 and 25 had shit nothing else did at the time. They were truly ahead of their time.,
You have to look at KAC in the spectrum of history. Years ago they were hands down the best AR money could buy, were a bargain when you factored in what they came with from factory ( sopmod, KAC BUIS, Amazing Rail system, Great 2 stage trigger, Ambi,ect) and the E3 bolt was better than anything else out there. They were the true inovators for the AR15. Almost every early feature they came out with later got picked up by others and are standard now. Today, the difference between say an SR15 and a Super Duty or a LMT MARS-L is not what it was when you were being compared to rack grade Colts, Bushmmasters, Armalite , Spikes, RRA, ect. LMT and BCM were always high quality, but the SR15 and 25 had shit nothing else did at the time. They were truly ahead of their time.,
except lmt made a ton of their shit for them lol
I would still say kac/lmt are ahead of the pack by a nice margin
So you’re saying KAC is the same quality now as any other major company that makes ARs but not expensive like BCM, PSA, and Spikes? I know LMT has made parts for KAC and is the same quality just a bit cheaper but not as cheap as BCM and even then BCM quality is top notch for such an affordable price, I love BCM. I was thinking of buying an SR-15 CQB upper soon because I’ve always wanted a KAC since I was in middle school back in ‘08 and I wanna do a KAC lower but might opt for an LMT lower since they’re completely Ambi, it just sucks KAC is $2,000 for a 11.5” CQB Mod 2 but it’s like buying a Cadillac for AR15s so I get it.
Do you own any KAC/LMT? What’s your review or opinion on either? Is it worth the money? I just want a KAC for owning one and to shoot the hell out of it! My BCM is to beat and abuse on the range but I’m thinking of having a KAC or KAC/LMT hybrid as a duty rifle and truck gun but still take it to the range!
sold my kacs for obscene money but kept one in 308 and own 5 LMTs of various flavors. LMT is, imho, the best of the best. Lots of things going into them, it's not just the monolithic upper that makes the reliable, accurate, and solid work horses.
I feel the prices of kac today make them not worth it, not by a country mile. LMT is expensive but not out of reach expensive and you get your monies worth
Below that, I'd look at Centurion Arms and call it a day
Yea I saw LMT is more expensive than say BCM probably around Geissele prices but not as much as KAC I want to own a KAC just to own one but I’ve looked at LMT especially their lowers. So you think LMT is better than KAC?
This is where I'm at. Have a couple Mod 1s and I think I may sell a "rare" combo, qd lower and a 3t and use the money to buy a new truck or whatever. Definitely like shooting them but I may keep the 14.5 with pinned nt4 mams and send the other down the road for a cool $10k.
Yeah it's a little hyperbole but not by much
Now is a great time for buying SR15 uppers, just not lowers or the SR25 series guns. I'm regularly seeing cqb uppers, lightly used and complete with sights, buffer, etc. for ~ $1,400 (pretty sure there's still one in the PX). People were paying like $3k for these 12 months ago.
Idiots overpay when availability is low and demand is high, and they inevitably get bored, or decide they want something else, and sell for a big loss. Happens all the time in the gun market. We're on the down swing (economic uncertainty, KS1 announced) so it's a good time to pick stuff up.
Lowers will come back at some point and prices will come down on them.
The older Mod 1 stuff isn't being made any more, so you're paying collector prices if you want any of it. If you're a shooter, buy mod 2 with the URX4 rails.
Idiots overpay when availability is low and demand is high, and they inevitably get bored, or decide they want something else, and sell for a big loss. Happens all the time in the gun market. We're on the down swing (economic uncertainty, KS1 announced) so it's a good time to pick stuff up.
Lowers will come back at some point and prices will come down on them.
The older Mod 1 stuff isn't being made any more, so you're paying collector prices if you want any of it. If you're a shooter, buy mod 2 with the URX4 rails.
That is a hard question.
On the Small Frame, The MARS-L gives the SR15 lower a run for its money. KAC has a better trigger and the controls are pretty simple/not in the way. On the upper, KAC is known for very accurate chrome lined barrels, they use a proprietary barrel extension for the E3 bolt, which has no equal. Not that long ago you could get a full KAC SR15 ambi lower half for like $800. Now they sell for crazy amounts. If I wanted to piece together a rifle it would look like this.
KAC upper Mod 2 in whatever length
MARS-L complete Lower
Giessele Hi Speed Match Trigger
The great thing about LMT is you can either buy them as a factory configuration, Or buy every part ALA Cart. I have pieced together custom MWS 6.5Creed rifles using nothing but LMT factory parts, and it cost me less their their version of the rifle. Only things I changed were trigger, muzzle device , BRT gas tube and stock.
For Large Frame, LMT makes much more sense. You can build it youself, have a ton of option and as long as you stay with LMT parts, the shit will run like a sewing machine. Its bassicaly the only large frame AR that builds like an AR15 in that you know it will run well. A new Sr25 in say 6.5 creed is going to run you over $6K. You can build a very similar gun, just as reliable/durrable that will shoot as well for half off that via LMT. Their cut rifle stainless barrels are a hell of a bargain at $6-700.
My dates may be suspect, but I believe some of the Brit's at Camp Bastion were fielding the L129a1 around the same time the M110 was really starting to get wider use. Both are relatively well proven, reliable arms makers and you can't go wrong with either one. YMMV.
I just want an SR-15 CQB mod 2. I would love to get an SR-16 CQB mod 2 commercial or otherwise if I can but if they’re much more expensive than the SR-15 then I’d just get that over the other since I don’t think there’s a huge difference except that the SR-16 is for Govt use and SR-15 is the commercial variant. For a lower I’d like to stay with KAC but since the lower instead completely Ambi except for the SR-16s but you can’t get those because of the happy switch so I’m thinking of doing an LMT MARS lower for the full Ambi experience. Also where can I find an SR-15 CQB Mod 2 upper for sale at the price range you mentioned right now? Idk what the PX is just the military base PX
. If I have to I can build or buy an LMT MARS lower and if I decide to go full KAC later I can use the MARS lower on my BCM so the MARS lower would never go to waste or be a loss in my eyes.
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How much does a MARS-L complete lower cost to buy vs cost to buy the parts and build myself, is it hard to? Also thank y’all for all the help you’ve given me it’s greatly appreciated I just want the rifle of my dreams and idk much about KAC other than it’s a damn good rifle that is accurate and reliable there’s nothing wrong with my BCM and I absolutely love their products but I want to spoil myself with getting a KAC or KAC/LMT hybrid!
Check out V1 tactical and Titan defense who has 20% off sales from time to time. Right now it's 20-40%
It really depends on where the dart lands on KAC production dart board, and even if they did decide to do a run, they are going to be sold before they arrive at the vendor. I've even saw in one of the KAC social media groups that one of the more well-known vendors have there on private groups to provide "updates". Come on, Private groups within private groups...LOL
I primarily shoot Kac and LMT stuff. The main issue with this stuff is that there is a very real point of diminishing results with most high-end gear. Today, at a certain price point, everything is really good.
20 years ago there was a big difference between a rack grade Colt M4 and an SR15 and I think that they were worth the premium. fast forward to today, thats not the case.
From a practical standpoint, none of these high-end rifles are going to outperform the other and it's really all going to come down to what you want and There is absolutely nothing wrong with running a KAC upper on a BCM lower.
With that being said, while i consider my SR25 a grail peace in my collection, if i had to make a decision between going KAC or LMT. Without hesitation, 100 percent of the time, I am going to go with LMT. KAC simply doesn't support their product lines.
I know if I burn out a LMT barrel, I can get a barrel in route to me by todays close of business and have it installed five minutes of the package arriving. You really can't call up KAC and say, hey guys, I just burnt out my barrel in my $5000 SR25, would it be possible to get that barreled in 6.5cm. The best they are going to do is shoot you a link to a new 6000 dollar upper on gunbroker. As much as I respect, KAC's legacy, it's just not worth the headache.
Mars lowers range from 850 to 1000 depending on how its configured. You are not really going to save any money building your own, but assembling a lower is something that can be done at home with simple hand tools, if you are not confident, this would be a really low-level job for your local gunsmith that can be knocked out in about 10 minutes. The main advantage to building is not having to pay for an LMT trigger if you know you are going to run a Gieselle.
I have a bunch of different triggers, and they are all really good, but i would rank them as follows
Geisselle
Larue MBT
LMT/KAC, flip a coin.
I was gonna run the SR-15 on my BCM lower (funny that you mentioned it) until I invested in a MARS-L lower, I like LMT I just have always wanted a KAC and I know they are both the same quality with LMT being usually cheaper I’d just do a KAC upper with LMT lower if I don’t do a full KAC rifle and it sounds like KAC lowers are fucking outrageously overpriced rn it seems from what everyone’s saying so I’ll take y’all’s word with a grain of salt and get a KAC upper with an LMT lower if I can it seems both are sold out at the moment I haven’t checked one other site yall mentioned to me
I know Geissele triggers are dope asf my buddy loves anything Geissele where as I really like KAC/LMT just don’t own any yet lol, but I was thinking of leaving all my triggers factory stock BCM/KAC/LMT because I’m use to mil-spec triggers and I have no issues with them I’m sure the lighter and smoother triggers are absolutely fantastic but I’m perfectly fine with using the stock mil-spec triggers that come with BCM or KAC/LMT and I don’t wanna swap it out for a nicer trigger and say it doesn’t run as well because it wasn’t the original part same as factory safeties, I just leave both triggers and safeties alone since they do exactly what I want and I have no issues with them. Much rather just buy different uppers and lowers to mix/match and have fun with them!
It sounds like you are on the right path.
I would recommend once you get your stuff, get out and shoot and see what really works for you. I think its easy to get caught up chasing the latest and the greatest piece of gear.
Also don't be afraid to update your worldview from time to time. I was a big proponent of DI AR's based on first gen HK416's and held that belief until a couple years ago when i picked up a 12-inch LMT piston kits just mess around with as it turned out to be phenomenal. Now I hold the viewpoint that there are really good Piston guns as well as really good DI guns. What makes the most sense is going to be largely dependent on the end user.
Like I keep coming back to I love BCM rifles they are very affordable and very reliable, practically bombproof. I would trust any factory BCM with my life hands down I just want a KAC because I’ve always wanted to own one and shoot it now I’d settle with a KAC/LMT hybrid or even an LMT as a duty rifle or truck gun but again I just want one so bad to have one and shoot the shit out of it just like if I could have a ‘70 Dodge Charger that’s my dream car and id drive the hell out of it if I could ever afford one that’s in mint condition or a ‘67 Impala lmaooo
I am a huge fan of the short stroke piston setups, I have the Sig LT and the HK and prefer them now over DI largely because they don't vent gas in my face. My next upper is going to be LMT piston.
Super smooth upper,
There is a ton of really good stuff out there these days.
I've been considering doing a 416 type build through nefarious arms.
Attachments
Nefarious is who I used. I bought the MR556 and then scavenged some random parts. I wish I could lay my hands on an actual HK milspec barrel but I love the operating system.
Yeah not sure where you’re getting your info. Kac will rebarrel your rifle. I’ve asked Trey about this face to face.
Lol,
I've asked Trey about rebarrrling/spare barrels like two weeks ago and he acknowledged this criticsm stated they really need to improve in That area.
LMT MARS-L 16" 5.56 MLR MLOK Rifle - MRPMLK16-MARS | Rooftop Defense
Buy LMT MARS-L 16" 5.56 MLR MLOK Rifle | The LMT MARS is manufactured for military grade durability, and is free-floated inside a M-LOK handguard.
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$2,193 with coupon code "pewpew" for an entire lmt mlok rifle in 556.
LMT Defender Forged Complete Lower Receiver Assembly | Rooftop Defense
Buy LMT Defender Forged Complete Lower Receiver Assembly | A high quality forged lower receiver made to meet and exceed the milspec, as LMT is widely known for.
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$388 for a complete lmt defender lower with the "pewpew" code. It is non ambi and it has a mil spec (aka awful) trigger, but if you don't care about ambi you can pick this up and put in either a larue or geisselle trigger and a stock of your choice for less than $600 total. That is if you are wanting a LMT lower. I have a few and they are great!
I might snag that rifle but for the lower I’d prefer Ambi otherwise I might as well buy a BCM lower for the same quality and durability but at a much cheaper price if anything! The only reason why I’d want an LMT MAR-L lower is for the complete ambi-settings so I can throw a KAC upper on it and have a really nice but durable and exceptionally quality of a firearm and then probably throw in another LMT lower for my BCM upper so both are complete ambi lowersLMT MARS-L 16" 5.56 MLR MLOK Rifle - MRPMLK16-MARS | Rooftop Defense
Buy LMT MARS-L 16" 5.56 MLR MLOK Rifle | The LMT MARS is manufactured for military grade durability, and is free-floated inside a M-LOK handguard.
$2,193 with coupon code "pewpew" for an entire lmt mlok rifle in 556.
LMT Defender Forged Complete Lower Receiver Assembly | Rooftop Defense
Buy LMT Defender Forged Complete Lower Receiver Assembly | A high quality forged lower receiver made to meet and exceed the milspec, as LMT is widely known for.
$388 for a complete lmt defender lower with the "pewpew" code. It is non ambi and it has a mil spec (aka awful) trigger, but if you don't care about ambi you can pick this up and put in either a larue or geisselle trigger and a stock of your choice for less than $600 total. That is if you are wanting a LMT lower. I have a few and they are great!
For the purpose of this thread i had an sr15 carbine upper rebarreled in 3 weeks by KAC in April. During that time i had another one spare to fall back to. It was not that bad.
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