For those that have had the opportunity to shoot both, I would like to know your opinions if you were going to pick on as your choice to shoot. I know both have their pros and cons but I have yet to shoot a KAC .308.
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Knight's Armament SR25 vs LMT 308
- Thread starter badkarma1985
- Start date
What are your requirements? You pay KAC money for KAC engineering and pedigree. For pure precision they will both be a wash with cut rifled barrels as far as accuracy is concerned. Both of them are among the few battle poven large frame ARs. LMT gets the nod for caliber changes and a 6.5cm on the LM8 would be a sweet setup. Personally I am not a fan of short barrel .308s and if I was to get a KAC it would be MK11/M110 esq. A ECR or other 20” cut rifled barrel ( they used to use obermeyer but I believe they use kreiger as that’s what they use on the LPR) would be my choice. There are other options out there like the OBR/JP/WILSON/etc but I would not trust my life to them if that makes sense. They are fine guns and nothing to sneeze at, they just don’t check the same box. If your desire is a lighter weight 16” .308, The Scar17 is king. You could easily put 5 to 7k into one by the time you upgrade and scope it, but it’s worth it. I love my KAC guns and swear by them however the 17 is the last rifle I would ever sell. Hope this helps.
Over the last several years I've owned several large frame AR's including both a KAC SR25 and LMT MWS. I've also had a SCAR 17, Seekins SP10, Larue OBR, and JP LRP-07. I still own the LMT and the JP.
While the KAC was a very nice platform, the LMT was 90% as good but also has quick change barrels for almost half the price. Sold the KAC and I'm very happy with the LMT.
While the KAC was a very nice platform, the LMT was 90% as good but also has quick change barrels for almost half the price. Sold the KAC and I'm very happy with the LMT.
I have owned a few AR10s and have the pleasure to shoot others as well.
I own a KAC ECC and despite people thinking you are paying for a pedigree, it is not the case. It is a bit overpriced but it is a beautiful rifle. I'll take it over any other "battle" rifle including the SCAR which is also pretty slick. I owned an LMT but sold it. I just couldn't get comfortable with it. It was heavy compared to others or not as well balanced. It was well made and was reasonably accurate but not as accurate as the ECC. It was my first AR10.
You really need to define what your use case is though. Hard to recommend as your application may be different than mine. I view the ECC as a battle rifle. It eats anything and is super reliable. However, if I am looking for accuracy I would pick my Larue tOBR any day of the week. My bud has a GAP10 that is a hammer as well.
I own a KAC ECC and despite people thinking you are paying for a pedigree, it is not the case. It is a bit overpriced but it is a beautiful rifle. I'll take it over any other "battle" rifle including the SCAR which is also pretty slick. I owned an LMT but sold it. I just couldn't get comfortable with it. It was heavy compared to others or not as well balanced. It was well made and was reasonably accurate but not as accurate as the ECC. It was my first AR10.
You really need to define what your use case is though. Hard to recommend as your application may be different than mine. I view the ECC as a battle rifle. It eats anything and is super reliable. However, if I am looking for accuracy I would pick my Larue tOBR any day of the week. My bud has a GAP10 that is a hammer as well.
I have an EMC and here is my ECR. I love both of them, but the EMC seems more accurate for some reason. The ECR has little recoil with the longer barrel and MAMs on the front. I've shot an LMT MWS and other than more recoil I can't feel any difference. Accuracy seems similar. If you're concerned with accuracy, I'd get a Larue or something else.
IMG_20180127_142752 by Andrew Basile, on Flickr
IMG_20180127_142752 by Andrew Basile, on FlickrJesus that ECR is sexy. I would love to find one with the urx 3.1 to match my mod 1 sr15. If u ever want to sell it, let me know.
You can build (or pay to have someone build) an AR10 that will be more accurate, lighter, suppress better, and be just as reliable for the price of either of them. Or you can just get a JP. But if I had to choose, I'd go LMT for the swap. KAC is great, but you can get better if you are willing to put in the time/effort/money.
No you can't. It's possible you MAY build something that is more accurate or ligher but it will not come close in reliabity or working as an engineered system. People act like these huge company's who dump millions into r&d don't know what makes this platform tick. Everything is a trade-off and there are features that you cannot buy much less do it cheaper. Price out top tier componets or ones you cannot source on the market as comparable. Anyone can put together and AR. Very few do it the correct way using the "right" parts.
This is simply incorrect. An AR is not that complicated, and if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, there are plenty of great smiths that can ensure perfect fitment and assembly like ADCO, Compass Lake Engineering, Craddock Precision, River's Bend Gun Co, MSTN rifles, and Patriot Valley Arms.
JP, KAC, LMT, what do they all have in common, what did that R&D do? Redesigned the bolt. What can you buy and match to a barrel extension? The JP bolt. So the rifle you build or pay to have built will be as reliable, and can certainly be much lighter and more accurate if using the right parts. That is the reality of the current AR market, 10 years ago it was different but in the era of cheap reliable AGBs and enhanced bolts for sale, the only reason to buy complete from these companies is off the shelf availability and easy of warranty.
JP, KAC, LMT, what do they all have in common, what did that R&D do? Redesigned the bolt. What can you buy and match to a barrel extension? The JP bolt. So the rifle you build or pay to have built will be as reliable, and can certainly be much lighter and more accurate if using the right parts. That is the reality of the current AR market, 10 years ago it was different but in the era of cheap reliable AGBs and enhanced bolts for sale, the only reason to buy complete from these companies is off the shelf availability and easy of warranty.
The bolt is one small piece of the differences. You really have to look at the history of the platform and then it's revival in the late 80's to understand. To say JP is even in the same league as those guns just shows pure ignorance of the platform.
90% of the products on the market are pure junk fueled by advertising and an ignorant base who don't know understand the platform. What you perceive is not always the case, and under controlled testing would open your eyes.
90% of the products on the market are pure junk fueled by advertising and an ignorant base who don't know understand the platform. What you perceive is not always the case, and under controlled testing would open your eyes.
You should go into business for yourself and show Larue, KAC, HK, LMT, GAP how easy it is to do
Primus what exactly do you think is so complicated about an AR? The beauty of the system is its relative simplicity. They have been perfected for 60+ years, we know what makes a reliable rifle, a durable part, and so on. Those excellent smiths do as well. Riddle me this, buy a JP gas block, barrel, bolt, and buffer system. Now pay a pro to put it together (or do it yourself if you have the know how). What would JP do that they didn't? The answer is nothing. This "muh brands" shit has got to die already. Parts are just parts, doesn't matter who's name is stamped on the side if they work properly. It doesn't even have to be a JP if you don't want, you can buy the LMT Enhanced .308 BCG as well. There is no magic voodoo that goes on in any of these shops.
Nik H no one said it is easy nor did I say I wanted to do it for a living. That isn't the argument. I'm not even saying what they charge isn't fair for what THEY need to make a profit. But the AR market as of right now provides options which provide better value and performance, plain and simple.
Please do not misunderstand, I'm not calling an LMT, KAC, or JP a bad rifle. I'm simply stating the basic fact that you can build better for less, which is just a truism in the modern market. Building or hiring a smith isn't for everyone, but folks should know they have the option.
Nik H no one said it is easy nor did I say I wanted to do it for a living. That isn't the argument. I'm not even saying what they charge isn't fair for what THEY need to make a profit. But the AR market as of right now provides options which provide better value and performance, plain and simple.
Please do not misunderstand, I'm not calling an LMT, KAC, or JP a bad rifle. I'm simply stating the basic fact that you can build better for less, which is just a truism in the modern market. Building or hiring a smith isn't for everyone, but folks should know they have the option.
Posts, I disagree, and I am a rifle builder. What you say is very true about a 5.56 gun, but not a .308/7.62. First, they, collectively, are not AR10s. There is very little standardized in the .308 platform, and it matters what barrel, what extension and what bolt you use, much like it matters in headpacing a bolt gun.
I own several LMTs, KAC and LaRue 7.62 rifles. All very well built. The good news with them, is that you can swap some parts around. But you just don't know with an Armalite, a STAG, CMMG, DMPS, etc. If you go with JP, whole different set of rules. Parts are not parts in this rilfe category.
I have spent the last year designing and engineering a barrel and a matching gas block for 7.62. These guns are not mix and match. Each has its own nuance.
I own several LMTs, KAC and LaRue 7.62 rifles. All very well built. The good news with them, is that you can swap some parts around. But you just don't know with an Armalite, a STAG, CMMG, DMPS, etc. If you go with JP, whole different set of rules. Parts are not parts in this rilfe category.
I have spent the last year designing and engineering a barrel and a matching gas block for 7.62. These guns are not mix and match. Each has its own nuance.
I'm aware there is no mix and match between various AR10-style rifles, but as long as you pick a standard and stick with it, you are generally GTG. DPMS high (or LR or Gen I or whatever you want to call it) is the easiest and has the widest array of parts available in my experience. I can throw up a parts list that is compatible and meets the requirements I've laid out right if you'd like.
And while many manufacturers have decided to go somewhat proprietary for their large frame ARs, that doesn't mean there is magic happening. It is still the familiar stoner gas system functioning in a pretty simple way. Most of the proprietary shit is handguard attachment anyway and doesn't generally effect basic function. So yeah while I may not be able to put an LMT barrel in a Mega upper, or a DD handguard on a Larue upper, or a KAC barrel on a DPMS upper, and so on, that doesn't mean that you cannot just pick a spec, stick with it, and be fine. Is it as easy as an AR15? Certainly not, but it is far from difficult. Heck, that is all CLE did for their AR10s, took the Aero M5 with their lpk and spun up a barrel for the DPMS standard and stuck with it. Nothing complex at all (beyond what is expected of a normal precision build) and they are total hammers.
And while many manufacturers have decided to go somewhat proprietary for their large frame ARs, that doesn't mean there is magic happening. It is still the familiar stoner gas system functioning in a pretty simple way. Most of the proprietary shit is handguard attachment anyway and doesn't generally effect basic function. So yeah while I may not be able to put an LMT barrel in a Mega upper, or a DD handguard on a Larue upper, or a KAC barrel on a DPMS upper, and so on, that doesn't mean that you cannot just pick a spec, stick with it, and be fine. Is it as easy as an AR15? Certainly not, but it is far from difficult. Heck, that is all CLE did for their AR10s, took the Aero M5 with their lpk and spun up a barrel for the DPMS standard and stuck with it. Nothing complex at all (beyond what is expected of a normal precision build) and they are total hammers.
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If KAC is an option, it is either the solution, or you should go be poor somewhere else.
You don't know what you don't know. Just because you do not understand the differences doesn't mean they aren't there.
Or simply explaining a complex situation to someone who refuses to even do basic research and background is a collosal waste of my time and effort. You are not intellectually honest and are expecting to be spoon fed knowledge that has taken people years and decades to EARN. Even then you will most likely reply with something such as "xyz is just as good or reliable or durable and Billy Bob the forklift driver can build the same thing for half the price" or other such ignorant response. There is a reason less then a handful of large frame AR builders are used in harm's way. There is a reason why people pay more money for what you percieve as being no different because you fail to understand the subtlety and synergy of componets in the platform. If you are being honest with yourself, go learn and then report back.
Wow, what a nice ad hominem and strawman, with plenty of BS assumptions thrown in. No Primus, you don't want to give the details because they simply are NOT that complicated. Yes there are plenty of subtitles on large frames, but again quality companies have this down pat, as do the smiths. You don't want to admit that taking high quality parts and sending them to CLE or PVA or other quality smiths (or doing it yourself if you have the know-how) results in a better rifle for less money than a KAC, LMT, or JP right from the factory. You should really read my replies ITT before making such ludicrous claims.
For the 3rd time already, I'm not calling KAC, LMT, JP, and so on bad options. Just that in certain circumstances you can end up with a better rifle for less money and the OP should know that, and that is a fact.
For the 3rd time already, I'm not calling KAC, LMT, JP, and so on bad options. Just that in certain circumstances you can end up with a better rifle for less money and the OP should know that, and that is a fact.
Thanks for showing us again you haven't been reading my posts here. I already defined better as: lighter, just as reliable, more accurate, easier to suppress. That is the claim I can support. If you have a different definition, by all means enlighten us, and/or support your initial claim which you still have yet to do.
Please substantiate the claims you make.
Do you evaluate weapons for a large agency or DoD? How do YOU know what is more reliable or accurate. Please support these claims.
Do you evaluate weapons for a large agency or DoD? How do YOU know what is more reliable or accurate. Please support these claims.
I spoke with Jeff over at River’s Bend about doing a barrel for my LMT and based on my short discussion I got the impression that there are significant differences between the various flavors out there and it’s not as simple as putting parts together. One thing he noted about the MWS was the large barrel extension being a big contributor to that systems accuracy potential. That is exclusive to the LMT and in my opinion is a feature worth the money as I can swap barrels out in minutes.
For what it’s worth... carry on gents...
For what it’s worth... carry on gents...
Sure, the key is to use quality components from reliable companies and get a good smith (or again yourself if you are capable which money on this forum are) to build it. While certainly not limited to something like the following, this would be a rifle which would exemplify the traits I've stated ITT:
**Upper**
- Barrel: Proof Research 20in 6.5CM with +2 gas system $829. Or you can have your smith spin up any number of high quality blanks (Bartlien, Krieger, Rock Creek Cut, etc) and use a JP barrel extension, and of course match the bolt.
- Upper: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (includes lower below). Obviously you'd thermalfit whichever barrel/extension you went with.
- Port Door: V7 lightweight $37.
- Handguard: 2a Armament Xanthos XRVC 15in $264. Or insert your favorite DPMS high handguard here, MI, Odinworks, etc.
- Gas Block: Superlative Arms .875 (or whatever you cut the barrel to, the linked barrel needs .875) clamp on AGB (or SLR if SA is out of stock) $90. Loctited, or set-screw dimple if you want to go that far.
- Bolt Carrier Group: JP High Pressure Enhanced Bolt assembly group $213 + JP Low Mass .308 carrier $267. Can probably find both on sale elsewhere for cheaper. Now this is key, since the bolt and barrel aren't matched (assuming buying linked barrel) the thing to do is to buy the bolt first, and send it in to whomever you get the barrel from to make sure it is matched to the chamber.
- Gas Tube: Comes with barrel. If not using a +2 then the V7 Inconel gas tubes for ~$60.
- Charging Handle: PRI Gas Buster $80, or a BCM if you prefer $50. Radian and Noveske also make nice ones in this price range, but I haven't tested them myself.
- Muzzle Device: Place holder is a V7 titanium 5/8x24 brake, but really whatever suppressor floats your boat. If I were buying today I'd get a Q Trash Panda (instead of my current Omega although the Omega is great).
**Lower**
- Lower Receiver: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (included above).
- Small Parts: This is where you can save some money by just buying a CMMG or, Aero AR10./308 LPK without the trigger or grip for around $40. But if you want to go all out and save a bit more weight/add a bit more durability you can just get all the V7 titanium shit: V7 Takedown pins $35. V7 Bolt Catch $27. V7 Ambi Safety $59. V7 TI End plate+Castle Nut $59. V7 Buffer retainer $7. V7 TI Grip screw $7. V7 mag catch/release $46. Finished off with a few extra springs.
- Trigger: Hiperfire Eclipse $199, or insert your favorite trigger here.
- Buffer Tube: V7 2055 $79.
- Buffer Weight+Spring: JP SCS Gen 2 $130.
- Stock: Luth-AR Carbine Stock $115.
- Grip: I'm a huge fan of the Hogue 15 degree $17, but there are a ton of great ones out there like the BCM or similar grip $19 (personal preference part).
Total for just the rifle is between $2800-3300 depending on options chosen and it should weight a little under 7lbs. Just to restate what I've already had to say too many times, sending this off to ADCO, Compass Lake Engineering, Whoever Proof Research recommends work on their barrels, Craddock Precision, River's Bend Gun Co, MSTN rifles, and Patriot Valley Arms would net the desired result.
So please Primus, tell me why all of these high quality components from excellent companies put together by an expert smith fails to live up to my claims. Tell me how a JP bolt matched to a JP barrel extension with a JP SCS and an adjustable gas block is somehow going to be less reliable than a JP. Please tell my why Padom can make .75moa AR10s for $1000 at home, but we are all too dumb? Tell me why CLE uses the DPMS standard parts and turns out reliable hammers, but somehow couldn't do it with the above parts?
**Upper**
- Barrel: Proof Research 20in 6.5CM with +2 gas system $829. Or you can have your smith spin up any number of high quality blanks (Bartlien, Krieger, Rock Creek Cut, etc) and use a JP barrel extension, and of course match the bolt.
- Upper: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (includes lower below). Obviously you'd thermalfit whichever barrel/extension you went with.
- Port Door: V7 lightweight $37.
- Handguard: 2a Armament Xanthos XRVC 15in $264. Or insert your favorite DPMS high handguard here, MI, Odinworks, etc.
- Gas Block: Superlative Arms .875 (or whatever you cut the barrel to, the linked barrel needs .875) clamp on AGB (or SLR if SA is out of stock) $90. Loctited, or set-screw dimple if you want to go that far.
- Bolt Carrier Group: JP High Pressure Enhanced Bolt assembly group $213 + JP Low Mass .308 carrier $267. Can probably find both on sale elsewhere for cheaper. Now this is key, since the bolt and barrel aren't matched (assuming buying linked barrel) the thing to do is to buy the bolt first, and send it in to whomever you get the barrel from to make sure it is matched to the chamber.
- Gas Tube: Comes with barrel. If not using a +2 then the V7 Inconel gas tubes for ~$60.
- Charging Handle: PRI Gas Buster $80, or a BCM if you prefer $50. Radian and Noveske also make nice ones in this price range, but I haven't tested them myself.
- Muzzle Device: Place holder is a V7 titanium 5/8x24 brake, but really whatever suppressor floats your boat. If I were buying today I'd get a Q Trash Panda (instead of my current Omega although the Omega is great).
**Lower**
- Lower Receiver: 2a Armament Xanthos $325 (included above).
- Small Parts: This is where you can save some money by just buying a CMMG or, Aero AR10./308 LPK without the trigger or grip for around $40. But if you want to go all out and save a bit more weight/add a bit more durability you can just get all the V7 titanium shit: V7 Takedown pins $35. V7 Bolt Catch $27. V7 Ambi Safety $59. V7 TI End plate+Castle Nut $59. V7 Buffer retainer $7. V7 TI Grip screw $7. V7 mag catch/release $46. Finished off with a few extra springs.
- Trigger: Hiperfire Eclipse $199, or insert your favorite trigger here.
- Buffer Tube: V7 2055 $79.
- Buffer Weight+Spring: JP SCS Gen 2 $130.
- Stock: Luth-AR Carbine Stock $115.
- Grip: I'm a huge fan of the Hogue 15 degree $17, but there are a ton of great ones out there like the BCM or similar grip $19 (personal preference part).
Total for just the rifle is between $2800-3300 depending on options chosen and it should weight a little under 7lbs. Just to restate what I've already had to say too many times, sending this off to ADCO, Compass Lake Engineering, Whoever Proof Research recommends work on their barrels, Craddock Precision, River's Bend Gun Co, MSTN rifles, and Patriot Valley Arms would net the desired result.
So please Primus, tell me why all of these high quality components from excellent companies put together by an expert smith fails to live up to my claims. Tell me how a JP bolt matched to a JP barrel extension with a JP SCS and an adjustable gas block is somehow going to be less reliable than a JP. Please tell my why Padom can make .75moa AR10s for $1000 at home, but we are all too dumb? Tell me why CLE uses the DPMS standard parts and turns out reliable hammers, but somehow couldn't do it with the above parts?
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I had a bud with a JP. Not a rifle that I would rely on. Finicky as shit with respect to ammo. Give it what it liked, it was good. Anything outside of that, it sucked. Don’t put it in the league of Larue or KAC or GAP.
No one doubts that someone could build one of anything and get it to work and have an advantage. People like you fail to recognize that reliability is key and there is NO WAY for you to even open your mouth there without looking like a fool.
To also answer your assertion that I can do it better. I am sure I could. However, my time is worth much more than yours evidently. I would rather buy and be happy than go through what you describe.
So your defense Nik H is that "you know a guy" (personal anacdote=/=evidence) and "you are too busy." In other words you cannot even begin to support your claims or challenge mine. Let me know if that ever changes. Until then, you should probably post in the JP thread about your "friends JP."
bigjake83, thank you for pointing that out (and being generally awesome ITT), I just wanted to set the record straight. I assure you I won't waste much more of my time stating the obvious over and over again. OP now has the facts and the list, so not much more to say.
bigjake83, thank you for pointing that out (and being generally awesome ITT), I just wanted to set the record straight. I assure you I won't waste much more of my time stating the obvious over and over again. OP now has the facts and the list, so not much more to say.
Who the Fuck are you to ask anyone about anything... You've been on SH for all of a minute, and have done nothing to contribute at all !!!
I'm Retired Military with over 10 years in Federal Law Enforcement and was a Armourer at MCB Quantico, and worked with the guys at Crane and Lockheed countless times. So for all of us here on SH PLEASE tells us all who the fuck you are and what gives you the right to fuck with and talk shit to people who you don't even know.
This is the exact reason why there is never a Snipers Hide Members weekend gathering because people like you Penis would get Ventilated.. Oops man down!!
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Who the Fuck are you to ask anyone about anything... You've been on SH for all of a minute, and have done nothing to contribute at all !!!
I'm Retired Military with over 10 years in Federal Law Enforcement and was a Armourer at MCB Quantico, and worked with the guys at Crane and Lockheed countless times. So for all of us here on SH PLEASE tells us all who the fuck you are and what gives you the right to fuck with and talk shit to people who you don't even know.
This is the exact reason why there is never a Snipers Hide Members weekend gathering because people like you Penis would get Ventilated.. Oops man down!!
Keep it coming, you amuse me. I want to hear more about how your "Internet friends" won't meet you in real life. Lifes hard bruh. Maybe get a dog?
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So Mr. Asbergers,
What about my build sucks? Please fucking explain that to me. Truth is you know the build is fucking solid, you just can't admit I am right because your a little bitch and embarrassed.
RRA is dogshit, homo level quality. Been that way for 20 years. Thats why no one with 2 brain cells to rub together runs them. Built way to tight and unreliable as shit. Only half way decent part of the gun is the Wilson barrels they source. Big fucking deal, best component of a full scale manufacture is a part they don't even make that anyone can buy from any parts supplier in the country. Parts assemblers, and shitty ones at that.
Please show me where I "he believes companies like Seekins, JP, LMT ..". I can build a better gun then seekins cheaper, JP are game guns and LMT while solid and reliable shooters, are fucking boar anchors. Thats my opinion of them, but please tell me how I praise them. I'll wait. They aren't even in the top 3. Nice try putting words in my mouth, I know its hard to beat me on actual facts honestly.
I used to shoot at Quantico as part of the club. Talk about a poorly ran range with dickheads galore. Nothing worse then highpower fags with a stick up their ass. You sound like you would fit in great.
Ok Primus, thanks once and for all for showing everyone you have not a fucking clue what you are talking about, and are utterly unable to support your arguments or contest mine. It is also quite clear you are nothing but a wannabe fanboy of the worst kind.
In addition to these non-too-flattering traits the mere fact you don't possess the self awareness to understand why you are in no position to be typing the following quote shows some level of self-delusion I have no desire to engage with further:
"What about my build sucks? Please fucking explain that to me." -Primus, after failing to explain why my build sucks and his brands iz da bestest.
I'll leave you to continue your hissy fit in the face of the facts.
In addition to these non-too-flattering traits the mere fact you don't possess the self awareness to understand why you are in no position to be typing the following quote shows some level of self-delusion I have no desire to engage with further:
"What about my build sucks? Please fucking explain that to me." -Primus, after failing to explain why my build sucks and his brands iz da bestest.
I'll leave you to continue your hissy fit in the face of the facts.
Ive owned them all. Still own most of them. Like my EMC head and shoulders above the rest. Pretty much matches my OBR for accuracy with less weight. I have had no reliability issues with any of them but reports from those I trust behind the fence tell me the KAC's are the only ones that stay together after a steady diet of Ml118. I had the early version of the LMT. Nice rifle it just swung like a railroad tie. I felt it was the way the barrel carried its weight around that massive collar where the receiver clamps it. Accuracy was not on par with the others.
Did yours have the ball milling? Takes some heft out of that thinks barrel. I want to say something like 8oz shaved off from a 16" gun.
Sexy girl...I regret not buying one of the used ones from the batch a few years ago for $3300.
What you're saying very well may be true, but my experience with KAC has exposed quite a bit in terms of "truth." Part of the "truth" about KAC is they don't produce a lot of their parts, so no matter how good their engineering *may* be, the "reliability" of their platform comes down to the quality of their subcontracted-out parts. In my case, their own (written) statement was that their BCG supplier provided them with a defective BC. Of course, the thing is back in for service after that "fix" did not completely resolve the problem(s).
Relatedly, doesn't LMT produce a significant portion of KAC's parts?
I was under the impression they make most of their parts in-house however certain things there is no economic reason to make in house. They may also contract with machine shops to make parts based on their specs but if they are doing propper QA then it really minimizes the issue. That is a pretty shitty excuse from CS and I would have been pissed too. They are generally better then that but they know their shit is good and some people there are not very humble about it.
Ironically. KAC was the contracted manufacture for the CRANE/LMT SOPMOD stock. I assume B5 handles that now but who knows. These companies are pretty tight lipped and manufacture sourcing and contracting.
Ironically. KAC was the contracted manufacture for the CRANE/LMT SOPMOD stock. I assume B5 handles that now but who knows. These companies are pretty tight lipped and manufacture sourcing and contracting.
I agree. I'm sure someone at the government has all of this info . . . I wonder if we could get it with a FOIA request
Potss...well said and good advise if anyone decides to not buy off the shelf. This has been my experience as well and much more satisfying than picking up a gun anyone can get down the street. Getting a rifle that is built to what I want for my intended purposes, doing the research, wasting time on forums like this reading and asking questions, collecting the parts, building the AR...all priceless.
Don't be too harsh on him Chad. The autist doesn't know any better. He thinks anyone with a file and hacksaw can produce the same artwork you do. Gun parts are just like Legos after all. ?
I would find it hard to believe there is a more well made AR10 out there than an LMT MWS. I have played with Knights rifles and while they're nice I don't think they warrant the price tag. The monolithic upper is priceless when it comes to utilizing a rail mounted rangefinder (or standard laser) as your deflection is very minimal compared to a 2-piece upper when applying pressure
Also--everyone needs to remember that the MWS by default ships with a Chrome Lined barrel. Not SS. So when a Larue or Knights shoots better out of the box that's no shocker. The 18 or 20" SS LMT barrels would be a much more realistic reference.
The MWS was built as a withstand all abuse battle rifle with the ability to almost instantly change roles by way of a barrel swap.
Too heavy? It's like a 1.2lb difference to a E2. After you add your MLOK attachments to your wingy dingy slim rail probably a 1lb difference.
That's one tub of fucking butter.
Oh and FWIW I'd never trust my life to a "build rifle." Ever.
Also--everyone needs to remember that the MWS by default ships with a Chrome Lined barrel. Not SS. So when a Larue or Knights shoots better out of the box that's no shocker. The 18 or 20" SS LMT barrels would be a much more realistic reference.
The MWS was built as a withstand all abuse battle rifle with the ability to almost instantly change roles by way of a barrel swap.
Too heavy? It's like a 1.2lb difference to a E2. After you add your MLOK attachments to your wingy dingy slim rail probably a 1lb difference.
That's one tub of fucking butter.
Oh and FWIW I'd never trust my life to a "build rifle." Ever.
When you have 90lbs+ on your back plus armor, webgear, ammo,ect climbing up a 30* incline at 8000asl, ounces equal pounds and pounds equal weight. Weight that would be better spent packing more ammo, pyro or batteries.
For a gun that lives on a bench it doesn't matter. For something you have to hump, it does.
Personally I would rather have a SCAR17 over both of them. Will shoot moa with 118lr, way lighter, more reliable then both, foldable for working around vic and ac and plenty of real estate for clipons, peq,ect. If you need something to reach out further then a 17, bring the 300's or 338's.
For a gun that lives on a bench it doesn't matter. For something you have to hump, it does.
Personally I would rather have a SCAR17 over both of them. Will shoot moa with 118lr, way lighter, more reliable then both, foldable for working around vic and ac and plenty of real estate for clipons, peq,ect. If you need something to reach out further then a 17, bring the 300's or 338's.
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