Kowa TSN 821-M clarity question

[Amanda4461]

Hoping someone can provide a cure, other than to just buy a new scope
My 821-M is approximately 22 years old, previously used for Service Rifle scoring across the course. It has the factory 20-60x eyepiece. I have noticed that the ability of the scope to provide a clear view of a 5.56mm bullet hole at 100 yards is not very good. Using a 25 yard NRA B-16 Target with the 10-ring colored red, I can pick out hits in the red clearly, but hits in the black are often hard to pick up. Hits in the white are easily missed. I get my best bullet hole visibility at 30x. Of course, seeing a centerfire spotter in the pits was always easy. Seeing my 7.62mm holes was always easy. Since I no longer shoot the M-1A or Garand, I am hoping someone can suggest a proper fixed-power lens that will enable me to spot 100 yard 5.56mm bullet holes in NRA Target paper, and hits on steel plates out to 400 yards. I realize that the old Kowa doesn’t have the best quality lens, but a new eyepiece would be much better than buying a new $$ scope.
However, if a new scope must be purchased, what model do you suggest?
Thanks for the help!

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Kowa TSE-17HC 27x Long Eye Relief (old model)
Kowa TSE-17HE 27x Long Eye Relief (new model)
Kowa TSE-14WE 32x Wide Angle

 

[sinister]

I passed my 821 to my son. I now have an 883. I have the new zoom eyepiece, but have since gone back to the fixed 25x Long Eye Relief eyepiece.

I always liked the 27x Long Eye Relief eyepiece for the 821 and 823. The fluorite lenses were even clearer than the 821 (which is still a good spotter -- just not as bright or clear).

 

[FatBoy]

I can see them at 100 with a 27 wide angle long eye relief but not 200y where my buddies old 631 does fine. I assume the glass just isn't up to it. Funny thing is, I can still see black pasters on a black target at 1k if the mirage isn't too bad. Go figure....

 

[BountyHunter]

I just emailed Kowa on my 821. It has the paint melting. Seems they had a bad batch. When this virus is over, they want it back. They will send it to Japan, go thru it front to back and repaint it but 2-3 months. Might want to try that to have a like new scope.

 

[Amanda4461]

I just emailed Kowa on my 821. It has the paint melting. Seems they had a bad batch. When this virus is over, they want it back. They will send it to Japan, go thru it front to back and repaint it but 2-3 months. Might want to try that to have a like new scope.

My scope looks great, but the 20-60x eyepiece barely rotates unless I take it out of the scope body to twist it. I’ll get in touch with Kowa and see if they will fix it, or find an OEM 25 or 30x eyepiece that I can buy. I cannot find a lens that fits this model, even on flea bay. Thanks for the idea.
Amanda

 

[FatBoy]

My scope looks great, but the 20-60x eyepiece barely rotates unless I take it out of the scope body to twist it. I’ll get in touch with Kowa and see if they will fix it, or find an OEM 25 or 30x eyepiece that I can buy. I cannot find a lens that fits this model, even on flea bay. Thanks for the idea.
Amanda

You may want to call Championship Choice when they open back up and see if they have any left. They have a lot of older or obscure stuff usually.

 

[BountyHunter]

Let me see if I have the 27x LER I used to have

 

[brt1963]

I just emailed Kowa on my 821. It has the paint melting. Seems they had a bad batch. When this virus is over, they want it back. They will send it to Japan, go thru it front to back and repaint it but 2-3 months. Might want to try that to have a like new scope.

We did that with my wife's 821. They did a great job, and cleaned and resealed lenses. All at their cost.

 

[bburnham]

I have an Kowa 821 ,purchased new about 2005, with long ER 27x. It still does everything I need, including 5.56 holes at 100yds.

 

[Amanda4461]

I decided to contact Kowa and see if they will rebuild my eyepiece. After yesterday’s range work, I took pictures of the eyepiece, and gave the serial number to Kowa. I don’t remember the 20x-60x eyepiece sounding like it was full of loose marbles upon shaking it, like it does now. Alternatively, if Kowa will sell me the adapter to attach a newer model lens, I would be happy to buy a new lens. I believe that 20+ years of riding around in the back of my suv, attached to the scope body, may have vibrated the eyepiece to destruction. From the sound of the lens, it doesn’t surprise me that the eyepiece won’t focus. Regardless, I’ll be keeping the eyepiece that I end up with, in a padded case, disconnected from the scope. Live and learn

 

[DaveM]

I decided to contact Kowa and see if they will rebuild my eyepiece. After yesterday’s range work, I took pictures of the eyepiece, and gave the serial number to Kowa. I don’t remember the 20x-60x eyepiece sounding like it was full of loose marbles upon shaking it, like it does now. Alternatively, if Kowa will sell me the adapter to attach a newer model lens, I would be happy to buy a new lens. I believe that 20+ years of riding around in the back of my suv, attached to the scope body, may have vibrated the eyepiece to destruction. From the sound of the lens, it doesn’t surprise me that the eyepiece won’t focus. Regardless, I’ll be keeping the eyepiece that I end up with, in a padded case, disconnected from the scope. Live and learn

I wouldn’t hesitate to send it back to Kowa. Their warranty service has been praised by many Highpower shooters over the years. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just sent you a new scope.

 

[m1match]

I agree, I'd send your scope back to Kowa. I have a TSN-821 w/27x LER eyepiece that's now 30 years old, and I can see 22 cal holes at 200 yds no problem and in the right light I can see 22 cal holes out to 300. I had the issue of the rubberized body coating becoming sticky sloughing off, I sent it in and they rebuilt my scope with a new or reconditioned scope body and sent it back. My scope repair was done here in the US service center and didn't have to go back to Japan.

OP you remarked that the old Kowa glass isn't the best quality, but I think you're selling your scope short. Top quality optics from 30 years ago are not worse than top quality optics today, optical technology has not changed that much and our old Kowas had really really good glass back then and today. The only Kowas that had better optical quality were the more expensive TSN-821s with ED glass or maybe the top end Swarovskis, Zeiss, or Leicas.

 

[BountyHunter]

I have a 27x LER eyepiece for $200 shipped. Like new. Took off to put the zoom on right after I got the scope.

 

[Amanda4461]

I have a 27x LER eyepiece for $200 shipped. Like new. Took off to put the zoom on right after I got the scope.

Thanks to BountyHunter, my Kowa is back in useful condition, and I can now see .22 caliber bullet holes at 100+ yards. Kowa in California also responded to my request for repair with an RMA number for a warranty repair. If they can fix it, I’ll see the zoom eyepiece back in a few months. Great news all around. Thanks for the help!

 

[BountyHunter]

Mine had the "melting paint" issue from a bad batch of paint and left for California yesterday. Then to Japan for complete overhaul. They will repaint it and go through everything. Only issue is 2 -6 months before back.

 

[Bones125]

Bounty hunter do you still have the 27 ler for sale if so what model is it? I’m looking for a 17 he thanks

 

[BountyHunter]

sold, sorry

 

[gr8fuldoug]

If anyone is looking we just got some Kowa TSE-17HE 27x Long Eye Relief eyepieces in. Give a call, 516-217-1000