Kreiger vs Criterion on FA M110

[geronimocmc]

I've done a fair amount of Googling regarding this topic, and your forum kept coming up. You guys provided some top notch information for my general questions, so I decided to join and ask directly the question I have.

I am going to grab myself an FAR-308 M110. Yeah, I know its not quite an M110, as I am not independently wealthy enough to snag up something from Knights. I could obviously buy a Kinghts clone, or a build something a lot nicer, but I have too many other hobbies. For my purposes, the FA I think will probably suffice. I was looking through the options on their site, and the Geiselle SSA-E sounds like it makes a lot of sense so I want to do that.

My question to you guys is regarding the barrel. I know a Criterion is the basic one for the rifle, and if you shell out some dough, you can grab a Kreiger from the factory from FA. Many people speak well of FA. I've heard a ton of good things about the Kreiger barrels. For my purposes, this rifle will mostly be shot at 300 yards. Sometimes it may get out to 500. I'm merely punching holes in paper with it. Is it worth actually shelling out for the Kreiger? Are my groups going to be tighter, or is the Criterion most likely going to shoot better than I can? Is there anything else to consider in this arena? Thanks guys.

 

[runningbear]

A lot of button rifled barrels will shoot lights out if properly stress relieved. I have a Criterion and a Krieger. The Krieger does shoot better, but not by much. So if I had to pick one, Krieger all the way.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Krieger is definitely a higher end barrel, being at the top of the heap among barrel makers any way you look at it. But AFAIK Criterion puts out a great product for the price, definitely one of the better lower-price barrels to be sure. IMO for your purpose you'd be better off with the Criterion and whatever extra money the Krieger would've required, spend it on ammo/components. Once you've dialed in your form for squeezing out every bit of accuracy from a big bore AR and have burned up the Criterion, then you can rebarrel with something fancier if deemed necessary or wanted.

 

[geronimocmc]

Yeah, thats basically what I was wondering. No doubt its better, but is it 500 dollars better for someone who is not really using it for its full capability? Cost versus reward basically. Maybe if I was shooting in matches, or regularly using it to longer ranges. At this point I am leaning towards Criterion. What you're saying makes some sense and its the opinion I have heard elsewhere. It might be wise to spend the money I would have on mags, a nice case, a decent rear shooting bag, etc etc. I also had been considering going all out and adding the Knights stock. I know its a lot of money for a stock that probably isnt all that nice, but, if youre going for the look its the way to go.

Anyone else got any thoughts?

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I would tend to agree with the Criterion advise. At 300-500 yds, it will be plenty accurate. You are likely to be the variable that is more important than the barrel at first. Large frame gassers are a different beast than bolt guns are. If it's a "hobby" gun, shoot the Criterion until you get good enough that it becomes your limiting factor. By then you will know if it's worth it to you to upgrade or not.
Also, $500 more seems like quite a bit of an upcharge.

 

[Waorani]

There's only about a $300 price difference in FA barrels between Criterion and Kreiger of a given length so not sure why they are upcharging $475 ($510 for matte!) for Kreiger on a complete rifle. Maybe I'm missing something but if your set on FA, I'd give them a call to see if they can explain.

 

[bfoosh006]

Read the last paragraph at least... I have also read, that Cut rifling will last longer then button rifling... but haven't burnt out any barrel yet.

After reading the whole article, IMHO, you have a better barrel being cut from Krieger... is it worth $500 extra dollars with your intended use ?

Ummm... not at that price increase from FA ... I mean they don't even give you a discount for the deleted Criterion barrel ...and...

I doubt it it would be that much more accurate given your intended shooting, ( no offense intended to you at all. )

Criterion barrels are very good... my Cheap ol' $700 PSA PA 10 GenII with its Criterion Hybrid barrel will shoot 10rd FGMM 168gr just at 1MOA routinely... and I am very happy with it.

$500 will buy a lot of ammo for practice...or towards a good scope....

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20...anufacture.htm

 

[geronimocmc]

I would tend to agree with the Criterion advise. At 300-500 yds, it will be plenty accurate. You are likely to be the variable that is more important than the barrel at first. Large frame gassers are a different beast than bolt guns are. If it's a "hobby" gun, shoot the Criterion until you get good enough that it becomes your limiting factor. By then you will know if it's worth it to you to upgrade or not.
Also, $500 more seems like quite a bit of an upcharge.

Yeah it really is. I've decided to go all out and try and use Leupolds Fed/Mil program to my advantage. Thats 500 bucks close to that I am. And I will definetly be the variable at this stage.

 

[geronimocmc]

R

I doubt it it would be that much more accurate given your intended shooting, ( no offense intended to you at all. )

Criterion barrels are very good... my Cheap ol' $700 PSA PA 10 GenII with its Criterion Hybrid barrel will shoot 10rd FGMM 168gr just at 1MOA routinely... and I am very happy with it.
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Agreed.

 

[Greene]

I have used several CBI barrels with good results. There are benefits to the higher end barrels. Picked up a used M110 CBI/Fulton here on the hide last year. Threw it together and she regularly shoots .4-.5 groups. Have shot it all the way to 905 yds with 175 smk.

 

[longshot2000]

Lots of good comments here. Agree with all. I build M110s -- the real clones. And, I build the barrels. My choices are more about historical authenticity than the most accurate barrel. For example, historically, the twist is 1:11.25. I think a 1:10 is probably better if you are using 175 grain.

FA is a great outfit. Criterion is a lot better than many give them credit. They are constantly innovating, and good people to work with. There are a handful of button rifle blank makers that are really good, and overlap on some of the cut rifle makers. Military expectations of the M110 was to be at or just under 1.0 MOA. My experience, and polling others here, 0.75 is about the best you can expect with a gas-driven .308. Given that, I don't think you will get any better performance on the Krieger than the Criterion at 300 yards. Competitively at 600.. maybe.. but not much that would be measurable. Also, the skill of the smith that does the reaming and chambering and drills the gas port so that it does not hit the groove is much more important than the choice of Krieger v. Criterion.