I am sure i am over thinking again, but I am doing some barrel brake in work on a Krieger gain twist barrel. I am doing one shot and clean method and i am getting a ton of copper out of one shot. I dont have this much copper in any of my other barrel even after 30-40 firings. I was a little surprised to see such a blue patch. Anyone else have a krieger that has done this? I guess i thought kriegers were hand lapped and all that other good stuff. I havent shot any groups yet so i really dont have any real worries just a bit surprised is all. Lee
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Gunsmithing Krieger with copper??
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
Re: Krieger with copper??
My Krieger loads up a more than my Schneider but it's not enough to really cause much concern. I only clean when they stop shooting well anyway.
My Krieger loads up a more than my Schneider but it's not enough to really cause much concern. I only clean when they stop shooting well anyway.
Re: Krieger with copper??
might not be the barrel...Take a look at the chamber.Could be some burring around the lead lands from the chamber job?
might not be the barrel...Take a look at the chamber.Could be some burring around the lead lands from the chamber job?
Re: Krieger with copper??
I've always wondered about gain twist rifling causing a problem like this. It seems the bullet would constantly engrave more and more of the bullet as it travels down the bore. I mean the rifling width is the same throughout, yet it's angle is changing, thus engraving more of the bullets surface area as it goes down the barrel.
I've always wondered about gain twist rifling causing a problem like this. It seems the bullet would constantly engrave more and more of the bullet as it travels down the bore. I mean the rifling width is the same throughout, yet it's angle is changing, thus engraving more of the bullets surface area as it goes down the barrel.
Re: Krieger with copper??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: distantfoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered about gain twist rifling causing a problem like this. It seems the bullet would constantly engrave more and more of the bullet as it travels down the bore. I mean the rifling width is the same throughout, yet it's angle is changing, thus engraving more of the bullets surface area as it goes down the barrel. </div></div>
Since I started hearing about gains, I have wondered the exact same thing.
My newest Krieger (standard twist) had a little copper for about 5 shots, then none. Got 200 down it now, and still getting nothing, it's a 6.5x47 fwiw...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: distantfoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always wondered about gain twist rifling causing a problem like this. It seems the bullet would constantly engrave more and more of the bullet as it travels down the bore. I mean the rifling width is the same throughout, yet it's angle is changing, thus engraving more of the bullets surface area as it goes down the barrel. </div></div>
Since I started hearing about gains, I have wondered the exact same thing.
My newest Krieger (standard twist) had a little copper for about 5 shots, then none. Got 200 down it now, and still getting nothing, it's a 6.5x47 fwiw...
Re: Krieger with copper??
I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee
I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee
Re: Krieger with copper??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. </div></div>
Are they gain twists too?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. </div></div>
Are they gain twists too?
Re: Krieger with copper??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee </div></div>
Lee, randy is prob right. What happens is the burrs on the throat can cause excessive coppering for a while. The burr can take small rips off the bullet and with the heat turn to plasma and deposit down the barrel. It should go away after a while.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee </div></div>
Lee, randy is prob right. What happens is the burrs on the throat can cause excessive coppering for a while. The burr can take small rips off the bullet and with the heat turn to plasma and deposit down the barrel. It should go away after a while.
Re: Krieger with copper??
Havent shot any groups with it yet. I am sure it will clear up. I was just suprised to see such a large amount after only one round. Thanks Lee
Havent shot any groups with it yet. I am sure it will clear up. I was just suprised to see such a large amount after only one round. Thanks Lee
Re: Krieger with copper??
A buddy of mine and I both bought "Rock" rifles from GAP around the same time. Both had rockcreek barrels on them. His stopped coppering up after 6 shots, mine heavily copper fouled for for the first 20 shots and was still copper fouling pretty good even at 40-50 rounds. I still did the "break-in" per GAP's website. After about 100 rounds the barrel barely had any signs of copper fouling (I stopped the shoot and clean method around 15-20 rounds).
The barrel was shooting sub-1/2MOA the entire time. I really would not worry about it. I have abused the hell out of this barrel for the past 6600+ rounds and it still shoot like a LASER! I'm amazed at what this thing does every time I take it out.
A buddy of mine and I both bought "Rock" rifles from GAP around the same time. Both had rockcreek barrels on them. His stopped coppering up after 6 shots, mine heavily copper fouled for for the first 20 shots and was still copper fouling pretty good even at 40-50 rounds. I still did the "break-in" per GAP's website. After about 100 rounds the barrel barely had any signs of copper fouling (I stopped the shoot and clean method around 15-20 rounds).
The barrel was shooting sub-1/2MOA the entire time. I really would not worry about it. I have abused the hell out of this barrel for the past 6600+ rounds and it still shoot like a LASER! I'm amazed at what this thing does every time I take it out.
Re: Krieger with copper??
The gain twist rifling has nothing to do with copper fouling! So far all the gt barrels we have made there has been no issues with copper fouling. Benchrest, F-Class, Palma, Tactical etc....
There are other things that can cause copper fouling besides the barrel itself such as: different lot of bullets, velocity, how the barrel is being cleaned and cared for, fire lapping all can cause it to foul and yes a rough throat from the finish reamer or throating reamer can cause it also.
Also some barrels can show a tendency to foul more when new but as long as there is no accuracy issues shoot the gun. You usually will notice the fouling to drop off after x amount of rounds.
If the fouling keeps on increasing and causes accuracy issues than there is a problem. But what is causing the problem?
Later, Frank
Barltein Barrels
The gain twist rifling has nothing to do with copper fouling! So far all the gt barrels we have made there has been no issues with copper fouling. Benchrest, F-Class, Palma, Tactical etc....
There are other things that can cause copper fouling besides the barrel itself such as: different lot of bullets, velocity, how the barrel is being cleaned and cared for, fire lapping all can cause it to foul and yes a rough throat from the finish reamer or throating reamer can cause it also.
Also some barrels can show a tendency to foul more when new but as long as there is no accuracy issues shoot the gun. You usually will notice the fouling to drop off after x amount of rounds.
If the fouling keeps on increasing and causes accuracy issues than there is a problem. But what is causing the problem?
Later, Frank
Barltein Barrels
Re: Krieger with copper??
Thanks Frank for clearing that up. Most of us dont know to much about gain twist barrels. Are they for real? Is there an advantage to having one over a standard twist barrel? Just kinda interested in the hole idea behind it.
My barrel is starting to act a little nicer to me. A good friend of mine suggested i use some Kroil before i shot it again, so i did. the copper was reduced dramatically even after a five shot string. Don't really know what all that means but i am thinking the barrel will come around. Thanks Lee
Thanks Frank for clearing that up. Most of us dont know to much about gain twist barrels. Are they for real? Is there an advantage to having one over a standard twist barrel? Just kinda interested in the hole idea behind it.
My barrel is starting to act a little nicer to me. A good friend of mine suggested i use some Kroil before i shot it again, so i did. the copper was reduced dramatically even after a five shot string. Don't really know what all that means but i am thinking the barrel will come around. Thanks Lee
Re: Krieger with copper??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee </div></div>
All night? Use KG12 you will thank me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see the copper inside the barrel. It isnt the chamber. My smith is better than that. He would see it if there was a bur. All of my other krieger barrels are perfect. You cant buy a trace of copper out of them. I will call krieger tomorrow and ask them what they think about this. This just seems strange as there is a bunch of copper in this barrel for only one bullet going down the tube. One shot and clean has taken my hole night and i am only on number 7. Crap!!!! Lee </div></div>
All night? Use KG12 you will thank me.
Re: Krieger with copper??
I am happy to report that my dasher is shooting Etty bitty groups and that the copper fowling is no longer an issue. It took about 20 rounds with the help of a little kroil and all is well with my Krieger gain twist barrel. Lee
I am happy to report that my dasher is shooting Etty bitty groups and that the copper fowling is no longer an issue. It took about 20 rounds with the help of a little kroil and all is well with my Krieger gain twist barrel. Lee
Re: Krieger with copper??
Well, I'm sure glad you didn't jump to conclusions and tarnish Krieger's reputation.
Well, I'm sure glad you didn't jump to conclusions and tarnish Krieger's reputation.
Re: Krieger with copper??
I love all my Krieger barrels and to be real honest the only other barrel i would buy for any of my bench guns would be a bartlein. I have a bartlein on my 30BR and it is a laser!!!! Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I like to spend my free time hanging out here talking with you fine people, and i hope it didnt sound like i was disappointed with my krieger barrel. Like i said above, this was just the first time i had ever seen this (new experience) so of course i was curious as to what the deal was. Lee
I love all my Krieger barrels and to be real honest the only other barrel i would buy for any of my bench guns would be a bartlein. I have a bartlein on my 30BR and it is a laser!!!! Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I like to spend my free time hanging out here talking with you fine people, and i hope it didnt sound like i was disappointed with my krieger barrel. Like i said above, this was just the first time i had ever seen this (new experience) so of course i was curious as to what the deal was. Lee
