-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Night Vision L-3 cnvd-lr
- Thread starter GATO1
- Start date
I have carried one around for several years. Hands down my favorite i2 clip on ever made. It’s extremely light weight, low profile and easy to use. The focus can be adjusted far easier than any other clip on out there. The image quality is very nice and usable to 20x with certain scopes and lighting conditions. The pvs-30 will give you basically the same image and magnification range but in my opinion in a worse housing. You can get it with a white phosphor filmless tube also. Can’t beat that!
Jay
Jay
They're great units, IMO it's biggest benefits are weight, focus location, and white phosphor. Downside is it's only rated to 308 for recoil.
Compared to a PVS-30 for example it weighs half of it. The 30 is available with white phosphor as well but you can get the M2124LR for a couple thousand less with white phosphor. The focus location on top of the housing is also way easier to reach and use than the 30 which is a huge benefit if you're going to be shooting at distances that require a lot of adjustments. I typically find a happy medium that works well for 50ish-600 yards without requiring any fine tuning which are where most of my shots occur.
I know you didn't ask about the PVS-30 but IMO it's the closest thing to compare it to and is also a great unit. The PVS-30 definitely feels beefier however and is recoil rated to 50 cal whereas the M2124LR is only rated up to 308. Now take this for what it's worth as I'm not an L3 engineer but jarring shock is definitely worse for units like this than recoil energy (I'd think a heavy braked or suppressed magnum would be fine) so if you're planning on using one on a gas gun, especially a large frame 308 platform, I'm not sure I'd choose the M2124LR as those actions batter shit pretty good. I've got no long term with one on a large frame gas gun and I know the military uses them but I don't know what there service life it, I would put my money into something else for that application though. Just something to think about.
If you get one definitely go for white over green, it's the shit. You should be able to get a new unit with white for around or just a hair north of $9K. A white phosphor PVS-30 is going to run you $11.5K or so whereas the green PVS-30 Grade A refurbs can be had for $4600. Retrofitting a white tube may also be an option and given that the tubes go for about $3500 for white it may even be more cost effective to go that route and would also leave you with a good spare green tube. I personally wouldn't do it though given the value of the PVS-30 refurbs unless I killed the green tube down the road in white case yes I would absolutely have a white tube installed at that point.
It's very rare that they pop up for sale second hand, I've only ever seen one for sale, but a few standard M2124's. There are several retailers that you can order them from, I got a quote from Jason at Euro Optic a couple months back when I was going to order one so I know they can get you one. The PN on the LR white phospor is 39115150-BW002TP and lead time was pretty short IIRC at a couple weeks, I'd call for exact pricing and lead however.
Compared to a PVS-30 for example it weighs half of it. The 30 is available with white phosphor as well but you can get the M2124LR for a couple thousand less with white phosphor. The focus location on top of the housing is also way easier to reach and use than the 30 which is a huge benefit if you're going to be shooting at distances that require a lot of adjustments. I typically find a happy medium that works well for 50ish-600 yards without requiring any fine tuning which are where most of my shots occur.
I know you didn't ask about the PVS-30 but IMO it's the closest thing to compare it to and is also a great unit. The PVS-30 definitely feels beefier however and is recoil rated to 50 cal whereas the M2124LR is only rated up to 308. Now take this for what it's worth as I'm not an L3 engineer but jarring shock is definitely worse for units like this than recoil energy (I'd think a heavy braked or suppressed magnum would be fine) so if you're planning on using one on a gas gun, especially a large frame 308 platform, I'm not sure I'd choose the M2124LR as those actions batter shit pretty good. I've got no long term with one on a large frame gas gun and I know the military uses them but I don't know what there service life it, I would put my money into something else for that application though. Just something to think about.
If you get one definitely go for white over green, it's the shit. You should be able to get a new unit with white for around or just a hair north of $9K. A white phosphor PVS-30 is going to run you $11.5K or so whereas the green PVS-30 Grade A refurbs can be had for $4600. Retrofitting a white tube may also be an option and given that the tubes go for about $3500 for white it may even be more cost effective to go that route and would also leave you with a good spare green tube. I personally wouldn't do it though given the value of the PVS-30 refurbs unless I killed the green tube down the road in white case yes I would absolutely have a white tube installed at that point.
It's very rare that they pop up for sale second hand, I've only ever seen one for sale, but a few standard M2124's. There are several retailers that you can order them from, I got a quote from Jason at Euro Optic a couple months back when I was going to order one so I know they can get you one. The PN on the LR white phospor is 39115150-BW002TP and lead time was pretty short IIRC at a couple weeks, I'd call for exact pricing and lead however.
Thank you gentlemen for your response. This was good information. I have a friend that has a PVS-30 and we have smaller thermals for detection but I wanted something to make longer shots up right of ways at the deer lease on hogs in the off season. The distance that Gunny gave for shots will cover my needs although detection can be out much further depending on grass height. I will be using mostly bolt 308 but do have a gas 308 and an AR-15 that I would move it around on. All of these have quality 5.5-15 x 50 day time optics. And thank you for the specific PN on the LR white phospor.
Again, thank you for your time.
GATO1
Again, thank you for your time.
GATO1
It's just ridiculous that L3/EOTech will not sell the PVS-24 M2124 WP to consumers. They will only sell to LE or MIL departments. I would buy one of these in a second if I could find a dealer or individual willing to sell one.
We have found them have outstanding images but they and the PVS24 family have the highest rates of unacceptable POI shifts of all the units coming through the classes.
There seems to be something about the architecture of the main housing and the way the prisms are mounted. They seem to be very susceptible to bumps and knocks that result in the POI shifts.
I have multiple instances of writing letters to commanders recommending some of the offending units be taken out of service until they are returned for re calibration. Pretty much any POI shifts over 1 to 1.5 MOA are operationally unacceptable to go to work with.
I know some of you will say, . . . . well if the POI shift is repeatable the user could just dial the offset. I throw a bullshit flag because whatever caused the initial POI shift error could certainly happen again causing another compounding one. I have yet to get somebody to guarantee me this couldn't happen.
I believe there is a guy in Colorado that claims to have a fairly foolproof prism fix for them when he re-calibrates them but I have no personal experience with the claim.
./
There seems to be something about the architecture of the main housing and the way the prisms are mounted. They seem to be very susceptible to bumps and knocks that result in the POI shifts.
I have multiple instances of writing letters to commanders recommending some of the offending units be taken out of service until they are returned for re calibration. Pretty much any POI shifts over 1 to 1.5 MOA are operationally unacceptable to go to work with.
I know some of you will say, . . . . well if the POI shift is repeatable the user could just dial the offset. I throw a bullshit flag because whatever caused the initial POI shift error could certainly happen again causing another compounding one. I have yet to get somebody to guarantee me this couldn't happen.
I believe there is a guy in Colorado that claims to have a fairly foolproof prism fix for them when he re-calibrates them but I have no personal experience with the claim.
./
I have had several of the WP M2124LR's, 6 in total, and now I have 3 of them, soon to be replaced by 3 of the new min 2376 FOM units when they finally arrive. I can tell you I have had ZERO issues with POI shift. None. Nor do I ever hear of any and I know and talk to several agencies running them. Anytime I hear of a large shift, its the exact same scenario that has occurred....the M2124-LR's are VERY particular about being mounted parallel. This is where you will get a much larger shift than what the PVS-30 has in the same situation.
If you have a 20 MOA mount for your scope, you need a 20 MOA cant in the M2124-LR. If you try running a canted base with the M2124-LR mounted flat you will get a large shift, much larger than what the PVS-30 in the same scenario would give you. Height offset doesn't matter, the M2124-LR can dang near be mounted 1/2 of the objective off center of the scope, provided it is parallel, but if it's not parallel, you will get a large shift. Mount them parallel, and you shouldn't have any issues.
Glad you are having good luck with yours.
It almost sounds like you don't have them very long before stepping up to another unit. You also didn't mention whether your units are transported everyday and bounced around like regularly used units would experience.
San Antonio SWAT and Baton Rouge SWAT are just 2 of the agencies I know of that have a bunch and almost none are good enough to be deployable.
Most of the units are spec'd to have a reasonable 2D offset from exact center with the day optic and up to 1 degree of angular offset. If things are to spec, a 20MOA base to base difference should not cause a shift worth worrying about.
During the 2nd night of night fire during a Basic Sniper Cert course we taught last month, I literally hand held a PVS-30 in front of an officers NF scope for him to fire 3 shots into the same circle that he fired 3 shots into with white light. All 6 shots were around 1" total C to C group size (fired @ 100yds). I absolutely guarantee the the PVS-30 was all over the place because I was on my knees beside his rifle holding the unit kinda on top of his RPR handguard and waiting for his muzzle blast to kick my ass each shot.
I have done the same trick with PVS22, PVS27 and PVS30s with same positive results.
When expensive equipment is working correctly, that is the kind of performance you can expect even if things are dead nuts perfect with the alignment. Paying that much for a unit that cannot tolerate small issues when other units work through it does not make sense to me. Great image quality that puts bullets in the wrong place is a no-go.
I'm sure your units and all of the new stuff is great now. I'm just sharing personal bad and good experiences that have been repeated over the last few years.
./
It won't on the PVS-30, it will on the M2124-LR. The prism system on the M2124LR is extremely particular about angle and a 20 MOA offset will absolutely cause the issues you speak of. In fact, if you are to contact Insight for trouble shooting, it will be the very first thing they will want to ask.
I don't doubt this at all, as those optics have a completely different prism system than the M2124-LR. All your post does is reconfirm my post. With the 2124-LR, there is no toleration of angle offset between the day optic and NV.
Last edited:
With PVS 30s and 22s . what do you guys find the limit in MOA angle between the optic and UNS before you start to run into problems. I ask because Ive gone up to 30 MOA without issues but curious how a 40-45 MOA would affect POI shift much less an ELR setup with extreme cant.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I'm at a loss.....these are clip ons...... Why would they cause shifting when they just enhance the light and it is still your main scope's job to stay at zero. I'm just a user....and I have never experienced the shifts you are talking about. My distances average about 300 out to 800 yards... I use both the PVS26 and PVS24. Bump drop...still no shifts afterwards.... neither with my guys.... I hope what ever shift problems you folks are experiencing is not contagious.....
You are not quite correct. What defines a "clip-on" is that it does not just enhance the light.
So yes, your main scope has to be zeroed regardless but if your front mounted unit is not collimated you will not hit your intended target.
PVS14 and similar units enhance the light but the image they present to your eye or other optic behind them simply relates to wherever the unit is (exactly) pointed. This is why those type devices can't be mounted in front of the primary optic.
"Clip Ons" have a set of prisms or other tech recovered from crashed UFOs that allow the user to view relatively straight through the device regardless of where it is pointed.
This unique feature is what allows correctly calibrated 22s, 24s, 26s, 27s, 30s, be moved from rifle to rifle without need to re-zero the primary optic. Mounting any other NV or non-clip on Thermal device in front of your scope simply lets your scope look at where ever that unit happens to be pointing which guarantees you will get a zero shift and most the time a huge one.
Great news if your units do not induce any POI shifts when mounted. That is what most users should hope to experience. . . . just plug and play. Unfortunately, that is something that should not be taken for granted. We highly encourage every L.E. and Mil user to do a standardized POI verification once a quarter or ASAP after any event that may have imparted serious shock to the device.
./
Last edited:
Thread revised. I just got one of the m2124-LR 2376 Min FOM and it has the Larue LT 674 throw lever mount but I cannot find a damn thing online about the mount. Can anyone tell me if it is 0 MOA or 20 MOA etc...?
Is there a 20 MOA mount available to switch out on the M2124-LR?
If so where?
I can’t find one on Larue?
If so where?
I can’t find one on Larue?
Looking back at the 2017 posts above, has anyone sorted out why they were experiencing way more POI shift and the need for perfectly parallel rails with the 24LRs? Was news to me and a little worrisome. Would have assumed a 20moa scope base and flat front rail would have been perfectly fine like it is with the -27 and -30, but sounds like that’s not the case for some reason.
I've not seen that myself. I've got three of various vintage, including the new WP and have no problems with a 30 MOA Spuhr and a flat rail for example. Perhaps I'm just fortunate.
I echo the two above: non-issue for me either with up to 20 MOA of can't and about .3" height offset. It will always be my preference to get them as close to optical center as possible and the same amount of cant.
I like to have a unitized rail for any needed slope with the scope actually level, but I’ve got a couple systems where that’s not an option. I can’t see any difference, but all my mount heights are within .1 vertical
Dumb question here probably but if you have the CNVD on a 20MOA mount, would you need the scope mount to be higher than you typically would a 0 MOA mount to account for the 20 MOA cant on both the CNVD and the scope mounts?
That would depend on how the rails are configured. For example, I’ve got a Surgeon action with 20MOA rail built in, and the chassis it’s in has a MLock fore end and it needs a 1.93” Spuhr to get alignment. A Savage with a 20 MOA mount is a normal 1.55” height also using an MLok front end. Different chassis.
Lay a straight edge on the rails and see which is higher and by how much. Clip on units are normally 1.5x” over the top of the rail, so you want centerline of the scope to be between 1.4 and 1.6” over the FRONT rail surface.
Gotcha. This is going on an 20" ECR so its flat down the board. Ill be good using 0 MOA. Just was curious about canted mounts etc. Thanks for the info.
I expected a bigger shift when I put mine on one rifle with a 1.7” 44moa mount. To my surprise it was the same .2R and .1D as every other rifle I put it on. With the higher mount and extreme cant the objective ended up pretty inline with the clip on though.
As with others, I have my scope on a 1.5” tall 20moa mount and I only have .1mil vertical POI shift with my CNVD-LR. My PVS-27 on the other hand is 1.0mil elevation and 0.5mil windage on the same set-up 
