Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

O

oneshot onekill

Gunny Sergeant
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Jul 29, 2008
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DeBary, Florida
#1
Not sure if this is the right area to post this but here goes... I have a Custom built rifle I recently acquired. It was built when I got it so I have no idea if it has unusual chamber specs or if there is even such a thing possible on an '06. Anyway, I bought some Lake City Match ammo for it online because I have such good results with Lake City M118 in my 5R. (I can't remember the model number on the ammo but I'll check when I get home) The problem is that the bolt won't close on this ammo. I looked at a round after extracting it and there are definite marks around the bullet from the (Forcing cone???) area and the rifling and they are about 1/4" forward from the end of the brass! I stood the round next to another 30-06 round I have and it appears to be seated WAY further out. I haven't taken any measurements yet but it looks to be way out of spec compared to "store-bought" ammo. Does anyone know if Lake City Match ammo is normally longer for any particular reason? Or, is the chamber of a custom built 30-06 rifle subject to "tighter" or "custom" specs? I was planning on just pushing the bullets in so the LOA is close to "standard" spec. with a hand-press.

Note: The barrel is marked 30-06 SPRG.
 
#2
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

The ammo you're referencing is manufactured for use in the M1 Garrand which does spec out a little differnt than over the counter ammo.... thought it was just a velocity thing, maybe sized diffeent as well though...
 
#3
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Actually, I thought about that too. Sorry I didn't mention it but I didn't want the post to be an encyclopedia!

I tried it in my Garand and it won't close either!... Slamming the bolt on it just pushes the bullet into the brass and it still marks it up pretty good. I actually fired a few rounds through the Garand after forcing them in and they are all over the place on the target! My Garand routinely shoots 1.5 MOA with decent ammo. These were as much as 2 feet apart! I decided the Garand action was probably much stronger than the Custom Bolt-gun and that's why I shot a few in it. I also have some "CMP Garand Standard Grade Match Ammo" and this Lake City ammo is way longer than that too!
 
#4
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

I would wonder if what you received could be some handloads that have been passed off as .mil surplus M72 Match. I have a half box of some that I will not try to fire since I don't know who loaded them up or with what, and they are seated just a bit longer than standard '06 ball.
 
#7
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

oneshot_onekill,

If it's genuine LC M72 Match ammo, then it should fit your chambers. Sounds like somebody reloaded the brass and passed it off as original ammo. I've got a box of unopened LC M72, so I'm not gonna open it to measure the OAL. Besides, if STP says it's 3.328", then it's 3.328".

Don
 
#9
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Sorry for the delay guys! The boxes are factory sealed so I doubt they are reloads. They're the white boxes and I think they are dated from the 60's. (They're at home, I'm at work) I haven't had a chance to measure them yet. My calipers are at my brother's house. I'll try to get a couple of pictures to show the difference between these rounds and the CMP Garand rounds I have. I'll also try to get at least a "loose" measurement to see if it's around 3.328". Thanks for the help!
 
#10
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Here's a picture of a Lake City Match Round next to a CMP Match round in front of the boxes for each. The Lake City round looks bigger than the box but that's because of the angle I had the camera sitting... Quite a difference in the two!
2epk4up.jpg
 
#12
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Your white box on the left "Garand Match" ammo is NOT MATCH AMMO. It is a commercially made M2 Ball spec ammo (Federal) to be used at the CP JCG match prior to the CMP switching over on its issue ammo from this stuff to Greek M2 Ball. I have 2 boxes of it downstairs and I think it was issued by the CMP (and sold via the e-store) in 04 and 05 or 05 and 06.

I have several boxes of FA early 60's M72 Match down stairs. Let me see if any of those are open and take some measurements.
 
#14
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild Bill C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wonder if the bullets are rising out of the case for whatever reason.... are they all consistently the same length? The CMP stuff has a cannulure and probably a slight crimp where none is visable on the other....</div></div> I haven't measured them but when you rip the box-top off they all appear to be the same height. At least from the Headstamp end.
 
#16
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Call me paranoid, but the box on the right looks suspicious. Like some enterprising internet dealer had these made up to look something like the real thing.

I haven't had any of the original stuff for years, so I lack something to compare with. And perhaps I'm just suffering from old age, but it just doesn't look right to me!
 
#17
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Na... They're the real thing. I've had enough M118 from the same time period to know what the boxes should look like. Besides, I got them from a company that sells a ton of ammo online. They wouldn't compromise their reputation over a few rounds of "fake" Match ammo. Plus, the headstamps match and are all correct... at least on the box I opened so far. And the coloring and condition of them is consistant with other Lake City Match ammo I use.

280man,
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make ammo for different models of Military rifles without giving the ammo a different model number or specifying the weapon it was made for. Also, I think the chambers should be about the same... I'm no expert on this, it just makes sense.
 
#18
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

It seems to me that you could just use a measuring tape as well, it should be fairly obvious if it is slighty over 3 5/16" or if it is a bunch over. I know that isn't the best way, but would give you an idea until you can borrow some calipers.

If the bullets on this ammo were some how pushed out further than they were originally built, maybe it would be ok to seat them in to the proper depth? Perhaps someone will weigh in on this once you get the actual OAL of these rounds.

How many boxes of this did you buy? Are all the rounds in all the boxes the same? If they are, I would find it incredibly weird that they would all have slid out an equal amount. If your rounds are at 3.328, then I would call your smith and see if they used a reamer that has a shorter throat or something like that.

Dave
 
#19
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

I posted this on a similar thread yesterday I thought. The stuff looks identical to
the ammo we bought back in the 70's, made in the 60's. I saw it crack the stock on
a brand new a303 and I thought I blew up my browning fn bolt with it. The same
guy that had the a303 has a bunch more he just bought (30 years later) from the cmp and is pulling the bullets to run through a garand with a different bullet, he is not dumping the powder.
 
#20
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

I't probably just my eyes but the brass on the LC ammo doesn't look "right". The shoulders are wrong and where the neck is isn't "right". Then again the stuff on the left almost looks like AI brass, not quite but similar.

The stuff on the left also looks like 147gr ball vs the 173 on the right (much shorter boolet).

What does the Headstamp of the M-72 say?

You could probably Google the headstamp and/or Lot number and find out if others have had simillar issues.

OBTW: The M72 box is a dead ringer for original.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#21
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted this on a similar thread yesterday I thought. The stuff looks identical to
the ammo we bought back in the 70's, made in the 60's. I saw it crack the stock on
a brand new a303 and I thought I blew up my browning fn bolt with it. The same
guy that had the a303 has a bunch more he just bought (30 years later) from the cmp and is pulling the bullets to run through a garand with a different bullet, he is not dumping the powder.</div></div> Yea, I've been all over the Hide with this issue. Sorry about that! I read your other post yesterday but wasn't understanding it... Now I do! Thanks for the Heads-up!
 
#22
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I't probably just my eyes but the brass on the LC ammo doesn't look "right". The shoulders are wrong and where the neck is isn't "right". Then again the stuff on the left almost looks like AI brass, not quite but similar.

The stuff on the left also looks like 147gr ball vs the 173 on the right (much shorter boolet).

What does the Headstamp of the M-72 say?


You could probably Google the headstamp and/or Lot number and find out if others have had simillar issues.

OBTW: The M72 box is a dead ringer for original.

Cheers,

Doc</div></div> I'll look at the headstamp tonight. Thanks for the suggestion. It may just be the flash or something that makes the shoulder and neck look wrong. It's really just hitting the bullet way too early. A good 1/4" forward of the brass.
 
#23
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpotcheckBilly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call me paranoid, but the box on the right looks suspicious. Like some enterprising internet dealer had these made up to look something like the real thing.

I haven't had any of the original stuff for years, so I lack something to compare with. And perhaps I'm just suffering from old age, but it just doesn't look right to me! </div></div>

That's the real mccoy - I've got several boxes of that myselfdated 1972 or some such, never shot it ouit of my springfield, just yet....soon though
wink.gif
 
#24
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

I would seat those deeper so they have some 'jump'.

I would refrain from putting any in a garand until running the reseated ones over a chronograph to verify standard fps.

very bad grouping can be caused when running too hot, SD/ES will be large and seating into the lands will spike pressures enough to blow a garand up!

ask your self if your garand is worth risking over some old ammo?
oh, ask also if your face/life is worth what you saved/spent on this batch of ammo?
 
#26
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Older thread I know. Not sure if you found your problem yet, but the following might make a difference, might not, but I copied the following note from a page when I was doing some searching on this round the other day.

Cartridge, Caliber .30, Ball, Match, M72

<span style="font-weight: bold">The cartridge is designed to be fired only in weapons designated as competition rifles.</span>

The cartridge is identified by head stampings on the base of the cartridge case with either the initials NM (National Match) or the word MATCH. The primer is uncrimped, the bullet has no crimped cannelure, and the case is not crimped to the bullet.

Type Classification: STD - OTCM 37119
OAL 3.34" (84.8mm)
 
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#27
Re: Lake City 30-06 Match Ammo

Well... Thanks for keepin' up with this and that makes perfect sense. As it turns out, I just bumped the projectiles back a little after figuring out how much and they shot fantastic! I know that's dangerous but I took it slow and easy. Thanks again for posting.

John
 
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