Lanolin 10;1 and shoulder bump.

[supercorndogs]

I started sizing some 308 brass, and found some shoulder bump variation. 10 pieces of sized brass with the 10;1 lanolin was running from 1.629-1.623. I couldn't find anything that seemed out of the ordinary trying to run down the problem. So I pulled the die and decapping pin cleaned it all up again, and tested 10 more pieces with one shot. Back to 1.629-1.628. Am i getting too much lanolin on there? Does it tend to build up in dies?

 

[spife7980]

I wondered that when I started mixing it too but I’ve since cleaned my dies and they gave the same results post cleaning so I feel like I eliminated that as an issue in my mind. I think letting it dry completely is the biggest thing that I may have been doing. It takes a bit longer than oneshot to flash off even with the 99% iso.

 

[supercorndogs]

I always clean my dies after use. The cases were still wet to the touch. I might have to try letting some dry for longer.

 

[Snuby642]

On single stage, think Im sticking with the wax and grafite in the neck.
Nothing has stuck, had some problems with sprays.

Could you use something with a lower flash point than ipa? To mix in .
Some of those might eat cheap plastic bottles, but flash off fast.

 

[Hawk in WY]

I have found the neck sizing ball pulls the shoulder forward after sizing in an inconsistent manner.

The solution is obviously to lube inside the case necks, but I have yet to eliminate this problem entirely.

 

[Sheldon N]

Too much lanonlin will show up as dents in the shoulder or residue all over the top of the shoulder of the brass. If you aren't getting that then I don't think too much would be the issue. Possibly not enough lube or the alcohol not being fully evaporated? Or maybe as mentioned by someone else shoulder being pulled forward by expander ball, if that's how you're doing it.

Generally brass seems to size more consistently for me with a bit more lube (within reason). I alwasy let my cases fully evaporate before sizing. They should be very "tacky" to the touch and you shouldn't be able to smell any alcohol on the brass. If you spray them in an open tupperware container, you can use the tupperware lid to fan the brass while moving it around. With a bit of airflow the alcohol evaporates off very quickly. Or, if you lube right after annealing while the brass is warm it evaporates even faster still.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I agree that the sizing ball can pull shoulders back at random increments. Once I discovered this, I stopped using it.

Now I bushing FL size without it and all is right in the world of shoulder bumping for me.

 

[Changed]

You can expedite the drying time of the alcohol with a lighter.

 

[supercorndogs]

Too much lanonlin will show up as dents in the shoulder or residue all over the top of the shoulder of the brass. If you aren't getting that then I don't think too much would be the issue. Possibly not enough lube or the alcohol not being fully evaporated? Or maybe as mentioned by someone else shoulder being pulled forward by expander ball, if that's how you're doing it.

Generally brass seems to size more consistently for me with a bit more lube (within reason). I alwasy let my cases fully evaporate before sizing. They should be very "tacky" to the touch and you shouldn't be able to smell any alcohol on the brass. If you spray them in an open tupperware container, you can use the tupperware lid to fan the brass while moving it around. With a bit of airflow the alcohol evaporates off very quickly. Or, if you lube right after annealing while the brass is warm it evaporates even faster still.

I anneal onto one of my big steel targets to pull the heat out of the brass for handling faster.

The expander ball is probably the difference between 1.628 and 1.629 {if its not my calipers and measuring skills}, but not 1.629 and 1.623. It was probably rubbing alcohol that had not evaporated yet. I got a couple of dents below the shoulder, when I sized the last 40 that were lubed with the 10;1 mix. Maybe the 99% could not get out the vent fast enough and made a path down the side of the case. Not what I have seen before as dented shoulders from too much lube, but an indication there is too much of something in there.

 

[Snuby642]

My expander was grabby if I didn't use enough wax inside case mouth, a pain.
The spray lube also gave the same problem.
I started using dry grafite, just dip case to shoulder in the aplicater balls and tap on the cap
to ensure no ceramic ball has stuck to something inside.

We have went with decap, vibrate in Walnut with nufinish and mineral spirits to thin it.
The cases have a dry finish with a lot of lubricity.
Size with wax on the body and case dipped in the grafite to the shoulder.
No sticky expander etc but a process of love and labor.
We do this on new brass also to pick up the slick finish.

I belive they remain much cleaner inside the case after shooting.
I don't have enough camera to show that, try it once.

Have not tried spray and grafite yet, any thoughts on that

 

[Snuby642]

If the alcohol was still wet inside the case, it would clean the expander on the down stoke
and dry hump it on the upstroke .
Maybe that was my original problem as well?

 

[Sheldon N]

It was probably rubbing alcohol that had not evaporated yet.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards that too. When the alcohol is still wet the lube is very fluid and could easily be wiped off the case by the sides of the die. Once the alcohol is gone the lanolin is really sticky and won't come off the brass as easily when being sized.

 

[Midwestside]

You can expedite the drying time of the alcohol with a lighter.

And do that before you load the case with powder/primer.

 

[Hawk in WY]

I anneal onto one of my big steel targets to pull the heat out of the brass for handling faster.

The expander ball is probably the difference between 1.628 and 1.629 {if its not my calipers and measuring skills}, but not 1.629 and 1.623. It was probably rubbing alcohol that had not evaporated yet. I got a couple of dents below the shoulder, when I sized the last 40 that were lubed with the 10;1 mix. Maybe the 99% could not get out the vent fast enough and made a path down the side of the case. Not what I have seen before as dented shoulders from too much lube, but an indication there is too much of something in there.

The differences I'm seeing from the expander ball pulling the shoulder forward is not thousands of an inch but hundreds unless I lube inside the necks carefully. Even then I haven't solved this problem entirely.

 

[spife7980]

The differences I'm seeing from the expander ball pulling the shoulder forward is not thousands of an inch but hundreds unless I lube inside the necks carefully. Even then I haven't solved this problem entirely.

If thats the case I would find 1) thinner brass so the die doesnt close down your inner neck diameter as much or 2) hone the die out so that it sizes it down less or 3) get a bushing die to size it down less. If your neck resists opening up enough to pull the entire shoulder forward hundredths of an inch then you have some other issues that arent lining up well for you that should be addressed first in my opinion.


As for letting the alcohol evaporate, I come home, spray the brass and set it out side in my open card board box. Then I get out of my slacks and get a beer and get netflix queued up and then they are dry, probably a half hour.

 

[supercorndogs]

If the alcohol was still wet inside the case, it would clean the expander on the down stoke
and dry hump it on the upstroke .
Maybe that was my original problem as well?

It shouldn't because on the upstroke the neck should be a larger diameter than the expander ball. I am careful to spray lube in the necks, whether it is one shot or Lanolin mix. I don't want them dragging on the expander, especially with scale be broken from annealing.

Another interesting note. I moved into my creed brass today, and I have decided to to check and reset my dies for every session. I found some cases that correspond to x.x41,x.x40, x.x39, and x.x38. x.x38 chambers, x.x39 is tight. My die is setting the shoulders back to x.x40, too tight. This was once fired not annealed. I get the die reset to bump to x.x38. I moved to my bucket of brass that I annealed a couple days ago, and the shoulders are going to x.x36 to x.x37. So I set the die back to about where it started.

 

[Danattherock]

If lanolin spray is cold and won't mix up well, it's easy to be spraying mainly etoh, and that would cause sizing variation for sure. Just suggesting since it's winter and some folks setup is in garage, as is mine.

 

[Bradu]

I had this issue and I found if I stand the cases upright and spray from every direction that it helped considerably. Fought that issue with trim lengths on the Giraud trimmer and now its much better

 

[Sticks]

Cookie sheet covered with aluminum foil. Lay the cases out, spray the lot from about 10 inches (if it were spray paint, it would have just made a light dusting still seeing mostly brass) slide the sheet back and forth about 15 times, spray and shake again. Let sit for half an hour (or few days depending on what I have going on) while I check my press and get comfy.

Next batch I use 1/2 as much as the alcohol reactivates the lanolin on the foil. Kind of like an applicator pad. Used to do the same with a gallon ziploc bag...reuse the same bag, just after the first coating, you don't need as much.

Now if I can find a better sheep fat solvent to get the lube off, because 15 min in a hot US cleaner with Dawn and Lemishine ain't doin' it. Might have to go back to dry tumble again, and I hate the stray media and grit even with cut up dryer sheets in my tumbler.

 

[supercorndogs]

Dry tumbling takes off lanolin pretty well, but it takes a couple hours.

 

[Danattherock]

Sticks, if by 'stray media and grit' you are referring to media stuck in primer flash holes after tumbling sized brass, I recently did interesting test.

I always tumble off lube, after sizing brass, 30 minutes usually does the trick. But especially with Lapua BR brass, I have noticed partial to near full occlusion in flash holes of some cases. Toothpick works, but is tedious.

For fun, last 250 rounds I loaded prior to a match, I picked worst ten cases, 80-90% occluded with tumbling media, couldn't see through hardly at all. I used ten with zero occlusion to test against. Fed 205M's.

SD on both ten shot groups was nearly identical, 3.5-3.7 if I recall. Both ten shot groups were nearly identical, .5-.6 ish, didn't measure. So I don't worry about media in flash holes nearly as much as I did. The results surprised me to be honest.

 

[Bradu]

Sticks, if by 'stray media and grit' you are referring to media stuck in primer flash holes after tumbling sized brass, I recently did interesting test.

I always tumble off lube, after sizing brass, 30 minutes usually does the trick. But especially with Lapua BR brass, I have noticed partial to near full occlusion in flash holes of some cases. Toothpick works, but is tedious.

For fun, last 250 rounds I loaded prior to a match, I picked worst ten cases, 80-90% occluded with tumbling media, couldn't see through hardly at all. I used ten with zero occlusion to test against. Fed 205M's.

SD on both ten shot groups was nearly identical, 3.5-3.7 if I recall. Both ten shot groups were nearly identical, .5-.6 ish, didn't measure. So I don't worry about media in flash holes nearly as much as I did. The results surprised me to be honest.

Thanks for posting your findings, I had planned on doing this to see what the results were if you missed a piece of media in the flash hole.

 

[Danattherock]

Sure thing man. In past there is nothing anyone could have said to convince me that media in the flash hole wouldn't seriously effect my SD and accuracy. The more I test, the more streamlined my reloading seems to get. Lol.

 

[Snuby642]

Most of the time I load 50-100 in some cal's then more in 223 308.
I still use 50-100 count case holders and put cases in them upside down.
A quick rap on the bench clears most , the remaining are easily spotted,
I use a punch with a tape handle so I can find it.
Gives me a chance to look at pockets, and head stamps .

If you have a lot of larger batches, after separating media, put them back
in the vibratory tumber for 60 seconds, pretty much knocks out everything.

Warning, it pisses off the dogs, grandkids and the spouse!

 

[Sticks]

...
If you have a lot of larger batches, after separating media, put them back
in the vibratory tumber for 60 seconds, pretty much knocks out everything.

Warning, it pisses off the dogs, grandkids and the spouse!

After using the POS sifter, I put all the cases back in (200+) the tumbler and as they are running, they stand up on the case head, where I grab a handful, invert and hold against the side of the tumbler for a few seconds to presumably vibrate the last of the media out and I still get stray grit.

Add "Hearing protection required" to your pissed off list as that process is LOUD.