Gunsmithing Lapping scope rings

[stello1001]

Hello everyone,

So lapping is a term I've started hearing a lot very recently. I'm working on a rifle build slowly and little by little. I have the rifle, I have the scope, and now I'm looking for rings. I was planning on buying and doing everything myself. I am looking into a device that has horizontal lines and attaches to the rifle and scope in order to get the scope dead on without being slanted or anything. I was also looking at buying a torque wrench so that I can have exact amount of pressure on each screw on the rings. Then I realized that to do any lapping you also need some equipment. I have not looked into that so I don't have any clue as to how much it could cost. My main purpose for doing everything myself was to save on money here and there. I just realized that I might end up spending a lot more than I had anticipated. With that being said, how important is lapping? Am I better off just taking the rifle to a gun smith? What if I buy rings and decide to install them myself without lapping? This is where I am stuck. This is fairly new to me and I do not have a lot of insight on this. Can anyone tell me what my best options could potentially be?
Thanks...

-Serg


**update**

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have received my rings already and now I want to mount my optic. I still have a few concerns though. With my rings not being lapped, there is a substantial gap on them as I am trying to screw the top halves to the bottoms. With that being said, should I leave one side with a gap and the other side making contact, or should I try to leave the same amount of gap on each side? Is this something I should be very careful about or am I just overthinking it? One more thing, if I can borrow a torque wrench/torque screwdriver, etc., how tight am I supposed to go?
Thank you...

 

[Leland22]

You really don't need to lap rings anymore,just get a quality set and you're good to go. Nightforce,Vortex,Seekins,and the like. I do believe that Vortex are made by Seeking but could be mistaken.
As far as a torque wench..I have a fat wrench and it does what I need.
To get your reticle straight,hang a plumb line, and line up the vertical,torque them down to spec and call it a day.

 

[...]

if you buy modern, high quality rings.....they do not need to be lapped.

for what you pay for the cost of a lapping kit (i used the wheeler kit).....you can just buy a good set of rings to begin with.

badger, seekins, nightforce........i mean if your spending around $100 for rings, they most likely dont need to be lapped.

now unless you lap the shit out of rings, theres no harm in doing so..........but like i said, if you are buying quality stuff, it really doesnt need it.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Ah scope ring lapping... takes me back to 2011 and the scope lapping craze of the early part of the decade.

Do get a good torque wrench or driver. Make sure you know the difference between foot pounds, inch pounds and inch ounces before you start to put 42 foot pounds on to an inch-ounces screw.....

But listen to Cameron and Leland...

Scope lapping.... I wonder if this is something Rex is doing

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[stello1001]

Would you guys consider the Burris xtr rings to be of quality and not needing of any lapping?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Never heard of them (I've heard of Burris, but not XTR rings...) so I looked up their ad and they seem to be some kind of insert ring. Which uses concentric rings inside the rings... which makes lapping them all but impossible. They look like they have more bells and whistles than most trains.

As Cameron said... Badger, Seekins, NF... I'll add U.S. Optics to that. And for the really state of the art out there, check out Sphur. He is active here on the 'Hide and his rings/mounts are phenomenal. The mounts I put on the last two rifles I built were Sphur for a reason.

http://www.spuhr.biz/ideal-scope-mount-system

The Burris XTR rings look all gimmickey to me. And Burris is at best a tier two optic. I would bet that they have tier two rings.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. BTW, you didn't mention what rifle or scope you are mating up. Because depending on your combination... you may not need expensive rings or lapping... It's all part of a system when you start putting things together.

 

[...]

mount them up and see.

the reason we lap rings is to 1) give the rings more purchase on the scope so it doesnt slip and 2) remove any burrs and irregularities so you dont scratch and dent the scope.

you arent likely to scratch and dent the scope, unless you go full gorilla tightening them....so i wouldnt be too concerned with that.

if you have a large magnum, your scope may slip in the rings.....possible but not likely....

if you have scope slippage....then you would benefit from lapping the rings.

honestly lapping rings is a nice to do if you have the means(ie, you have someone you can borrow a lapping kit from)......but its really nothing that you HAVE to go out of your way to do.

honestly its not going to increase accuracy, or really have much of any tangible benefit....its more of a "piece of mind" thing

i lapped my first set of badger rings simply because i was bored and had a kit avaliable to use........but i havent lapped rings since....even on my magnums.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Oh and the Burris Xtreme Tactical rings web page has a picture of a really tactical looking guy with a tactical beard and one of them big watches. Probably a Luminox. And to quote their ad copy "Xtreme Tactical Rings were built to withstand brutal use from competitors and tactical operators."

With that kind of cred, who needs lapping

And not 'pickin on you Stello. Just that operatory operator stuff featuring operators in operator beards... is usually the last thing you want.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[stello1001]

Haha, thanks everyone for the info. To be more descriptive, I am mounting this on rifle that I really do not thing is worth too much time nor money. It is a ruger american predator in 6.5 creedmoor with a Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 that I got new for $600.00. The Burris rings that I was asking about are actually on the link below.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/3...049d44-7qpBjqzHyyfX8tLL0bjG1eI7u1IaAkAt8P8HAQ

I was asking about those in particular because i found a good deal on a pair. I will keep checking the classifieds to see what else I find.

 

[JMGlasgow]

The Burris XTR Signature rings are good rings. I've used the regular Signature rings on my rifles for years with zero issues, and know others who use the XTR rings with no issues as well.

 

[jdonovan]

if you have a large magnum, your scope may slip in the rings.....possible but not likely....

if you have scope slippage....then you would benefit from lapping the rings.
.

Or use wider rings with more surface to interact with the scope tube.


Lapping/aligning was a whole lot more important when rings were 1/2" wide, only 2 screws, and twisted into your bases, and scopes had highly polished tubes and big magnum cartridges. That was almost a recipe for slipping if you didn't take steps to align, lap, and torque rings properly. Hmmm I think I still have a little bottle of rosin we used to use on the rings too for 'extra' grip.

I still use my scope alignment bars to check for non-matching rings, but its been a long time since I found a set that didn't align.

Say what you want about the tactic-cooling of every rifle these days, but one piece picitinny rail bases and 4 or 6 screw rings have made scope movement a thing of the past.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

We move quite a few of the XTR rings. Even with heavy calibers I have not had anyone with slipping issues. The rings are pretty decent, Should not need to be lapped. Of course the Nightforce, Seekins and Vortex rings are of higher quality. The Vortex precision rings are made by Seekins as a matched pair. I have had to use the Burris signature rings which are the ones with the inserts for some special problems in the past and each time have had great results. I will say 6 screw rings do take up more rail space. It also looked like you posted a link to medium height rings. The Burris 30mm low is a .85" optical centerline I'm pretty sure this should work for you. Hope this helps.

 

[stello1001]

The reason why I am looking at those is because I found some used ones for sale at a decent price. I dont think this $380 rifle is worth putting on $120 rings...

 

[sirhrmechanic]

On your rifle/scope combo, those Burris rings will be just fine. Take care in mounting them... no need to lap. And you'll have a nice shooting varminter/target rifle/precision rifle starter pack!

Those Rugers are nice little rifles! And you got a great deal on it.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[NovaHunter]

I have the Burris XTR rings on 3 rifles, and also put them on my dad's .308. I've hunted and shot matches with them. Never had an issue.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[STI_1911_Guy]

A quality set of rings is one thing but if they are being mounted on a sub par base "matched set" doesnt mean shit. I have mounted hundreds of scopes for customers, all the way from bottom tier to top tier rings/bases specifically im talking, not the optic. I haven't seen many that allow the scope to sit and rotate without any friction whatsoever from concentric misalignment. When you tighten the rings onto the rail they dont always line up perfect. Quality items like those mentioned are very close, close enough it likely doesnt matter but i still prefer to lap as a quick and easy piece of mind.

 

[stello1001]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have received my rings already and now I want to mount my optic. I still have a few concerns though. With my rings not being lapped, there is a substantial gap on them as I am trying to screw the top halves to the bottoms. With that being said, should I leave one side with a gap and the other side making contact, or should I try to leave the same amount of gap on each side? Is this something I should be very careful about or am I just overthinking it?
Thank you...

 

[Rarebreed93]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have received my rings already and now I want to mount my optic. I still have a few concerns though. With my rings not being lapped, there is a substantial gap on them as I am trying to screw the top halves to the bottoms. With that being said, should I leave one side with a gap and the other side making contact, or should I try to leave the same amount of gap on each side? Is this something I should be very careful about or am I just overthinking it?
Thank you...

Your going to want to leave an equal gap on both sides of the rings.

 

[mdmp5]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have received my rings already and now I want to mount my optic. I still have a few concerns though. With my rings not being lapped, there is a substantial gap on them as I am trying to screw the top halves to the bottoms. With that being said, should I leave one side with a gap and the other side making contact, or should I try to leave the same amount of gap on each side? Is this something I should be very careful about or am I just overthinking it?
Thank you...

Like the post above stated, make the gap equal. Don't snug down one side at a time or it will be quite uneven, and only use 15 inch pounds per screw.

 

[LawnMM]

A quality set of rings is one thing but if they are being mounted on a sub par base "matched set" doesnt mean shit. I have mounted hundreds of scopes for customers, all the way from bottom tier to top tier rings/bases specifically im talking, not the optic. I haven't seen many that allow the scope to sit and rotate without any friction whatsoever from concentric misalignment. When you tighten the rings onto the rail they dont always line up perfect. Quality items like those mentioned are very close, close enough it likely doesnt matter but i still prefer to lap as a quick and easy piece of mind.

Another approach would be buying a base that's straight

 

[STI_1911_Guy]

Another approach would be buying a base that's straight

I agree. I have never seen one marketed as straight though, I assumed they were all straight. My point was that there are more pros to lapping than cons so with the effort required I feel its a worth while endeavor from what I have seen.

 

[LawnMM]

Buy a quality base/rings and you won't have an issue. If the base is off so much the rings need lapping then that base belongs in the trash, you don't lap the rings to fix a crooked base. Now you have two out of spec components when you started with one.

Fix what's broken, don't break everything so it all matches.

 

[mcfred]

In the case of a Rem 700 that's been finished by hand by some ape with a belt sander then you can't blame the base or rings for misalignment if you clamp an otherwise straight base down onto a crooked receiver.

More than once I've taken a one-piece nigthforce base and put one screw into the base onto a Rem 700 action. You could fit a .020" wire gauge between the base and the rear receiver bridge. It was not difficult to tighten down all 4 screws where the base would distort, like a strung bow. You could check the top of the mount with a straight-edge and easily see the distortion. The solution was to bed the mount so it was stress-free.

Yes, you can buy $400+ mount/ring combos, but if you're just forcing them to conform to some POS receiver then you've just wasted $400.

 

[AnschutzNerd]

Yes, you can buy $400+ mount/ring combos, but if you're just forcing them to conform to some POS receiver then you've just wasted $400.

Agree with the above!

The rings are just one part of the system. The rings are bolted to the rail. The rail is bolted to the receiver. The receiver is often deformed in at least one axis.

What about receivers with an integral rail? Ocassionally they are out of spec as well.

I have lapped Seekins Rings going on a custom receiver because they needed it!

I recently lapped Badger rings going on a Ruger RPR.
Brought a tear to my eye to do it but, the customer was against purchasing an aftermarket rail and the Ruger rail fit tight to the receiver.

Lapped rings = Zero Scope ring marks on the scope.

Those who tell you to: 'Just buy good rings' = Fools.

Signed,

Uni-Mount fan

 

[stello1001]

Thanks to all for the info. It seems as if the more I learn, the more I realize I hardly don't know much about this haha. Anyhow, there is no way I will be purchasing top of the line rails or mounts as this is a low priced hunting rifle.

 

[bhoges]

I use my lapping bar just to line up my rings. If I Cerakote them I do a light pass to make sure its smooth and won't mar the scope surface. Biggest enemy is over torquing rings. In the end its not going to hurt anything. Its all personal preference.