Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

[Tomekeuro85]

Would it be a waste to buy Lapua brass for a factory remington 700 .223?

Ive been going back and forth a TON about what I'm looking for. From a totally new rifle in .260 to sending this one for rebarreling in .223AI...

I kindof see it as a waste... I might just keep stock and run the barrel its full lifespan.

This rifle as it sits right now, is only on my 1st set of "groups" since my ladder test with the new h322 loads.

shoots well under MOA.. Id say about .6-.7 average MOA at 300 yards... most groups between 1.8 and 2.2 inches.

Every so often theres a random flyer like an inch or more away from the main cluster but its clear where the main impact area is.

I'm thinking maybe Lapua brass can fix this flyer issue, as well as free floating the barrel. Not much else to improve on what I already do as far as ammo prep goes.

The problem may also have been that I was using 5x-6x fired rem brass that was never annealed.. Who knows. But the heads are all starting to separate on that batch so I'm going with a new batch of brass.

I use 52gr smk, match primers, and fully uniformed rem brass with h322. Only thing to really do would be to sort the brass and bullets, but after weighing lots of smk's they dont vary enough to make it worth the effort. As far as sorting brass, the variation is big but it takes a lot of time so I don't do it. I know Lapua is a lot more consistent in that regard.

Anyways, I feel like if I do some more work and tune this gun, I could make it to .5moa without too much effort. And I'm perfectly happy with that, so why spend hundreds of dollars if I dont need to.

Any opinions based off of that info? I know its not me btw, the groups I used to get with my crusader verify that... Mainly looking for what can eliminate most of the flyers and tighten the groups up just a tiny bit more.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Nope.

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

No...It's good brass and will last if taken care of. I love Lapua brass. It's all my 308 eats.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

If your rifle shoots better with it. Its not a waste get some and try it.If your gun likes it get more. The only way to tell is to try. The only waste is not tryong it

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

The best brass won't help a bad barrel/chamber.
If the gun shoots well I would recommend Lapua brass.
I have had good luck with Winchester 223 brass as well.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Tom,

Lapua and Norma brass, and then win brass (when prepper right) will give you good brass life provided you do your part
- minimal sizing
- not shooting hot loads
- annealing frequently

In my opinion, its worth using good brass if your aiming for accuracy and precision.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best brass won't help a bad barrel/chamber.
If the gun shoots well I would recommend Lapua brass.
I have had good luck with Winchester 223 brass as well. </div></div>

Who would bother keeping a barrel and chamber bad on purpose?

Down the road it goes, or to the 'smith, before I'd get any kind of serious over frettin' brass.

Just sayin'......

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Lapua is good shit, worth the money.....

 

[okiefired]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best brass won't help a bad barrel/chamber.
If the gun shoots well I would recommend Lapua brass.
I have had good luck with Winchester 223 brass as well. </div></div>

I'm with s4f. If its a pretty good shooter, try the Lapua. If its all over the place anyway, the Lapua isn't goin to save it.

okie

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Why not do both?
The 260 is a fine round in a custom build.
The 223AI is a OH WOW kinda round in an 8 twist set up for the heavy bullets.
I replaced the 260 with a 6.5 Creedmoor but my 223AI is going nowhere!
BTW, from the sound of things, your 223 is shooting pretty good. Might try some Vit N133 over those same 52 match bullets.
As for weigh sorting brass I hate to burst the bubble but you will have to do it with Lapua too. On my tact guns I weigh sort in (usually) .5 grain lots and toss the way lows and highs back for another time.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

yes it is a waste in a .223, because you can get 1000s of cases of brass for cheaper than dirt. That is what I do and then weight sort, measure necks, uniform primer pocket..etc. It is a lot more work but it is so cheap to do. I bought 100 cases of Lapua and 50 cases of Nosler and 5000 cases of surplus. I did not find a difference between any of them. But I am shooting a gas gun and that made more sense to me because if I loose brass it is only cheap surplus brass not my expensive nosler or lapua. If you want I will send you 20 cases of my cheap surplus brass that I have sorted and you can see for yourself if there is a difference.

However, if you said .308 then I would look no further than Lapua or Norma

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not do both? </div></div>

haha im too poor for that kind of stuff.


how about the LC09 /10 they sell at midway?

anyone used it?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

To me, there are two advantages to Lapua brass. Less prep, and (maybe) longer life. Oh, and a third one too; it's braggable...

I use Win.

 

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I got 5 loadings on my factory 223 with LC 09 AND Hornady brass.
FL every time, bumping the shoulder back .002".
Annealed after the 3rd firing.

On the sixth firing, I got case head separation on several cases.

Same results on two brands of brass.

This rifle shoots well under MOA also, but is not a target/benchrest gun. It will never match the accuracy of a "custom" gun.

Having said all that, I'm going to try some Lapua brass next and see what kind of results I get. It's only $50 /100, so it's not going to break the bank.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Insert Name Here</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

On the sixth firing, I got case head separation on several cases.


</div></div>

Pretty much exactly what happened to me, except i never annealed.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Be careful with your sizing die setup, reduce the amount of brass movement back and forth by only bumping back the shoulder 0.001" and if you take up annealing and do it properly just anneal the necks enough.

Brass in those circumstances should last you a long time.

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Oh, and a third one too; it's braggable...
</div></div>

haha, yes!


i do use lapua and am happy with it. just one more thing eliminated from my list of variables. it did not improve my group size, but i was already around .75 moa, and my gun was rockin well below .5 moa

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

"Lapua brass = it's <span style="text-decoration: underline">braggable</span>..."

'Spect that sells 90% of what's used.

I wouldn't say that NO factory barrel/chamber will ever show a difference but I know of none that have HONESTLY measurably improved average groups simply due to the high cost brass.

Anyone getting head seperations in 6 cycles is either shooting a Lee-Enfield or excessively FL sizing.

 

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

...or a shitty Remington factory chamber.

 

[Fieldman_.308]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

For me, lapua brass is worth the money. Mainly because it takes less prep work and i've been able to load it more than other popular brass. For my 338 lapua i'm on my ninth load with the lapua, and even my norma brass needed chucked after five reloads. I've never seen better accuracy from using it though.

 

[arborpro]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

if you are new to shooting slash reloading and with a factory barrel. don't waste your money on lapua brass. factory chambers need to meet sami specs. which means all ammo will preform under pressures and bullet length etc for that caliber. you would be working your brass to much if you wanted to use the same brass should you re-barrel. actually Winchester brass is very good brass and cheap, you just may need to weight or separate brass into like lots.

arborpro

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Factory chamber, tight custom chamber... whats the difference?

In the end anyone that knows anything about maximising safety and brass life knows that a case should receive minimal sizing.

Regardless of the quality of the case, you should still be able to chamber with ease whilst also having minimal change in length over firings. Eventually they all become fireformed be it a factory or custom chamber.

So why not use good brass?

I think people forget that factory rifles are capable of outshooting most shooters out to 1000 yards, under which circumstances you want every bit of consistency down under your belt.

Nothing stopping you from using average brass, at the end of the day your the one shooting it so I couldnt give a crap... all im saying is good brass has a place in all rifles.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I use Lapua brass in my .308 I only neck size and am on my 11th reload. That said,

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: arborpro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> actually Winchester brass is very good brass and cheap, you just may need to weight or separate brass into like lots.

arborpro </div></div>

Very good you say, but needs to be sorted into lots....Mmmmm, interesting.

I don't have that problem with Lapua......

 

[Hunt]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I use both Winchester in my factory chamber and Lapua in my 95 Palma chamber. I have found that Winchester is some fine brass provided you want to work on it a little more. It may not be Lapua but it isn't Lapua's price either.

Stick with Winchester and do more shooting and less analysis of which brass to use.

 

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

minimal brass resizing with a factory chamber? what is that?

with most Remington chambers I've seen (308 and 223) the diameter at the shoulder (the entire body for that matter) is too large. So, even if you bump the shoulder 0.000001", you are still squeezing the case diameter back to spec, thus doing away with "minimal resizing".

 

[okiefired]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Factory chamber, tight custom chamber... whats the difference?

In the end anyone that knows anything about maximising safety and brass life knows that a case should receive minimal sizing.

Regardless of the quality of the case, you should still be able to chamber with ease whilst also having minimal change in length over firings. Eventually they all become fireformed be it a factory or custom chamber.

So why not use good brass?

I think people forget that factory rifles are capable of outshooting most shooters out to 1000 yards, under which circumstances you want every bit of consistency down under your belt.

Nothing stopping you from using average brass, at the end of the day your the one shooting it so I couldnt give a crap... all im saying is good brass has a place in all rifles. </div></div>

Wht he said.

okie

 

[arborpro]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

The original post was. Is lapua brass a waste of money for a factory 700?
Answer is whatever it means to you. Is a custom built rifle a waste of money?
Do you run premium gas or regular?
Do you like canned beans or fresh beans?
These posts tend to turn into I can piss farther than you can. When I assume the original poster just wanted some general advice.
If you think the single most benefit to gain accuracy in your rifle is Lapua brass, buy it. It will cost you more. Some places as much as 30> cents per case more than Winchester brass. Winchester as a rule will have more case volume than the thicker lapua brass. That’s why some shooter s will weight cases in to separate lots just the same way they weight there lapua cases into separate lots. Keep in mind Winchester brass will give you a slight edge on case volume it you want to shoot slower burning powders.
In trying to stay away from my gun is prettier than yours. Test some loads with different cases, primers, powders, bullets etc. see which loads perform best with your gun. Factory guns tend to have a barrel that is capable of shooting a variety of bullets well. But don’t shoot the heavier bullets well do to twist rates. There chambers tend to be a little oversize side to accommodate all factory ammo. So you may work your cases more when you full length size your cases which can lead to shortened case life. Hey some guys only neck size there cases that’s great.

Some factory guns will even shoot better than yours or mine. so your mileage may very. please reload responsibly and get out there and shoot.

 

[Fieldman_.308]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

"I" feel lapua brass has been worth the money to "me". I have not been worried at all about full length resizing it back to saami. To me its just deciding a few things. First, how much time do you want to put into your brass prep? Second, how much "mileage" do you want to put on them. Third, how consistant do you want them? I put all my brass through as much prep work as possible(atleast I think so). After all is done and said, I like to check weight to see how consistant they are. Lapua has been the most consistant. I own a Rem 700 SS 5R that I do all this for, and I feel its worth it. If not for the consistancy then for the "mileage". In the end I get my money out of the lapua brass.

 

[fusiachi]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...Regardless of the quality of the case, you should still be able to chamber with ease whilst also having minimal change in length over firings. Eventually they all become fireformed be it a factory or custom chamber...

</div></div>

That's always been my understanding. Growth pretty much stopped after the second firing in my generously sized Remington chamber; I've now got a dozen loads on my first 100 Lapua cases run through that rifle.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I'm gona try neck sizing only and see how far that takes me.

I did all FL sizing on that batch of rem brass and it was with a lee die and no 'known' value of sizing or shoulder bump... I just ran it thru the die and thats all..

I'm sure the brass was WAY overworked.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Dont fret too much Tom as its just Remington brass... nothing wrong with Rem brass i also have a stack of it. Learn what you need to learn on the remington stuff and eventually once you have everything down properly (die setup) it wont matter the quality of the brass your running.

At the end of the day you can still achieve sweet groups at long distances using any brass, but you really need to take into consideration many factors. One of the main reason people go with Lapua brass is because those factors are reduced right from the day you open that new box of brass.

But thats not to say its perfect either. There are still those of us out there that will buy a few boxed of lapua brass, and then sort them by weight regardless of Lapuas claimed tight factory tollerances.

 

[Fieldman_.308]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I'll back that up. No matter where you get brass, if your going to the extent of weighing and separating your going to find some out of tolerance.

 

[BigMahi]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Regardless whether your a beginner/pro/benchrest shooter, Lapua is worth it from a pure economic standpoint.

Win brass: $38 per 100, then 10-15% have issues (hole off center, mouth crushed, dented etc., so now you have 85 pieces bringing it to $0.44 cents apiece.

Lapua: $58 per 100 and all 100 pieces uniform, drilled holes so no burrs, comes in nice reusable plastic box so $0.58 apiece.

Here's the biggy - Lapua lasts on average a dozen firings before primer pockets get loose, or signs indicating impending case head separation. Win brass, with the same load (+.2 grains powder) lasts 6 or 7 firings. You decide.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Exactly.

End of the day a hot as shit load will losen primer pockets, regardless of how awesome the brass is.

Then again I hear stories of people with over 50 firings on lots of brass! Clearly these individuals understand the finer points of maximising brass life.

 

[bkster]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

brass quality is just like wine quality

the higher the quality the higher the price
some do fine with low
some do fine with high

in 223 i do best with lapua
in 260 in my rifle i have both and it doesnt matter

get both see if there is a difference
then buy what you want

 

[Brandon05_88]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I run Lapua in me Rem 700 SPS Varmint factory barreled action. I use to run Remington that was once fired from factory loads. I weight sorted cases for tesing loads. Now I'll just load and shoot without weight sorting. With the Remys, I would weight sort for every time I shot because there were some considerable differences in weight. To me, I paid the extar for the Lapua just so I don't really have to weight sort.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I have never bought a box of any caliber Lapua brass that did not benefit from weigh sorting.
I sort in 1/2 grain increments and toss out the ones that don't fit anywhere (and there will always be a couple).
That said, I shoot the 7WSM WW brass right out of the bag with no sorting and have had great results.
Nosler brass is weigh sorted and match prepped at the factory in 50 piece lots. I use it in some calibers (7MM08, 300 WM, 260) and it has worked well for me.

 

[AMOK!]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomekeuro85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm gona try neck sizing only and see how far that takes me.

I did all FL sizing on that batch of rem brass and it was with a lee die and no 'known' value of sizing or shoulder bump... I just ran it thru the die and thats all..

I'm sure the brass was WAY overworked. </div></div>

You should be able to extend the life of Lap, Win, Rem, and Nor brass by a) dialing 'em in from the start (e.g. uniform primer pockets, flash hole debur, trim case lengths the same), b) NO-size cases 3 to 4 cycles before annealing, c) anneal cases and then FL-size, and d) repeat steps b) & c). IME, one of the most important factors is to avoid the tendency to chase MV and create "hot loads". A sure recipe for case head separation.

Was fortunate to have 9 cycles of NO-sizing on my Norma cases. Noticed during the 9th cycyle, that 4 cases were tight on bolt lock-up. A sign that that the shoulders were worked-harden and ready for flame ops (annealing). Decided to anneal all Norma cases, once my Annealing Rigs are built

. After the cases are annealed, I plan to follow the protocol listed above.

FTR, I have very limited experience in annealing, but believe the approach is sound based on Hide research, engineering judgement, and discussions with local shooters.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Annealing is good, get into it.

 

[samnev]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua is good shit, worth the money..... </div></div>
+1 Only use Lapua brass in my TRG.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

If you get as few as nine loadings out of a piece of brass, it is the cheapest component, competing only with the primer at about $.06 a round... and that is with Lapua brass.

So why not use Lapua brass? If you really want to save money, look first to the bullet, then to the powder. People think that brass is expensive because they buy it all at once, but in the end, brass is actually very cheap. That is the whole point of reloading.

Lapua brass yields longer life and has pockets and flash holes that don't need uniformed. There is reason enough for Lapua right there.

Now if you already have some brass and you want to switch to Lapua, there is a cost. I am not sure that you will yield much benefit. If you have existing brass, you can prep and cull to be like Lapua. I don't think brass itself will help your accuracy.

 

[AMOK!]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

You misread my post. I had 9 reloadings on my Norma 270WSM brass, BEFORE I decided to anneal. Guarantee that I'll rip 30+ reloads w/ these cases following the protocol I outlined.

Why not use Lapua brass? Lapua stopped making brass for 300WM four to five yrs ago. That's why I use Norma exclusively.

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

Norma would be my next go to.

 

[banks74]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

I use Lapua for less prep work and longer life. I hate prep work and if I can skip some by buying better brass...why not. The expense increase will be negated by the more hours I can spend working instead of reloading. ymmv

 

[vman]

Re: Lapua brass a waste for a factory 700?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banks74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Lapua for less prep work and longer life. I hate prep work and if I can skip some by buying better brass...why not. The expense increase will be negated by the more hours I can spend working instead of reloading. ymmv </div></div>

Or spending it with family/friends, or sitting on your ass in front of the TV eating ice cream... hell yeh

Beats brass prep any day