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Large Frame AR Purchase Recommendations

Coffee_and_Pipes

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
May 6, 2018
306
229
TX
I’m considering a precision rifle purchase and would like some input. A while back, I posted asking a build vs. buy question. After a lot of thought, I think I’ve landed on the “buy” side of the argument (that’s not to say a great precision rifle can’t be built by an individual, I’m just not as interested in going down that road).
Currently, the top end of my budget is around $4,500. This will also be the last major rifle purchase that the budget committee ok’s for a *long* time. That said, I need some help.

My gut says go with a G2 GAP-10. If so, I’d like a 6.5 CM with a 22” barrel and +2 gas. Nothing out of left field, just a solid rifle (any thoughts on G1 vs. G2?).

Currently, I shoot at a range that goes to 100 yards, but I discovered a place an hour away that has a 1,000 yard range. Long distance sounds like fun. Most shooting will be done at 100 yards, but I want to factor long range shooting, hunting, and PRS into the decision. I realize that there are all kinds of bolt action, or other non-semi, rifles that could do a better/easier job of this, but after 28 years of shooting, I enjoy semi’s the most.
I’m interested in a GAP-10, Lanxang Tactical VL-34, Wilson Combat, or LMT MWS.

Lanxang won the 2017 Army International Sniper Competition, so clearly they build a solid rifle. They also make it sound like their rifles should cycle pretty much any ammo I’d run (match ammo, Winchester white box, or eventually handloads).

Wilson Combat is regularly a “what if” contender. I like how light a number of their rifles are, but am curious about weight-saving cuts allowing receiver flex.
On the opposite end of the weight spectrum, if I went with the LMT, I’d probably ask Jeff Hayes at River Bend to spin up a 6.5 CM Bartlein. An LMT is attractive because it lets you change out calibers in the same frame, but the system is allegedly really heavy.

If I went the used rifle route, maybe I could swing two rifles out of the deal. A really accurate target rifle that was possibly more finicky about ammo, and an LMT as a SHTF .308. Another option would be a used rifle and a nice scope.
If anyone has recommendations inside of those rifles, I’d appreciate it.
 
Fair enough, I had a Gen 1 GAP-10 in a 308 and it was a great gun (I just liked the JP in a 6.5 better). Out of what you have for listed for options my vote would be the GAP, in my opinion George’s products are top notch.
 
My vote would go to GAP or JP, and I'm a larue predatobr owner. It's a great gun but I don't think it is the best. If I wanted to strip the scope and suppressor off, it would make for a cool .308 carbine in a pinch though...

Thanks, regency. I had thought about an Ultimate Upper kit from Larue, but it sounds like Larue isn’t as meticulous as they were in their Walther Lothar days.
 
I have had many many many ar10s. Only a few are poor, but the JP was definitely at the top of the top end of the spectrum for me.

With the buffering bolt carrier i can shoot suppressed or not in 6.5cm with no gas adjustment.

That said, i do have a Triggertech trigger and a SA gas block in mine. I think Jp makes better gas blocks these days but when i bought mine they sorta sucked. I have never cared for any trigger in an at but the triggertech and the Larue.

Also, i night shoot and do other heavy pieces of fieldwork with my JP. it sees very little bench time and a whole lot of sand and cacti. It has never jammed.
 
Thanks, regency. I had thought about an Ultimate Upper kit from Larue, but it sounds like Larue isn’t as meticulous as they were in their Walther Lothar days.

What have you seen to support this in the large frame AR's?

I'm a fan other their products. Their 22" 260 shots extremely well. Recoil compared to a 308 is a 'gentle push'.
My rifle was a factory rifle but their UU kits are hard to beat for the price.
 
I’ve had my jp for just over 2 years, round count is sitting at 1155. I’ve ran factory and hand loads through it without a cycling issue to date. I’m about to take either a 6.5 Grendel or 224 valkyrie jp plunge based on my lrp-07 experience....
 
JP for pure accuracy, I’ve seen and shot many over the years in competition and as an PR and sniper instructor and I’ve never seen one not shoot under 1MOA, 0.5 to 0.75 is common. Haven’t shot the Seekins but notation from other reputable instructors suggests it very well may be worth a look and I’m impressed with there build process.

For more “work” style guns, KAC is where I’d look. Accuracy wise you’ll probably see 0.75-1.25 MOA but reliability wise though I’ve seen them last in conditions that have choked bolt guns. If you can dig up a OBR with the Legacy LW barrels then those are money, the newer in house barrels seem to be ok but not quite as consistent as the LWs. LMT again has got some high marks from others but my personal experience so far is limited to two guns with about 1500 rounds down the tubes each. One LMT was alright and one was really struggling with sensitive of bipod load, stringing vertical about 3 MOA, so the jury’s is still out.

As for me personally, I chose to go the OBR route. I know Mark can kinda come off as a dick sometimes but the rifles do work. I’ve been shooting them for about 7-8 years now , probably have close to 10k through a hand full of different OBRs and they strike me as good balance between accuracy and reliability. Price point isn’t bad either, I snagged a low round count LW barrel for $2700 just earlier this year.

Here’s a 5x5x5 with Some Prime not super impressive but this was post scrub down and in the world of large frame gas guns if you got a rifle that can hold 1 MOA or better with factory ammunition, I’d hold on to it!
6ED827A4-2E9C-429A-A294-8850C37A464A.jpeg


Also here’s a 5 rounder of some Prime I shot for a zero conformation during a class, she clearly prefers to run dirty.
5172F10B-245B-4865-BA68-A83E01E80D4F.jpeg


Edit: If you looking for a 6.5 then stick with the JP or Seekins.
 
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I've had my 6.5 CM JP LRP 07 for a little over a year now and can only say "wow" every time I shoot it after shooting any other large frame AR. Super soft shooting - easy to spot impacts at 100 yds and it is truly a 1/2 minute gun. It often shoots in the .1's. My bolt gun shooting friends just shake their heads in disbelief. I don't believe it to be a one off gun either. I've got a friend that lives quite a distance from me that bought one after shooting mine. He texts me pictures of his groups with factory ammo and they are ragged holes. Neither of us have ever experienced a malfunction. I'll be buying another JP.
 
I've had my 6.5 CM JP LRP 07 for a little over a year now and can only say "wow" every time I shoot it after shooting any other large frame AR. Super soft shooting - easy to spot impacts at 100 yds and it is truly a 1/2 minute gun. It often shoots in the .1's. My bolt gun shooting friends just shake their heads in disbelief. I don't believe it to be a one off gun either. I've got a friend that lives quite a distance from me that bought one after shooting mine. He texts me pictures of his groups with factory ammo and they are ragged holes. Neither of us have ever experienced a malfunction. I'll be buying another JP.

I also have a JP LRP-07 in 6.5 Creedmoor and my experience has been exactly as described by flyright. It shoots buttery smooth with virtually no recoil. It has been dead nutz reliable with both Factory and hand loaded ammo with bullet weights from 120 to 140 grains and velocities from the 2500s to over 3000 fps. Accuracy is unbelievable for a big frame AR and will shoot right with my best bolt guns with its favorite loads. Fit and finish is literally perfect and the build quality is peerless. Although I haven't had any reason to need it, JP is legendary for their customer service and support.

I haven't yet had the pleasure of shooting a GAP 10, but I'm sure they also build a very good rifle. However, I have to say that if you're considering a high end production AR10, you would be doing yourself a disservice if you don't at least give JP a close look.
 
What have you seen to support this in the large frame AR's?

I'm a fan other their products. Their 22" 260 shots extremely well. Recoil compared to a 308 is a 'gentle push'.
My rifle was a factory rifle but their UU kits are hard to beat for the price.

I haven’t seen them in person. I was simply saying that I’ve heard their XTran rifles aren’t on the same level as their Walther Lothar ones were. Regardless of the manufacturer, I’m glad you’ve got a solid rifle you enjoy shooting.
 
JP. They have got it figgered out. A little spendy but when there is no complaints what is that worth? Sure you can make a cheap gun work. Just add up the hours of cleaning and tinkering and soon you have paid for a Jp.
 
I dont think that you can go wrong building or buying at this point, it all depends on if you can find a factory rifle in a configuration that suits your needs
in your price range.

I am a big fan of the LMT, you can now build an Mlok for around 3000 these days, the new chassis is noticeably lighter than the rail versions,

Their 6.5CM barrel has impressed me. 308 LC barrels can be found online for a couple hundred bucks, check the box of lone range/ precision and 308 plinker.

while maybe not as purely accurate as a JP or Gap, the ability to go from plinker 308 to quality 6.5CM in the same price range is nice. . It is also possible to caiblize an old MWS barrel and have a Bartlien or krieger barrel spun for you
 
Another vote for JP
I have owned something like 6 different brands over the years like Wilson and Larue for instance and custom 3 gun rifles. Only AR rifles I have left are JP. I own four JP's and they all are accurate, soft shooting rifles.
 
I've had very good luck with a pair of Stag Super Varminter AR-15's, and my first large frame could well end up being a Stag 10 24" 6.5 Creedmore. The price looks steep, and they do have builders' options. I'm still a bit hung up on the .260, but the CM is slowly winning me over.

When I look for complaints, I'm as likely to find significant owner loyalty.

Greg
 
I had my JP in the field for months. Nonstop. In the winter. In the mountains. Shot it every day and did not have any issues at all.

MY reliability went down thought when the day started with freezing ice rain and then hammered the fuck down to -20F

So. I’m also going to say this - every one of the other ar10s i had worked with the exception of the Iron Ridge and DPMS guns. and all but one of the working ones would shoot 1moa or better.

It’s just that the JP started all the way at the other end of the spectrum. The maximum performance i had ever observed from any other ar10 was the JPs bad day.

And every part has been a work of art machining and design wise.
 
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Maybe they got better. My last one was the roller trigger, and frankly it looked like a milspec with adjustment screws. No bueno for me. The triggertech was a great change up for me.

My JP trigger is about as good as I've felt - but I shoot a lot of crappy Geissele and AI stuff...

And please, it's Lothar Walther.

What "King" said with one exception. JP triggers are junk!
 
I'm going to throw a vote in for Wilson Combat. I picked up an LE demo from Mile High, put a Steiner T5xi top end 15x, a quick and not too careful zero on it, and was hitting a full ipsc at 1100 yards.

This was a Recon Tactical in 6.5 with a 20" barrel, shooting Prime 130 gr. I was impressed given the zero was hurried, going to get it out for groups soon and see what it can do.
 
I like my LaRue 22” 6.5CM UU. I’ve only shot it with Hornady 140gr ELD-M. If I do my part correctly the gun shoots pretty well. Here is a picture of my first three shots from 100yds on my second outing with it. My only complaint is I don’t get enough time behind it.

View attachment 6962572

That’s a fantastic group! I’m glad it’s shooting so well for you.

How would you say the fit/finish of the rifle are? Is there any rattle to it, etc?
 
Fit and finish on Larues large frame rifles is top notch.
I've been very pleased with their .260.
Easy to shoot small groups at 100 and last week I got an 11" 10 shot group at 1K yards.

qcplwue.jpg


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@KML7201 @DuneShoot

What length of gas system are you running on your rifles? Also, how does the bcg feel when you are pulling back the charging handle? I was at Cabelas yesterday looking at a couple rifles. The SP10 I tried felt really smooth, but then they handed me a DPMS, and it felt like I was dragging the bcg down a gravel road.
 
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@KML7201 @DuneShoot

What length of gas system are you running on your rifles? Also, how does the bcg feel when you are pulling back the charging handle? I was at Cabelas yesterday looking at a couple rifles. The SP10 I tried felt really smooth, but then they handed me a DPMS, and it felt like I was dragging the bcg down a gravel road.

The gas system is rifle +2. The bolt is smooth. Zero gravel.
 
Yes the +2 gas system. Bolt seems pretty smooth to me.
I tried again at 1K yards today. Didn't do as good as last time but still pretty good for that distance.
gpYfUHK.jpg

0yhsVag.jpg
 
Last night, I ordered from Schuyler Arms:
Aero Precision .308 BCG Black Nitride - $145
AP M5 LPK minus FCG/PG - $30
AP M5E1 Complete Upper, 22" 6.5CM SS EM-15HG - $375

$550 TOTAL w/free S&H

Then I Googled for the AP M5 lower and Brownell's had it for $89.99 w/free S&H

I'm going to see if one of the Raptor CH will fit.

Hope it is as accurate as every one of my 308 ARMALITES.

Need help in picking out mags, though.

EDIT: I have an UBR Gen2 and emailed Clint at Heavy Buffers for one buffer and three springs.
 
Seems like you are looking into and at more spendee rifles than this but I've owned RRAs AR-10 in 6.5mm 20" bbl for two seasons now and I've run it with all kinds of ammo and my reloads without a hitch , gltich or bxxxx. I bought it because a friend owned a RRA and he used to shoot on one of the military shooting teams, so figured the brand was of good quality. I also bought it on special (dealer ordered it) and it is back on special now.

Scroll down and look for LAR-8 M4 Standard in 6.5. It shoots 1 MOA as mentioned out of the box. Mine was under and better with handloads. FYI and FWIW. No connection to RRA, just a happy owner:

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=61
 
Fair enough, I had a Gen 1 GAP-10 in a 308 and it was a great gun (I just liked the JP in a 6.5 better). Out of what you have for listed for options my vote would be the GAP, in my opinion George’s products are top notch.

I have a G1 GAP10 in .308.... and wish I had a 6.5.... must be a natural path we all need to take :cool:
 
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People were bitching about the GAP rifles a few years ago when I was looking. They also wouldn't make any changes. I get whatever they want to sell. Larue just couldn't pull it off and the Mk20 was promised for 6 months out; a few years later that did happen. A group buy on the old SR25's just fell through, but until after the older SR25's were ceased mfg.

So I ended up with the SR25, the current models. Couldn't be happier, it's one damn nice rifle and I know where the cost went in it. 75% of the rifle is proprietary and the shit works, so no complaints. All the gear is quality. The suppressor they make for it is nice too.

6.5CM will cost more than the .308, but they do make one now. If you're military or vet or can otherwise get an account at KAC, the prices won't be so bad.

Never heard anyone say anything bad about JP rifles, I don't use their rifles but I swear by their FMOS BCG for reliability in any AR.