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Larue v. Seekins free float system?
- Thread starter deersniper
- Start date
Personally, I dont like the IRMT-R because the rail is massive. Great if you plan on tucking a suppressor though. The IRMT-3 is great because of the flat bottom. Both attach the same, with small torx screws.
No experience with the LaRue.
No experience with the LaRue.
And its retarded to have to mate your upper to an inferior rail system and/or be stuck with that.
The MKXX rails are hardly poser gear, they are the finest rail on the market and were recently selected by SOCOM to outfit the boys with a real upper. If you knew anything about AR's this is abundantly clear. They have the finest lock up/barrel nut system of any rail.
The MKXX rails are hardly poser gear, they are the finest rail on the market and were recently selected by SOCOM to outfit the boys with a real upper. If you knew anything about AR's this is abundantly clear. They have the finest lock up/barrel nut system of any rail.
Try reading this link. BigJake seems to know his poop and builds some BA accurate ARs. Padom posted in there and he does as well.
Both guys I would say worth listening to when it comes to building a precise AR.
Both guys I would say worth listening to when it comes to building a precise AR.
GAP has used shitty components since they started building the GAP10. POF trash. It was a gun for people who were too incompetent to build their own. Now there are way better options on the market from LMT & KAC. There is nothing about a GAP10 that I can't do better in my basement with better parts for less money. Then again I actually have the tools and knowledge to build an accurate AND reliable small or large frame AR.
If you want a precision build, there is nothing better than the MK series rails. They have the absolute tightest barrel nut to rail interface of any rail system. They have a superior locking system. You don't need to index the nut. The rail is rock fucking solid. Its machined correctly so after you face the AR receiver, you get a nice clean surface that is square. They are usually cheaper than anything else in the same quality range, moreso if u get them on their bi annual sales. They ONLY drawback is the inside of the rail will not fit some reflex suppressors if you run a long rail.
Bill cut his teeth in the NRA high-power world. His entrance to the market, the HI speed trigger was designed for precision shooters. To this day, its still the best precision AR trigger on the market. It was adopted by SOCOM to replace the older KAC 2 staged in their MK11 & SR25's before most of you even know what an SR25 was. Lets just say he knows more about precision shooting than some jerkoff on the internet who doesn't understand why Larue is an outdated and inferior product. This is not 2004 anymore, we have options, and much better ones at that.
You can call it poser gear or whatever you want, that just shows your ignorance.
If you want a precision build, there is nothing better than the MK series rails. They have the absolute tightest barrel nut to rail interface of any rail system. They have a superior locking system. You don't need to index the nut. The rail is rock fucking solid. Its machined correctly so after you face the AR receiver, you get a nice clean surface that is square. They are usually cheaper than anything else in the same quality range, moreso if u get them on their bi annual sales. They ONLY drawback is the inside of the rail will not fit some reflex suppressors if you run a long rail.
Bill cut his teeth in the NRA high-power world. His entrance to the market, the HI speed trigger was designed for precision shooters. To this day, its still the best precision AR trigger on the market. It was adopted by SOCOM to replace the older KAC 2 staged in their MK11 & SR25's before most of you even know what an SR25 was. Lets just say he knows more about precision shooting than some jerkoff on the internet who doesn't understand why Larue is an outdated and inferior product. This is not 2004 anymore, we have options, and much better ones at that.
You can call it poser gear or whatever you want, that just shows your ignorance.
Primus is a fucking idiot Mall Ninja, all he does is run his fucking cock hole and never backs up anything he post.
He can't even wrap his little brain around the point of this entire thread.
No one here is talking about how strong a handguard can be they are trying to find the best option for a true free floating system.
In my opinion right now it's the LaRue that has the best system out right now, the seekins and mega designs aren't bad but I don't like the way they use the internal barrel nut to secure the barrel from the inside threads of the receiver face.
Once you insert you're Barrel into the upper of a seekins in then has a collar style barrel nut that secures the Barrel in place, if you put strain on the handguard it will transfer strain on the barrel, because the handguard is a attached to the outside of the upper Receiver and the upper receiver secures the barrel.
LaRue doesn't work that way, the handguard is attached to the upper receiver but not where the barrel nut threads are located, so you can put as much strain on that handguard and it will not come in contact with the barrel nut in anyway keeping a true free floating platform.
This is what I'm talking about
As seen here with the Red arrows indicating pressure transfer, Any Force/torque that is applied to the outside of the handguard will transfer straight through to the barrel, because they are all connected.
with the LaRue any pressure or torque that is applied from the handguard will be transferred to the area's pointed out and in red, while keeping areas highlighted in blue completely free floating an unaffected from any other outside force.
This concludes today's lesson ?
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A mall ninja with more years in combat and building/fixing guns for DOD than guns you have ever built.
Bigjake proving again he's nothing but a jerk off bullshit artist. Good to have you back.
Bigjake proving again he's nothing but a jerk off bullshit artist. Good to have you back.
Mine is the shortest!
Oh wait, was that not the contest?
Oh wait, was that not the contest?
So I'm leaning towards the Larue with a proof carbon barrel. Now just need to decide on a bcg and gas block.
Good idea. Don't look up all the recent larue kits that don't shoot for shit, probably half due to their design. Wouldn't want any relevant data points to sway your opinions.
Or it could be. I don't know. The barrel?
You probably have good info buried in your head somewhere but your bias covers it all up.
Both are good and I have used both. I have not used the new LaRue builder kits, but I do have an OBR and OBR lite.
Both are solid and mate up prefect with the upper with minimal flex.
My LaRue OBRs stay the most consistent when the barrel heats up.
Another good option is the VLTOR monolithic upper. Last I knew they were only avail with Keymod. I know that can be a deal breaker for some.
Both are solid and mate up prefect with the upper with minimal flex.
My LaRue OBRs stay the most consistent when the barrel heats up.
Another good option is the VLTOR monolithic upper. Last I knew they were only avail with Keymod. I know that can be a deal breaker for some.
The superlative arms and SLR .875 will fit but set screw only.
Oh really? then show us all, you should still have your DD 214 and Military Orders, and training certificates.
Show us all so we can all marvel at your Badassery.
For once and your meaningless life prove that you're not a complete waste of free air and full of shit.
Because to date no one on Snipers Hide have seen any ofyour Riggs or seen you compete, let alone a 6x5 shot by you with ANY firearm.
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Just another example of primus ignorance, for those of you who are interested in this, you do not have to buy a whole UU builders kit from LaRue they sell the upper and handguard as a complete set by itself here is the link.
I only have experience with the Seekins and Larue large frame.
I have experience with the Geissele MK18 on a small frame.
The Larue UU kit is a good design, but the Larue barrel extensions are cut .003 smaller then the DPMS extensions. Larue will tell you they fit and they do with a lot of heat and force. All the DPMS extensions (from Proof) I’ve seen in UU kits the feed ramps don’t line up. Easy fix with a dremel. I’ve had great performance out of my Larue barrels. I wish Larue would put a bit more aluminum in the handguard and barrel interface to account for the difference in heat expansion of steel and aluminum. I haven’t seen any issues with my Ptober or UU’s, I’d still like more meat for piece of mimd.
The Seekins guns have a huge amount of aluminum in the handguard and barrel nut interface. The handguard didn’t feel good in the hand and the plain machining doesn’t do much for pride of ownership. The handguard rides bags really well. I haven’t been pleased with the performance with the Seekins factory barrels but DPMS barrel extensions fit perfect so the aftermarket is endless. I’ve now seen several SP-10M’s and they have all shot amazing. If I was gonna build a comp gun today it would be on a Seekins kit with a barrel of my choosing. I’d choose Seekins for the long strings of fire in comps and short cooling time in between stages.
I shot a G MK18 in tac light and it shot all over the place. The threads on the small frame upper just isn’t enough to handle 16” of handguard no matter the barrel nut design. If it touched anything, bi-pod or support once it got hot it slung bullets.
I wish Seekins and Larue would put an Arca rail on the bottom of their handguards.
Deersniper,
Knowing you, if you’re gonna predator hunt with the rifle and use a Proof CF heat isn’t really an issue so use the one you think looks the coolest.
I have experience with the Geissele MK18 on a small frame.
The Larue UU kit is a good design, but the Larue barrel extensions are cut .003 smaller then the DPMS extensions. Larue will tell you they fit and they do with a lot of heat and force. All the DPMS extensions (from Proof) I’ve seen in UU kits the feed ramps don’t line up. Easy fix with a dremel. I’ve had great performance out of my Larue barrels. I wish Larue would put a bit more aluminum in the handguard and barrel interface to account for the difference in heat expansion of steel and aluminum. I haven’t seen any issues with my Ptober or UU’s, I’d still like more meat for piece of mimd.
The Seekins guns have a huge amount of aluminum in the handguard and barrel nut interface. The handguard didn’t feel good in the hand and the plain machining doesn’t do much for pride of ownership. The handguard rides bags really well. I haven’t been pleased with the performance with the Seekins factory barrels but DPMS barrel extensions fit perfect so the aftermarket is endless. I’ve now seen several SP-10M’s and they have all shot amazing. If I was gonna build a comp gun today it would be on a Seekins kit with a barrel of my choosing. I’d choose Seekins for the long strings of fire in comps and short cooling time in between stages.
I shot a G MK18 in tac light and it shot all over the place. The threads on the small frame upper just isn’t enough to handle 16” of handguard no matter the barrel nut design. If it touched anything, bi-pod or support once it got hot it slung bullets.
I wish Seekins and Larue would put an Arca rail on the bottom of their handguards.
Deersniper,
Knowing you, if you’re gonna predator hunt with the rifle and use a Proof CF heat isn’t really an issue so use the one you think looks the coolest.
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Are you talking about large frame or small frame? Also I am now on my 4th build using the LaRue upper receiver handguard combo and with the barrel extensions supplied by Compass Lake they absolutely fit perfectly. And that tight thermal fitting is actually a positive, sometimes it could be a pain in the ass but it is actually the desired fit.
This is one of the four that I recently finished and it is by far the most accurate recce rifle I've built to date.
I only have experience with the UU large frames. I'm very familiar with thermal fit, if it worn't for the feed ramps not lining up I would say the DPMS/SR to UU fitment was perfect. Even if the extension ramps were recessed I would have been good with it, but the DPMS large frame extension protruded into the upper a few thou causing a lip. Luckly all my larue barrel have shot great so no issue. It's good to hear that the small frames are an easy fit.
Here's a pic I just took for you from my small frame, you can also take a thin barrel shim and cut out 1/16" for the centering anti rotation pin out of it and use it to bring the barrel extension inside back to flush.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if this was a proof research issue do you have any friends that may have a JP Barrel hanging around somewhere?
Also how FT-LB did you torque the barrel down to?
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https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-accurate-have-sp10-been-out-of-the-box.6909008/
I prefer seekins. there no pressure on the rail that effects the barrel. Glen specifically addresses this. I built mine using seekins receivers and JP internals with a craddock bartlein. It outshoots my AI. Dang sure out shoots any Larue OBR I have ever owned. Just me though as I know there are larue guys that will say just the same about theirs.
Mind you the new larue UU receiver looks pretty bad ass I have to say. i dont think you could go wrong with either. I have just be very happy finally getting a semi to group like a bolt and it has been using seekins new stuff. I even went back and built my ..23 using the same stuff.
And another plus for the larue is that offer 13" rails... Which is good if you like adjustable gas blocks to sit just outside the handguard... like with seekins new adjustable gas block. 13" is perfect for me. i wish Seekins had a 13 option for rifle length gas blocks. no biggie though.
I prefer seekins. there no pressure on the rail that effects the barrel. Glen specifically addresses this. I built mine using seekins receivers and JP internals with a craddock bartlein. It outshoots my AI. Dang sure out shoots any Larue OBR I have ever owned. Just me though as I know there are larue guys that will say just the same about theirs.
Mind you the new larue UU receiver looks pretty bad ass I have to say. i dont think you could go wrong with either. I have just be very happy finally getting a semi to group like a bolt and it has been using seekins new stuff. I even went back and built my ..23 using the same stuff.
And another plus for the larue is that offer 13" rails... Which is good if you like adjustable gas blocks to sit just outside the handguard... like with seekins new adjustable gas block. 13" is perfect for me. i wish Seekins had a 13 option for rifle length gas blocks. no biggie though.
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Yes, but honestly I’m not that interested in finding out at this time. I’ve got a stack of Larue barrels and they’ve been great so far.
Great idea with the shim. If I run into that problem again that’ll be my go to.
I'd love to see some pics of your Craddock build sounds very well done. I've seen a lot of your builds over the years and no expense spared. What state are you in?
it's funny that you pointed out about the 13" rail I was just discussing this with another member. A 20" barrel with rifle length gas puts the gas block about half an inch past the end of the handguard making it perfect for adjustment. If I decide to do another large frame build this summer it will be with the Seekins builders kit, Proof 6.5 CM SS Barrel, and JP LMOS BCG and SCS. The 15" Seekins Rail allows for the +2 gas system. I'm also contemplating on trying the new Triggertech AR Diamond Trigger.
Ha BJ that’s my exact build. I used the trigger tech but mine is 22” 6.5cm with +2 I’ll post pics of it
Frank addressed this in a podcast some time ago, actually.
In order to see any flex that would affect accuracy by transfering movement to the barrel, you’d pretty much have to bend/permanently warp and damage the receiver and rail. There’s a ton of material on the IRMT receivers, so unless you’ve got someone doing pushups on your rails while you shoot, chances are good you’re not going to see a difference in accuracy.
No experience with Seekins but have had very good performance from various Larues.
