Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

[chosen_karma]

I was recently contacted by a member of a SWAT team that is looking for a class on patrolling in a woodland environment. Now being a Marine this sounds very simple and basic, but most of the things we teach are geared towards military/DOD/contractor/agency support. We have taught LE and SORT/SWAT teams in manners of stalking,tracking,patrolling to objectives, CQB/sniping and shooting instruction ect. However, just patrolling ? He gave me a few ideas of what they are looking for and I know I have many other questions to ask but here are a few examples... A suspect darts into the woods and the dogs wont go in and they have to go after him... a suspect engages them in the woods.. They have a suspect barricaded or dug in.. Now I know what <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> would do, but I am also smart enough to know that what a <span style="font-style: italic">Marine</span> would do vs what <span style="font-style: italic">LE</span> can do is a bit different, everything is pretty much vague on their part and it seems to me like it sounds like they have no idea what they want or need, and they want the max in as little as a few days to include nights. Now if I am to give them what <span style="font-style: italic">we</span> would deem necessary to accomplish this it would involve land nav day/night, tracking, formations, gear, IA drills,danger areas
ect ect ect... But how would I condense that into just a few days ? I know I have plenty of other questions to ask but I just wondered if anyone had any run accross this before ? We have tried in the past to avoid teaching "tactics" to LE as what we would do may not be available to them in their ROE. And most of the military runs off of their own unit SOPs. With LE we tend to say "this is a <span style="font-style: italic">way</span> to do it that <span style="font-style: italic">works</span>, now you have to figure out what works for <span style="font-style: italic">you</span>" Im not looking for just answers to the above requirements asked of us, more of an idea of what they would be looking for in a class or if anyone has an outline to that effect. We want to give them what they need, trying to stay in the guidlines of the time they asked.. without overwhelming them with to much, if that makes sense. Thanks in advance.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

Being in LE I have an idea what they are asking, vs. what you are undecided on. Most LE agencies that want to offer additional training to officers dont want to spend the money or time to wrap up a group for more than a couple days. The best thing to do is put your entire lesson on paper. If you know how to use PowerPoint, or some other presentation method, then from that point you just need to touch on the main roots of what you are teaching. You would be suprised what you can do in 8 hours. If you are given 2-3 days then use the last day for practical field application. You can also put together a refresher coarse, or even an expert/instructor coarse. Alot of agencies may send a seasoned instructor to an instructors coarse so they can provide the coarse to all their officers, and adapt it to suit the needs of the agency. Hope this gives you a clear idea of what your options are.

 

[gruntbull]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

Build Cordon, ensure you have E n E routes covered, and watch for movement...

Sounds like a nifty problem, but it shouldn't be too hard. Now if they have a large wooded area say a reserve then its time to track.

Semper Fi,
If you are interested I could expand on all of this, no time as a cop, but plenty of patrols under the belt.

 

[fargo007]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

+1 and adding the FLIR equipped Helicopter to the toolbox. State or ANG assets will have them.

I think it's a far out and virtually unfathomable circumstance they are proposing.

In my 20 years of LE I have never seen a K9 display a lack of interest at go-time. It's literally the only-est thing they ever want to do for their entire lives.

It is still potentially a great set of skills to develop, I just don't see it wrapping around this particular scenario that well.

--Fargo007

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChosenKarma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. A suspect darts into the woods and the dogs wont go in and they have to go after him... a suspect engages them in the woods.. They have a suspect barricaded or dug in..</div></div>

KISS

First, it's not traditional patrolling. You have a known target in a permissive environment. You are not worried about being ambushed by a numerically superior force. You are generally not worried about booby traps and stealth really isn't going to be an option for heavily armored team members.

If you don't know where he is, then the team is going to have to provide cover for the dog/handler. If the dog handler is not willing to track on that kind of mission, then he needs to find a new job. Either way, if the suspect's position is unknown it's going to be a movement to contact. They will need simple formation options and the ability to choose based on the terrain. If/When they come under fire they will need IA drills. You will need to teach them flanking and base of fire. Many officers are unfamiliar with "covering fire" so that may be a concept you will have to introduce to them.

If the suspect's position is known the solution is much simpler. Set an inside perimeter. Use cover and concealment. Deploy Snipers. Use Negotiators. If the use of deadly force is required then snipers should be able to eliminated the threat.

Our team has trained with our K9's to track an armed and violent suspect on the run. It sucks because you will be worn out. Running in full kit to keep up with the dog will tear you down. The handler has to know what he is doing.

I would say you can run the training in an eight hour block. You will need downtime to rest, so set it up to instruct then practice each drill. Use the rest time to instruct the next drill. Keep chatter time to a minimum and you should be good to go. Run it in callout gear so that they understand the limitations of moving in the woods with their equipment/weapons.

A lot of it is basic infantry tactics that we learned in SOI. Integrating the dog into it is the hard part.

If you want to discuss it in depth, PM me and we can discuss it on the phone.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

We have discussed this amoungst ourselves recently. We have had times where armed suspect/s have bailed out into wooded or rural settings. The K9's we have will track, but can quickly get exhausted in the summer heat/humidity. We can switch them out but time and conditions can fade the scent. FLIR can be an option but ours is either down or can't pickup heat signatures through the treetops if that particular bird is flying. If patrol is able to establish a perimeter quickly and ensure the suspect cannot escape through it, there can be a time when we may have to go in and search. Things we were interested in were:
tracking
formations and personnel's responsibilities
engagement in given formations/fields of fire
equipment
navigation/orientation

I may have missed some things, but that'll give you an idea.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

If you have two days I would do this type of training as senario based, 2 senario's (one for each day). The first half of the 1st day I would teach any classes such as basic navigation (direction/pace), formations, use of K-9(s), basic tracking, movement techniques/SLLS, manuver/immediate actions on contact. Have them doing some drills and formations to run get them into the evening hours, this will give your (bad guy) some time to move into the woods (within 1000m)and set up.

The 1st senario keep it simple and run it in the evening and into the night and have a way or a bad guy who can evaluate how the teams do or record what he sees the teams doing for AAR.

2nd senario will be run the entire 2nd day working on more complex senario such as multiple bad guys who move around and continue to flee. You can work the multiple teams individually or work them like a platoon using different elements such as cover and assault, or block and clear. A lengthy AAR will need to be done so that follow up training can be conducted on the areas that they lack.

 

[Parallax]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

We have instructed many officers from various agencies in such activity over the years, including DEA, NPS and USFS. My old patrol area included 700 square miles of Chequamegon National Forest, and 7000 acres of Federal Wilderness Area. It's much easier with experienced man-trackers on your department... but that can be learned. Drop me a PM with a phone number and I'll call you.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

Most has been covered but one thing you will need to focus on is most LE are used to working alone. The trick here is to get them to work as a team. Make sure your Lesson plan focus's on that aspect of patrolling in woods.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChosenKarma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was recently contacted by a member of a SWAT team that is looking for a class on patrolling in a woodland environment. Now being a Marine this sounds very simple and basic, but most of the things we teach are geared towards military/DOD/contractor/agency support. We have taught LE and SORT/SWAT teams in manners of stalking,tracking,patrolling to objectives, CQB/sniping and shooting instruction ect. However, just patrolling ? He gave me a few ideas of what they are looking for and I know I have many other questions to ask but here are a few examples... A suspect darts into the woods and the dogs wont go in and they have to go after him... a suspect engages them in the woods.. They have a suspect barricaded or dug in.. Now I know what <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> would do, but I am also smart enough to know that what a <span style="font-style: italic">Marine</span> would do vs what <span style="font-style: italic">LE</span> can do is a bit different, everything is pretty much vague on their part and it seems to me like it sounds like they have no idea what they want or need, and they want the max in as little as a few days to include nights. Now if I am to give them what <span style="font-style: italic">we</span> would deem necessary to accomplish this it would involve land nav day/night, tracking, formations, gear, IA drills,danger areas
ect ect ect... But how would I condense that into just a few days ? I know I have plenty of other questions to ask but I just wondered if anyone had any run accross this before ? We have tried in the past to avoid teaching "tactics" to LE as what we would do may not be available to them in their ROE. And most of the military runs off of their own unit SOPs. With LE we tend to say "this is a <span style="font-style: italic">way</span> to do it that <span style="font-style: italic">works</span>, now you have to figure out what works for <span style="font-style: italic">you</span>" Im not looking for just answers to the above requirements asked of us, more of an idea of what they would be looking for in a class or if anyone has an outline to that effect. We want to give them what they need, trying to stay in the guidlines of the time they asked.. without overwhelming them with to much, if that makes sense. Thanks in advance. </div></div>
I'm giving you the soldier perspective. Get them copies of FM 7-8 or the Ranger Hand Book and have them learn formation/movement techniques as well as battle drills. Teach only the fundamentals and not SOP's/not unit level TTP's.
I think I understand what they are looking for which is maneuvering and reaction to contact. The assumption on our part here is that they are limited by their ROE. This is true however I believe all bets are off when in a direct fire engagement ie protection of life, limb or eyesight. I would teach patroling techniques, react to contact (direct fire of course). I would stick with the basic file, wedge formations for movement. Show them how to establish a base of fire(support by fire, SBF) and then maneuver utilizing their assualt element to flank the enemy. This doesn't always entail shooting but it does teach a form of maneuver that could be useful in taking down an unarmed perp also by directing his attention away in the direction of what I will call SBF and using suprise to flank him and limit his avenues of escape.

Just a thought.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

Sounds like simple 'Movement to Contact' excercise, then standard Arrest/Barricade procedure once the quarry is cornered.
Locate, Close With, and Arrest? The basic patrol appears to be a simple matter of entering a given space, moving tactically to contact, then effecting arrest. As a Platoon Sergeant this was basic Train The Trainer stuff for my Subordinate NCO's. I would spend a day training them, then watch and AAR their first day of training joe. Movement to Contact is Skill Level I as is Prisoner Apprehension.
Maybe I am oversimplifying this. If so, I am ready to learn as well since there are only slight differences in current ROE as compared to LEO ROE from my understanding

 

[chosen_karma]

Re: Law Enforcement Patrolling HELP

Much appreciated all the help, the biggest concern is always the ROE, in all given situations, the situations above were just a few examples of what they were looking for in their training, and due to time and manpower constraints, we just have to put in as much as we can without overwhelming them. As to equipment issues, not EVERYONE has FLIR or thermal capabilities on hand, on time, at the scene, and the idea is to catch the guy BEFORE he gets to far.. Reminds me of the backwards "24 hours before considered missing" rule... I see the need for it.. but I am sure many of you can attest that the first 24 hours is the most critical to finding a missing person.. How many of us can "disappear" in less than 8 hours ?