Lawsuit - 4X4 is Only 3.5 Inches

[Tucker301]

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/06/22/lawsuits-seek-damages-half-century-industry-practice
[h=1]Menards and Home Depot Sued over a 4×4[/h] [h=2]4x4s are only 3.5 inches on a side? Who knew?![/h] By Michael Moran Alterio Jun 22, 2017

It’s even on Wikipedia: “Two-by-four, a common size of dimensional lumber named for its unprocessed dimensions, usually measuring 1½ × 3½ inches in practice.” But it seems that the plaintiffs in a would-be class-action lawsuit were confused by common practice — and evidently materially damaged — and are seeking redress in court.

McGuire Law of Chicago is representing three plaintiffs in federal court for the Northern District of Illinois, as detailed in a June 21, 2017, report in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. The big-box lumber dealers named in the suit are Home Depot and Menards.

A person quoted in the Journal Sentinel report was amazed. “My God, that’s crazy,” the 60-year-old bulldozer operator said of the lawsuits. “Let me on the jury. They ain’t winning. And they’re gonna pay me extra for my time.”

On Twitter, the comments are equally amazed, though more earthy in their language:

A 4×4 applied directly to the forehead might cures what ails the plaintiff’s attorney in this case!#TCOT #MAGA #WOW https://t.co/txjwZaLRfs

— Nate Nelson (@NateMFNelson) June 21, 2017​

so a guy is suing Menards because a 4×4 isn’t exactly a 4″ by 4″. Stupid people are in fact stupid

— The Dude (@WoodWhisperers) June 21, 2017​

MENARDS’ 4×4’s ARE ACTUALLY 3.5×3.5’s IM SCREAMING

— Maddy (@frickoff_) June 22, 2017​

Just because it says 4×4 doesn’t mean it’s so. And just because they say man bun, it does not mean you’re a man.

— Cory Myers (@cjmyers963) June 22, 2017​

And those are just the ones we can print in a family publication.

 

[MtnCreek]

Loser Pays would fix most of this crap.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

What a pile,of crap. Dimensional lumber is a name not a size. Idiots.

Yes. Loser pays would stop,this stuff cold.

Cheers. Sirhr

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

What do you call 2000 lawyers chained to the bottom of the ocean......................................A GOOD START!

 

[Veer_G]

The details: http://www.jsonline.com/story/money...uits-over-descriptions-lumber-size/405300001/

 

[Maggot]

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/06/22/lawsuits-seek-damages-half-century-industry-practice
[h=1]Menards and Home Depot Sued over a 4×4[/h] [h=2]4x4s are only 3.5 inches on a side? Who knew?![/h] By Michael Moran Alterio Jun 22, 2017

It’s even on Wikipedia: “Two-by-four, a common size of dimensional lumber named for its unprocessed dimensions, usually measuring 1½ × 3½ inches in practice.” But it seems that the plaintiffs in a would-be class-action lawsuit were confused by common practice — and evidently materially damaged — and are seeking redress in court.

McGuire Law of Chicago is representing three plaintiffs in federal court for the Northern District of Illinois, as detailed in a June 21, 2017, report in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. The big-box lumber dealers named in the suit are Home Depot and Menards.

A person quoted in the Journal Sentinel report was amazed. “My God, that’s crazy,” the 60-year-old bulldozer operator said of the lawsuits. “Let me on the jury. They ain’t winning. And they’re gonna pay me extra for my time.”

On Twitter, the comments are equally amazed, though more earthy in their language:

A 4×4 applied directly to the forehead might cures what ails the plaintiff’s attorney in this case!#TCOT #MAGA #WOW https://t.co/txjwZaLRfs

— Nate Nelson (@NateMFNelson) June 21, 2017​

so a guy is suing Menards because a 4×4 isn’t exactly a 4″ by 4″. Stupid people are in fact stupid

— The Dude (@WoodWhisperers) June 21, 2017​

MENARDS’ 4×4’s ARE ACTUALLY 3.5×3.5’s IM SCREAMING

— Maddy (@frickoff_) June 22, 2017​

Just because it says 4×4 doesn’t mean it’s so. And just because they say man bun, it does not mean you’re a man.

— Cory Myers (@cjmyers963) June 22, 2017​

And those are just the ones we can print in a family publication.

This has already been in court. Lowe's got hit and now label everything as 4x4 (3.5x3.5 actual)

 

[pmclaine]

I wonder if this happens in the medical realm and might be part of the reason costs have sky rocketed........

Nothing will be fixed until "shame" and "responsibility" become accepted and recognized.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I accept it now. My dad was a carpenter for 20 years and one day 20 years ago when he explained it to me I was like WTF that is stupid. But it isn't worth a law suit. I think I will go sue my ATV manufacture now cause the "800" is a few cc's short.

Guess they should start stocking 4x4 rough cut and let the purchaser do there own finishing. I could see an issue (not a law suit) if this some how happened in just the last couple years and new dimensions didn't work with older homes. But this has been standard for 50+years I would think.

Watched the video and it explains everything. Homedepot, Lowes, Menards say it is common knowledge. Common for the working man. The lawyers say it isn't. Right, for the over schooled under life educated person it isn't. Those are the ones who should be hiring the former to get the job done and shouldn't even be allowed to drive past such retail stores.

 

[pmclaine]

Used to be a time when the education system was meant to produce a "whole" "functioning" well rounded person. Schools had shop class and felt a duty to at least offer a class on tire changing.

Now we build people with just enough brains to be a danger to themselves and those around them - "Gee I wonder if I can stop that saw blade from spinning with my hands?"

Better to be a jack of all trades, master of none than a specialist in one sphere, ignorant in all others having to participate in life 24/7 while only at your "profession" less than half that time.

 

[...]

......we need to bring back polio.......no one used to bitch about this stuff when there were actual problems in the world......

 

[Veer_G]

......we need to bring back polio.......no one used to bitch about this stuff when there were actual problems in the world......

Not to mention the fact that most sufferers started out 4"x 4" and wound up about 3½" x 3½".

 

[oneshot86]

give back to them as an un planed, un sanded, sharp cornered 4x4 and watch them all go to the dr for unmercilous splinters...

 

[TheOE800]

Yes. Loser pays would stop,this stuff cold.

It would also make lawsuits unaffordable to anyone but the rich or elite.

 

[Redmanss]

This lawsuit was brought to you by HGTV, making males in loafers think they can be Men too for over twenty years.

 

[missed]

It's the flannel shirt, skinny jeans, man bun, butt fuckers leading this. If they don't have the understanding of "dimensional lumber" they don't have the authorization to buy it!

 

[Redmanss]

 

[tnichols]

And while we're at it, our 38 Specials are really .356's damn it! Who do we sue?

 

[MtnCreek]

38's are .357, unless lead and 9mm is a .355 / .356 transfag.

 

[oneshot86]

And while we're at it, our 38 Specials are really .356's damn it! Who do we sue?

them sonsofbitches

 

[earthquake]

Used to be a time when the education system was meant to produce a "whole" "functioning" well rounded person. Schools had shop class and felt a duty to at least offer a class on tire changing.

Now we build people with just enough brains to be a danger to themselves and those around them - "Gee I wonder if I can stop that saw blade from spinning with my hands?".

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

 

[2ndamendfan]

44 mag is only .429. I guess 43 mag doesn't have the ring to it.

5.0 (302) mustangs (1983-1995) were 4948.83 cc. In Australia, Europe or both (can't remember which) if that engine was used it had to be labeled and have fender tags of 4.9. It was probably Australia since ford V8s are pretty big there.

PS on further reasearch it was the Ford Falcon in Australia

 

[pmclaine]

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

Fucking horrible for all involved.

Her family/education system failed her or she was just plain mentally incompetent and never should be out in public without a caretaker.

So did OSHA fine you millions, force expensive retrofits to the equipment that killed your production and require extensive safety training programs that result in lost production time?

Everyone says "but if it saves just one finger" thinking the costs are minimal but reality in a free market world it makes us uncompetitive if we have to produce at the level of the lowest common denominator.

China incorporates amputated body parts as an ingredient of the building process (which I don't agree with) while we opt for the end of our manufacturing plants, failed businesses, unemployment, despair, drug use and death.

So yeah, stupidity carrys a cost.

 

[MtnCreek]

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

I wish I could say I don't believe that, but sadly I do.

 

[...]

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

just be thankfull she didnt try to get a drink of water from it....

 

[pmclaine]

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

another thought as I ponder this horror.....

There is something "attractive" that draws your mind to think "go ahead, just touch it." when you see such tools used.

Heat tools not so much. I think instinctually our brains are wired too deep to avoid heat but.....

the smooth machined steel on the side of a table saw blade or the rhythmic back and forth of a sawzall sings a siren song to "go ahead see if you can stop my motion or feel the cool steel of my blade"

A water cutter seems particularly attractive flowing water is cool and sweet like a river right? "Come on just feel how cool I am"

Scary. I hope I can be really good at teaching my kids real danger doesn't look dangerous.

My stomach is sick now, thinking I or my kids could do something so stupid.

 

[Rthur]

Law firm from Chicago, can you imagine my surprise...

R

 

[pmclaine]

just be thankfull she didnt try to get a drink of water from it....

A man who's glass is always half full.

I like your attitude. I thought everyone in the northeast was a jaded cynic.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Had a girl, new hire, cutting steel pipe with a water jet all day...first day on the job. End of shift she no-shit runs her fingers through it on purpose, and is all WTF?!?, when her fingers get cut off! "I don't get it, it's just water!?" Dumb-ass...you were cutting steel pipe with it all day!!! She was let go.

Gotta 'hand it' to her... she at least wanted to know more about her job. I'd applaud, but it would embarrass her... not being able to applaud back and all.

Oh and don't be harassing her at work... at least not for a handjob...

 

[pmclaine]

Gotta 'hand it' to her... she at least wanted to know more about her job. I'd applaud, but it would embarrass her... not being able to applaud back and all.

Oh and don't be harassing her at work... at least not for a handjob...

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/images-cdn.9gag.com\/photo\/a9PbyN6_700b.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Looks like Lindsay Lohan may have done a little shop liftin and learned something about her new chosen religion.

Just like over here she didn't get the message the first time and tried her hand at it a second time.

 

[...]

Gotta 'hand it' to her... she at least wanted to know more about her job. I'd applaud, but it would embarrass her... not being able to applaud back and all.

Oh and don't be harassing her at work... at least not for a handjob...

women always be looking for excuses to get out of giving a handy......bitch i aint buying it.....oil up those nubs and get to work

 

[sirhrmechanic]

It would also make lawsuits unaffordable to anyone but the rich or elite.

I respectfully disagree... it would make lawsuits realistic for the just and the harmed. And would force lawyers to take a hard, realistic look at the merits of a case. And those cases that had merit would have every chance in the justice system to compensate the harmed and punish the guilty.

For almost 30 years, I've used this statistic: Germany and Japan graduate one lawyer for every ten engineers from their universities. We graduate 10 lawyers for every engineer.

Now, 30 years later, we're a nation of paper-traders and burger flippers. Why aren't we graduating people who are building things with 4 x 4's (sorry, 3.5's x 3.5's for those too stupid to know what lumber is...) instead of people who want to get-rich quick trading worthless paper and attacking innovators with lawsuits. They sit around with their man buns and their hipster civil war veteran suits at Starbucks and think they are relevant because they have a blog.

Pardon my rant... but Shakespeare was right... and if you can't frame out a room, install a window, roof a building, install a toilet, fix a water heater, wire a panel, sweat a pipe... etc. etc. etc... you weren't raised right. All things so simple that a Mexican can do it... because they learned that what they can do with their hands is as important as what you can do with your head.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[EddieNFL]

.44 is even more misleading...it's not even a .43

 

[Sean the Nailer]

first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

That's a quote from a famous, intelligent man. Who was it again? Methinks he's on to something.....

 

[1J04]

A couple of us make a little pocket change outta cutting EXACTLY what you want because a lot of the old homes have, and want to keep, true 4x4, 1x, 2x, yada yada. These assholes are just mad they didn't think of the Subway fiasco first. This isn't original, but it is stupid as fuck. I hope they get laughed outta the Courthouse. ALL OF THEM.

 

[oneshot86]

big fat fucking AWESOME

 

[1J04]

big fat fucking AWESOME

Those posts to the right of the ladder are going to be inside corner posts for the pole building we're getting ready to get going on hot n heavy. Gonna look beautiful I think. We'll see how it turns out. Can't wait to document it.

 

[oneshot86]

i wish i was closer, i can swing a hammer like jose and hose b

 

[1J04]

i wish i was closer, i can swing a hammer like jose and hose b

I'll bet you can my friend. We should just pitch in and send ya a ticket so ya can camp out for a week or so. Beer, BBQ, and a little milling and hammering.......

 

[oneshot86]

holy shit its spank ter vision...you cray cray, next thing you know you gotta swearing dago with a tool belt and a welding truck showing up in town looking for you...

 

[pmclaine]

A couple of us make a little pocket change outta cutting EXACTLY what you want because a lot of the old homes have, and want to keep, true 4x4, 1x, 2x, yada yada. These assholes are just mad they didn't think of the Subway fiasco first. This isn't original, but it is stupid as fuck. I hope they get laughed outta the Courthouse. ALL OF THEM.

Friend of mine lives in western MA. His backyard has a similar mill set up and he has quite the wood shop with which he takes work from time to time to pay for him to be in the woods.

On his property is an old house. It was built when wood was cheap, insulation was scare and electricity wasn't an issue. Its built of stacked 2x4. kind of a log house built with 2x4 dimensional lumber. The outside is clad in regular siding so otherwise it looks like a normal house.

 

[1J04]

Mr Mclaine I will PM you a reply when I get a minute. You'll like the irony of all this and your post.

 

[P-Squared]

How about a test you have to pass to be allowed in a Lowes. Homi Boys, or Menards? You don't get in unless you pass. And while you're at it, make the employees take the same test.

 

[tnichols]

^^^ Over the years I've witnessed more than one person absolutely mesmerized by a spinning propeller. I've shut down more than once as I noticed someone walking toward a 105" Hartzell meat grinder with a dumb look on their face. It's scary when it happens in real time.

 

[1J04]

^^^ Over the years I've witnessed more than one person absolutely mesmerized by a spinning propeller. I've shut down more than once as I noticed someone walking toward a 105" Hartzell meat grinder with a dumb look on their face. It's scary when it happens in real time.

Or an A6 Intruder Intake and FOD the engine out. Damn.

We had a guy on the Constellation get sucked into an A7 Corsair and lived to tell about it. Don't be oblivious I think is the lesson. But ya, nobody walks away from the Turbo Prop. What a mess. So much fail.

 

[vh20]

Or an A6 Intruder Intake and FOD the engine out. Damn. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/V1ODogP.gif"}[/IMG2]


We had a guy on the Constellation get sucked into an A7 Corsair and lived to tell about it. Don't be oblivious I think is the lesson. But ya, nobody walks away from the Turbo Prop. What a mess. So much fail.

Yep. The guy survived the A6 because his helmet wedged in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHtgXsIxA8A

My only related experience was not due to mesmerization, but rather inattention. I was taxiing back among the hangars to my own hangar, when a fellow pilot in his truck came out from behind one of the hangars and turned to face me head-on, all the while looking OVER HIS SHOULDER! He kept coming and had no idea I was there. I slammed on brakes and nearly stood the plane on its nose. He turned around to see where he was going at the very last second. I'll never forget the helplessness I felt, and the look on his face when he turned to see the grinder. He stopped with only a couple feet to spare.

Edit: 1J04: Weird! I didn't (still don't) see the A6 video .gif in your original post, but I knew the event you referenced. I put a link to the youtube video in my post as a result. BUT, I quoted you, and the .gif shows up in my quote of your post, but not your actual post (at least for me). Weird!

 

[1J04]

Yep. The guy survived the A6 because his helmet wedged in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHtgXsIxA8A

My only related experience was not due to mesmerization, but rather inattention. I was taxiing back among the hangars to my own, when a fellow pilot in his truck came out from behind one of the hangars and turned to face me head-on, all the while looking OVER HIS SHOULDER! He kept coming and had no idea I was there. I slammed on brakes and nearly stood the plane on its nose. He turned around to see where he was going at the very last second. I'll never forget the helplessness I felt, and the look on his face when he turned to see the grinder. He stopped with only a couple feet to spare.

Edit: 1J04: Weird! I didn't (still don't) see the A6 video .gif in your original post, but I knew the event you referenced. I put a link to the youtube video in my post as a result. BUT, I quoted you, and the .gif shows up in my quote of your post, but not your actual post (at least for me). Weird!

Brutal deal man. Glad he didn't make it to the Chop-0-Matic. That woulda been hard to deal with. And yes, weird stuff happening on here. I can't get into some threads that I've posted in for some reason. PM'd Tucker and cried on his shoulder a little bit. Don't know what's going on, but my internet experience is being curtailed. So angry........ Anyhow, indeed, Flight Decks and Tarmacs are no place to have "a moment'. Usually doesn't end well. So off topic, but around here our loaded log trucks end up with like Prius bumper stickers on them and the Drivers that see it coming are helpless to do anything about it. Know a couple guys that have seen the whole show. They walk away without a scratch, the other guys get peeled outta their rigs or off the bumper. Terrible.

 

[vh20]

It's showing up now. I think it maybe was reeeaaaal slow to load and hadn't finished loading when I quoted it.

Log trucks...this event happened last year, less than three hundred yards from the propeller near-mishap I just described. The airport is just to the right of this intersection, and the pawn shop is across the road. You have to look closely in the first camera view, but there is a log truck going west (to the right on screen) and turning south. The pickup truck hits it from behind (not seen in the video) and a log goes through the cab and incapacitates the driver. He must have gone into a full tonic-type seizure because the truck goes WOT and into the pawn shop. You can see the broken off log sticking through the cab as it continues to do a burn-out in the shop. I'm indebted to these guys because they once recovered a range bag full of magazines, ammo, eye and ear pro that was stolen out of my truck - about 500 bucks worth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVgvHK6v1Ug

 

[1J04]

It's showing up now. I think it maybe was reeeaaaal slow to load and hadn't finished loading when I quoted it.

Log trucks...this event happened last year, less than three hundred yards from the propeller near-mishap I just described. The airport is just to the right of this intersection, and the pawn shop is across the road. You have to look closely in the first camera view, but there is a log truck going west (to the right on screen) and turning south. The pickup truck hits it from behind (not seen in the video) and a log goes through the cab and incapacitates the driver. He must have gone into a full tonic-type seizure because the truck goes WOT and into the pawn shop. You can see the broken off log sticking through the cab as it continues to do a burn-out in the shop. I'm indebted to these guys because they once recovered a range bag full of magazines, ammo, eye and ear pro that was stolen out of my truck - about 500 bucks worth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVgvHK6v1Ug

Good Lord. Jimmy is one seriously lucky SOB. That's amazing. He hit that shop at a pretty good magaz, I mean clip. I'm lmao a little bit cuz ya kept this on topic with the wood sticking outta the truck. Nice play. Any info on it's true dimensions? I'm kidding. And I'm also here all night. Don't forget to tip your log scaler folks.

Ever find out who grabbed your kit?

 

[vh20]

They're in jail. The guys in the video knew they were pawning stolen goods and called the cops. It wasn't just my stuff - they hit four vehicles in my neighborhood on Fri. night and tried to pawn it the next morning at that store. I filed a report Sat. morning, listed the stuff that I could remember in the bag - a bunch of Wilson Combat 1911 mags, a bunch of 30 rd PMags, some Glock 19 and 23 mags, a Glock 23 40-to-9mm Conversion barrel, various ammo for 9, 40, and .45, plus several pair of glasses, ear muffs, etc. I got a call on Mon. morning from the police who told me they had recovered my stuff. I nearly fell out! Had my stuff back Mon. afternoon. The pawn shop guys were doing their job. On Tues. morning I showed up at their place, unannounced, with a sack full of Hardee's sausage, egg, and cheese biscuits, and a very heartfelt "thank you."

Notice how the guy on the right in the second clip "just happened" to get up and move only a couple of seconds before his seat was obliterated even though he did not spot the truck coming? God was really looking out for him!

 

[1J04]

They're in jail. The guys in the video knew they were pawning stolen goods and called the cops. It wasn't just my stuff - they hit four vehicles in my neighborhood on Fri. night and tried to pawn it the next morning at that store. I filed a report Sat. morning, listed the stuff that I could remember in the bag - a bunch of Wilson Combat 1911 mags, a bunch of 30 rd PMags, some Glock 19 and 23 mags, a Glock 23 40-to-9mm Conversion barrel, various ammo for 9, 40, and .45, plus several pair of glasses, ear muffs, etc. I got a call on Mon. morning from the police who told me they had recovered my stuff. I nearly fell out! Had my stuff back Mon. afternoon. The pawn shop guys were doing their job. On Tues. morning I showed up at their place, unannounced, with a sack full of Hardee's sausage, egg, and cheese biscuits, and a very heartfelt "thank you."

Notice how the guy on the right in the second clip "just happened" to get up and move only a couple of seconds before his seat was obliterated even though he did not spot the truck coming? God was really looking out for him!

Nothing short of 'amazing'. You had hella kit in that bag. You're lucky to have it back and ya know it. And way to go on the hook up to those guys for doing a good job. You made a great impression right there and it speaks volumes of who you are. Good on ya!!! Hope the slimy thieves are enjoying themselves, but I doubt it. What facility? Some idiot might wanna make contact with them to make sure they're doing well.

When they guy got up from the other angle you could feel, and yes we knew it was gonna get real, but you could feel things were gonna go bad, fast.I bet he hugged his family 'hard' when he got home.

Now then, here we go back to respecting the OP with some 'on topic' jargon. "So tell me vh20,do you like Cedar or Pine more"?

We're funny.