Sidearms & Scatterguns LE pistol quals

[aslrookie]

When I was at the academy, we did a pistol qual that I thought did not do a good job of testing handgun skills. The qual was such:

4yd line 2 rounds from holster 8 seconds x2
4yd line 2 rounds weapon hand only starting from close ready 8 seconds
4yd line 2 rounds reaction hand only from close ready 8 seconds
7yd line 2 to the body, 2 to the head from the holster 10 seconds x2
7yd line 2 rounds weapon hand only
7yd line 2 rounds reaction hand only
15yd line 6 rounds from the holster 15 sec x2
25yd line 6 rounds in 25 seconds

30 rounds for a total score of 300. 220 minimum to pass. Target is full size silhouette. Large ring is 10pts, 7, 3, and 0 for no hits on the scored portion but does not count against you. Just a zero.

Without naming your department, what does your agency do for a pistol qual?

 

[fdkay]

Qualifications are nothing but a check in the box.
They are usually written so anyone with very basic abilities can pass them.
They are not used for a training opportunity and that type of thinking is discouraged.
We have several courses of fire.
Some of them simple, static, stand and shoot at one target.
One course involves two targets, alternating engagement to get them to think more than one target and we have actually had some qulas with movement and multiple targets.
It usually comes down to time and how many rangemasters are available to run the quals.

 

[ShtrRdy]

My son-in-law is in LE. He started out in a County Sheriff's office. I don't recall the qualification course but I do recall it involving movement for several stages.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Our Qual on electronically timed turning targets:

1 1/2 yard line bent elbow single hand shooting with gun hand from the holster.
1 rnd 2 sec
2 rnd 2 sec
3 rnd 2 sec
6 rounds total

3 yards line 2 handed shooting from the holster:
1 rnd 3 sec
2 rnd 3 sec
3 rnd 3 sec
Emergency reload
6 rounds total

7 yd High Search Drill:
1 rnd from holster 3 sec, remain at high search
1 rnd high search 3 sec
2 rnd from holster 3 sec, remain at high search
2 rnd high search 3 sec
3 rnd from holster 3 sec, remain at high search
3 rnd high search 3 sec
Emergency Reload
12 rounds total

7 yrd line transition drill from the holster:
2 rnd two handed, 1 rnd right handed, remain at high search 5 sec
3 rnd right handed, from high search 6 sec
2 rnd two handed, 1 rnd left handed, remain at high search 5 sec
3 rnd left handed, from high search 6 sec
Emergency reload
12 rounds total

15 yard line standing from the holster:
1 round 3 sec
2 round 4 sec
3 round 5 sec
4 round 6 sec
10 rounds total

15 yard line kneeling:
2 rounds standing, Emergency reload while kneeling, 2 rounds kneeling, 12 seconds
From kneeling high search, 1 round 3 sec
From kneeling high search, 2 round 4 sec
From kneeling high search, 3 round 5 sec
Magazine exchange with fresh mag before standing
10 rounds total

25 yard line barricade shooting from the holster:
4 rounds standing 4 rounds kneeling right side 30 seconds
4 rounds standing 4 rounds kneeling left side 30 seconds
16 rounds total

That should all equal 72 rounds. 5 ring vital zone, 4 ring marginal zone, all else on silhouette is a 2.
360 is a possible score, 345 is expert, and 252 is passing.

This is a quarterly qual for us. We do night quals once a year, which is the same, but the 25 yard line is dropped.

 

[PBWalsh]

Basic APOSTC (Alabama) qualification. Easy stuff.

 

[Slash0311]

Indiana just changed the state qualification to dumb it down. The head guy flat out said it was meant to help weak shooters pass. "Teaching them how to win gunfights is our jobs as department instructors."

The old course was 48 rounds, 3, 7, 15 and 25 yards. The only hard spot was the 25 which was 6 rounds right and left handed. (Standing bracing off a barricade)

New course is all fired strong hand except a few rounds at the 3. But they added a mag change and side-step movement.

Times are easy enough you can wake from a nap, fire and still pass.

 

[aslrookie]

Indiana just changed the state qualification to dumb it down. The head guy flat out said it was meant to help weak shooters pass. "Teaching them how to win gunfights is our jobs as department instructors."

The old course was 48 rounds, 3, 7, 15 and 25 yards. The only hard spot was the 25 which was 6 rounds right and left handed. (Standing bracing off a barricade)

New course is all fired strong hand except a few rounds at the 3. But they added a mag change and side-step movement.

Times are easy enough you can wake from a nap, fire and still pass.

I get that a qual isn’t meant to measure probability of winning a gunfight, but it should test proficiency and skill. It won’t test tactics or stress, but it should test your skills within the parameters of typical engagement distances.

As soon as my classmates were shooting drills instead of quals, they could barely hit the target even though the distances and targets were the same.

This makes me ask myself, is the training inadequate or the qual? Both? The only reason I’m asking is because I’d like to put together a LE qual. Our driving courses had 0 error standards on night and day EVOC course, but high liability firearms use doesn’t have the same standard.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

As soon as my classmates were shooting drills instead of quals, they could barely hit the target even though the distances and targets were the same.

This makes me ask myself, is the training inadequate or the qual? Both?

The only thing that will address this is scenario based training with a healthy dose of stress innoculation. Our training dept isn't happy unless we are getting shot with sims or cut with a shock knife at least once a quarter.

 

[Slash0311]

Thats the problem. Some see a qualification as nothing more than a proficiency test and nothing with tactics. Too many qusls reinforce bad tactics and skills.

So the question becomes whether or not a qualification course tests abilities and you have more students pass at the academy level or have a more combat skills test failng more.

My problem as an instructor is that I qual the state course because of possible arguments in any court cases but then teach tactics and skills separately.

 

[aslrookie]

I did training in the private sector after getting out of the military, so looking at it from a logistics and instructor point of view...it’s hard to get an academy class or department annual training done with a complex qualification.

It’s more time efficient to line up 20 shooters, shoot a qual, and then move onto tactics. A smaller agency could get away with a high speed qualification when they have half a day to get 10 officers through a qualification. Bigger agencies wouldn’t have that luxury.

I don’t think stress is the issue with them missing hits during drills. I believe it’s a lack of skill applied at a faster rate which consequently reveals their errors because time and comfort is not on their side.

Example: you can accurately place 5 shots in a 6” circle at 3 yards given 15 seconds to do it. Then you get 5 seconds to do the same thing, same distance, and the same target and now you’re hits are all outside the 6” circle. It wasn’t stress that caused it, it was the reduced time didn’t allow the room for error in your grip, follow-through, trigger pull, and etc.

I know some agencies have a harder qualification than others. I am just interested to see what other agencies use as a measurement for standards.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Thats the problem. Some see a qualification as nothing more than a proficiency test and nothing with tactics. Too many qusls reinforce bad tactics and skills.

So the question becomes whether or not a qualification course tests abilities and you have more students pass at the academy level or have a more combat skills test failng more.

My problem as an instructor is that I qual the state course because of possible arguments in any court cases but then teach tactics and skills separately.

You can't conjoin tactics with a qual too extensively, because you can't "grade" a tactic. Either your tactics work or they don't. What works for one doesn't work for another. If you add too much movement, then you lose the ability to have multiple shooters online at once.

It is my opinion that the problem isn't solved by making quals realistic. It is solved by additional training. What IS missing from most quals that I have seen, is sufficient basic weapon manipulation.

e.g. How well can your guys do an emergency reload, how profficient are they at fixing a malfunction, what is being done even during regular quals to break up tunnel vision?

 

[aslrookie]

You can't conjoin tactics with a qual too extensively, because you can't "grade" a tactic. Either your tactics work or they don't. What works for one doesn't work for another. If you add too much movement, then you lose the ability to have multiple shooters online at once.

It is my opinion that the problem isn't solved by making quals realistic. It is solved by additional training. What IS missing from most quals that I have seen, is sufficient basic weapon manipulation.

e.g. How well can your guys do an emergency reload, how profficient are they at fixing a malfunction, what is being done even during regular quals to break up tunnel vision?

Yes, spot on! I think malfunctions and reloads should be a measured part of the qualification by incorporating it into the qualification. If you had a malfunction during a phase and it wasn’t staged, then you’d still get the allaby.

 

[Unknown]

HR 218 Pistol Qualification Course (all rounds to center of mass)

1. From 15 yards:
move forward to cover barrel at 10 yards, kneel and fire three rounds.to center of mass..one round from each side of the barrel, and one round over the top. Right to left, or left to right, it doesn't matter. 3 rounds in 15 seconds including movement to the cover barrel.

2. At 7 yards:
from holster, draw and fire 2 rounds center of mass in 4 seconds.
from holster, draw and fire 2 rounds center of mass in 4 seconds.
from holster, draw and fire 2 rounds center of mass in 4 seconds.

3. At 5 yards:
Begin with two rounds in firearm.
From holster fire two rounds to center of mass until empty, complete a combat reload and fire 6 more rounds to center of mass in 15 seconds.

4. At 3 yards, single handed shooting:
From holster, draw and fire 3 rounds to center of mass strong hand only, transfer to support hand and fire 3 rounds to center of mass support hand only in 10 seconds.

5. At 1 yard:
From holster draw while taking a step back and fire 2 rounds center of mass in 3 seconds.

80% required to pass.

The state used to have a 10 yard qualification that allowed any score of 80% to pass...that meant that someone could completely miss the target (sort of like an IPSC target) 5x from 10 yards and still pass. We Called that the Ray Charles qualification course. Fortunately, that course is no longer used.

 

[Unknown]

This is a side comment from the qualifications. I used to teach at the State's primary police academy. I'm old enough that we used to have students shooting pistols at 50 yards, then we transitioned to 25 yards. I have immense respect for the Captain, later Major who used to run the program. He was not only a top notch shooter and administrator who could maneuver the State's political BS, he was very realistic and pragmatic about shooting.

In any case, when students were required to shoot from 50 yards at the academy, they did so because it was the expectation. Then over time, the 50 yard line was dropped, and 25 yards was the expectation. Then, while we taught 25 yard shooting the qualification distances were shortened to 15 and 10 yards.

What I noticed was that students would whine about distance shooting whether it was 15, 25, or 50 yards, but they would do it as those were the expectations. Students would eventually learn to shoot at the required distances regardless of what that distance was. The students would still think the longest distances were difficult, but would rise to the challenge regardless where the long distance shots were. I found it interesting that it wasn't the distance that mattered, it was the expectation. Tell them that "everyone shoots 50 yards", and they will eventually do it fairly well...same thing at 25 yards.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

This is a side comment from the qualifications. I used to teach at the State's primary police academy. I'm old enough that we used to have students shooting pistols at 50 yards, then we transitioned to 25 yards. I have immense respect for the Captain, later Major who used to run the program. He was not only a top notch shooter and administrator who could maneuver the State's political BS, he was very realistic and pragmatic about shooting.

In any case, when students were required to shoot from 50 yards at the academy, they did so because it was the expectation. Then over time, the 50 yard line was dropped, and 25 yards was the expectation. Then, while we taught 25 yard shooting the qualification distances were shortened to 15 and 10 yards.

What I noticed was that students would whine about distance shooting whether it was 15, 25, or 50 yards, but they would do it as those were the expectations. Students would eventually learn to shoot at the required distances regardless of what that distance was. The students would still think the longest distances were difficult, but would rise to the challenge regardless where the long distance shots were. I found it interesting that it wasn't the distance that mattered, it was the expectation. Tell them that "everyone shoots 50 yards", and they will eventually do it fairly well...same thing at 25 yards.

Similar story....

When I came in, we shot familiarization at 50 yds. It wasn't part of the qual. it just allowed you to realize that it could be readily done. Then, a few years later, things changed and that part got dropped. Now, it is being implemented again as part of the additional training but the yardage has moved back to as far as 100 yds.

Last year we had a whole section of training where we were hitting a 3/4 IPSC steel silhouette at 50, 60, 75 and 100 yards from various positions behind cover. Unlike most agencies, the average distance for one of our shootings is 38 yards.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Agree with above, quals are a CYA.

Instead of taking the allotted quarterly training time to teach something or actually train, it is just used to check a retarded box.

Not to mention, some of the stuff they cover or “train” is outdated and archaic.

 

[aslrookie]

Agree with above, quals are a CYA.

Instead of taking the allotted quarterly training time to teach something or actually train, it is just used to check a retarded box.

Not to mention, some of the stuff they cover or “train” is outdated and archaic.

Don’t even get me started with the whole range theatrics of search and assessing lol. I felt like I was back in a magpul video with costa and haley

 

[Dthomas3523]

Don’t even get me started with the whole range theatrics of search and assessing lol. I felt like I was back in a magpul video with costa and haley

I don’t mind the “checkpoints” or searching. But I needs to be explained properly.

When under stress (like a gunfight), we develop tunnel vision. It’s a defense mechanism to focus all our energy on the threat.

Scanning left to rifht helps to either alleviate tunnel vision or at least see if another threat is out of our tunnel.

But, it is hardly ever explained this way (since most don’t know, they just teach what they were taught). So it seems like theatrics to most.

Missed teaching opportunity 100% of the time when this isn’t explained.

 

[aslrookie]

I don’t mind the “checkpoints” or searching. But I needs to be explained properly.

When under stress (like a gunfight), we develop tunnel vision. It’s a defense mechanism to focus all our energy on the threat.

Scanning left to rifht helps to either alleviate tunnel vision or at least see if another threat is out of our tunnel.

But, it is hardly ever explained this way (since most don’t know, they just teach what they were taught). So it seems like theatrics to most.

Missed teaching opportunity 100% of the time when this isn’t explained.

I agree. I also think doing it on a static shooting line takes away from the learning and application value. If it’s not reinforced during movement drills when going to or coming from cover, change of position, and whatnot then it’s just theatrics.

I just personally believe range time is for shooting. Sim training is for tactics. Some can bleed into each other but then the learning value is diminishing.

 

[Supersubes]

Ours does a pretty good job I think. I’ve been an instructor for the dept since 2008. In a nutshell, we do close quarters, strong or week hand only, reloads from strong or weak hand only, firing from both sides of barricades. We also have a malfunction drill using a magazine sequenced with dummy and live rounds where you have to work through immediate and remedial action to get the gun working again, and still get rounds on target under par times. A while back we added a slow fire 20yd stage to make the course of fire an even 50 rds.

We do that once a year. The other 11 months of the year we mix it up quite a bit with a lot of movement, deploying from patrol vehicles, nights shoots, and transitions from long guns to the sidearm.

The most important thing to me is to recognize when I have a shooter who’s abandoning fundamentals and fixing it immediately, as opposed to checking the box and sending him/her down the road. We’re one on one usually, so that’s not too difficult. Rarely do we line everybody up and shoot together, it does happen though. We’re a huge department, so circumstances vary a bit office to office. Overall though, I think the department takes things pretty seriously.

 

[Unknown]

Similar story....

When I came in, we shot familiarization at 50 yds. It wasn't part of the qual. it just allowed you to realize that it could be readily done. Then, a few years later, things changed and that part got dropped. Now, it is being implemented again as part of the additional training but the yardage has moved back to as far as 100 yds.

Last year we had a whole section of training where we were hitting a 3/4 IPSC steel silhouette at 50, 60, 75 and 100 yards from various positions behind cover. Unlike most agencies, the average distance for one of our shootings is 38 yards.

A 38 yard average for shootings is pretty far compared to most other agencies. At least your agency was willing to look into the distances at which shootings usually happen, and model some of their training to actually reflected reality. You are fortunate.

Before I took over as chief firearms instructor, my agency allowed warm up practice before qualifications, and alibi shots for equipment that didn't work, or when the officers would merely look at their weapon when it had a malfunction rather than clearing it and getting back into the fight. I changed it to no warm ups, and no alibis. I figured that if we allowed officers to choose their weapon, they have precisely zero excuses for equipment that doesn't work...

 

[SOBRYDEL]

We do the qual course that is mandated by CLEET in Oklahoma. Every agency/officer in the state is required to shoot the CLEET course at least one time each calendar year or your cetification will be suspended. Agencies can run their own courses but still have to shoot this one the one time each year.

25 yard line has three stages
2 rounds kneeling with barricade support to center mass in 5 seconds
2 rounds standing with barricade support to center massin 5 seconds
2 round strong but weak side barricade support to center mass in 5 seconds

15 yard line
1 round standing and one kneeling to center mass in 6 seconds

7 yard line
4 rounds center mass in 4 seconds

5 yard line
3 rounds center chest and 1 to the head in 4 seconds

3 yard line
3 rounds strong two hand then transition to weak hand and fire 3 more one handed center mass in 6 seconds

3 foot line
3 rounds one handed in 2.5 seconds to center mass

Everything is from the holster except stage 2 and 3 at the 25 yard line and the 15 yard stage.
Minimum score 72 %

 

[aslrookie]

I like that qual. I am going to shoot it myself and how I do. What is the center mass target size?

 

[SOBRYDEL]

I like that qual. I am going to shoot it myself and how I do. What is the center mass target size?

Actually measures almost 11" wide and 14" tall. Everything has to be in the big ring. I'm not even sure why the smaller center ring is there. The headshot has to be in the 3.5" circle.

 

[aslrookie]

Thanks. I always enjoy trying new quals or tests of skill.

 

[WATERWALKER]

I shoot the same qual as @Skookum & @Dthomas3523 For its intended purpose it’s a decent qual course w/ turning targets / time limits. As a static qual, it’s far less challenging.


The qual course is generally followed up by an exercise that will gauge tactics separately from marksmanship. I think SIMS marking cartridges are more accurate than people give them credit for & they greatly expand your training opportunities. Students tend to treat training a bit more seriously when there is the possibility of being shot.

If you want to challenge yourself on a qual course, shoot a double qual. You have the same amount of time to shoot DOUBLE the round count on the same target. For example, as Skookum laid out the COF above, “Three rounds in 3 seconds, high search & when your target reappears, fire an additional 3 rounds.” Now, you’ll fire six rounds in 3 seconds, high search & an additional six rounds in 3 seconds. It’s challenging.

*If you really want a challenge you can stand in the middle of two targets & shoot a double-qual. To be clear, you shoot a qual on each target in the time allotted for one qual. You’ll need twelve mags for this drill, or reload all mags after the short course. IE: “When your target appears, engage the left target w/ three rounds & engage the right target w/ three rounds in 3 seconds while remaining at high search. When your target reappears you will engage each target w/ an additional three rounds in 3 seconds.” It’s quick, but it’s also doable. This particular drill will show you just how much time you really have on the qual course.


I’ve already started training w/ a Glock (G22) in readiness for the transition to the new pistol. I shot the qual course & I double-pumped a round at seven yards (two-handed) & another round at 15 yards on rapid fire stages & still didn’t do too bad. My group was a little left, but I can live w/ it. I carry a G22 as my carry gun, but I don’t shoot it often. W/ a 9 MM cartridge & more time on the gun I’ll shoot it even better.

FWIW, I shoot the G22 about as well as my issued pistol. I like the Glock so much more because I prefer it’s ergos. The P2000 doesn’t fit my hand nearly as well. That being said, the points I lose are because of my own deficiencies.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Ah yes. The joke that is called LE pistol quals.

The guy that said it's nothing but a check in the box hit the nail on the head.

Anyone with one arm (despite being right or left handed), and not completely retarded can pass.

An embarrassment is what they are. Just passing means nothing.

I'd love to find one that takes more than the most basic skill level imaginable to pass.

Standards need to be raised.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

From the outside looking in, retired Navy, not law enforcement. Any qual is a piece of paper to record training.

When firearms became a dirty word police quit shooting. Anyone with a basic understanding of bull's eye shooting can clean most quals. I have more problems using both hands than with one.

My feeling is that training and qualification has taken a back seat to training on administrative training and political considerations, same with military training.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

From the outside looking in, retired Navy, not law enforcement. Any qual is a piece of paper to record training.

When firearms became a dirty word police quit shooting. Anyone with a basic understanding of bull's eye shooting can clean most quals. I have more problems using both hands than with one.

My feeling is that training and qualification has taken a back seat to training on administrative training and political considerations, same with military training.

I'd say pretty accurate

 

[AK4900PA]

If you think that's bad you should see how little it takes to qualify with a firearm as a correctional officer. Our standards are ridiculously low and yet every year I watch 10%-20% of the group have to do a re-fire. It's scary.

 

[Mark.n.chip]

We do it just to satisfy MCOLES. It’s a joke 255 ends less than 10yds. We get it over with so we can do shoot on the move reloads etc.

 

[davsco]

a few years back, for fun, i shot the dhs/ice handgun qual with guys who actually needed the cert. what a joke that was, a pretty low bar. frankly, disappointed that sworn folks carrying guns aren't held to a higher if not much higher standard.

 

[FishDr]

Yes, spot on! I think malfunctions and reloads should be a measured part of the qualification by incorporating it into the qualification. If you had a malfunction during a phase and it wasn’t staged, then you’d still get the allaby.

Did exactly this a few years ago during a qual. Had my pistol lockup with an ammo-caused malfunction (FTF) during the 6-rounds at 10 yards, 6 sec. portion. There was not supposed to be a mag change, but that was required to clear the malf. Pulled the last shot, but passed without issue. Another officer in my squad had to reshoot. ?

 

[Sniperdoc077]

The Dept I used to work at had a Course that was pretty much a joke (25,10,7,3 yards; no wineak hand mandatory shooting; all shooting from standing; pretty much a Bullseye shoot, 75 of 100 to pass) but once we shot it in winter, with sleet falling.

 

[18Echo]

AZPOST Handgun Qualification Course Of Fire
50 Round Course of Fire / each round = 5 points / 250 max. score / 210 minimum to qualify

25 yard line / from the holster 3 rounds - 10 seconds
25 yard line / from the low ready 4 rounds - 10 seconds

15 yard line / from the holster 3 rounds - 5 seconds
15 yard line / from the holster 2 rounds - 4 seconds
15 yard line / from the low ready 1 round - 2 seconds
15 yard line / 3 rounds only in the firearm / from the holster fire 3 rounds - empty gun reload - fire 3 rounds - 14 seconds

7 yard line / 3 rounds only in the firearm / from the holster fire 3 rounds - empty gun reload - fire 3 rounds - 12 seconds
7 yard line / at least 4 rounds in the firearm / from the low ready fire 3 rounds - tactical or reload with retention - fire 3 rounds - 12 seconds
7 yard line / firearm must have a empty chamber - load magazine in the weapon with at least 3 rounds - draw and attempt to fire (must press the trigger) - perform failure to fire drill (tap/rack) - fire 3 rounds - 7 seconds
7 yard line / from the holster 4 rounds - 6 seconds

3 yard line / All drills from the 3 yard line are failure drills - 2 rounds to the body, 1 round to the head while taking a lateral step in the direction indicated by the range office

3 yard line / STRONG HAND ONLY - from the holster fire a failure drill - 4 seconds
3 yard line / SUPPORT HAND ONLY - from the low ready fire a failure drill - 4 seconds
3 yard line / NORMAL 2 HAND SHOOTING - from the holster fire a failure drill - 4 seconds
3 yard line / NORMAL 2 HAND SHOOTING - from the holster fire a failure drill - 4 seconds

 

[308pirate]

I have more problems using both hands than with one.

That's what you get from shooting so much bullseye. Ever shoot any USPSA? Or even IDPA?

 

[308pirate]

Can you guys who posted your dept quals edit your post to include the target specifics (if you haven't already)?

I'd like to try a few of these just to see for myself.

 

[WATERWALKER]

@Skookum posted our qual course in comment #4. FWIW, this was shot w/ turning targets. In post #26 I posted a qual target that I shot. Its OK, but there are plenty of guys who shoot a pistol better than I do. Out of a possible 360, I shot a 355.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

That's what you get from shooting so much bullseye. Ever shoot any USPSA? Or even IDPA?

Old dog learning new tricks here. I've shot a couple of local practical pistol matches and the Navy Matches have added 3 Gun/ Action matches the past two years. But for 20 + years I shot way more Bull's Eye compared to the annual Navy Qual course. "Problems" with two hand isn't that I can't do it, it just doesn't "feel right", Quals were high 230's out of 240.

 

[308pirate]

"Problems" with two hand isn't that I can't do it, it just doesn't "feel right", Quals were high 230's out of 240.

If you want to speed up your learning curve I recommend three purchases and the discipline to make and follow a training plan based on those purchases:

• A shot timer
• This book: https://benstoegerproshop.com/dryfi...ol-shooter-paperback-book-and-scaled-targets/
• This book: https://benstoegerproshop.com/practical-pistol-reloaded-paperback-book-by-ben-stoeger/

Then start attending USPSA matches, even if it's one a month or one every two months.

"Quals", be they police or military, universally have pretty lenient time and accuracy standards and any semi competent (USPSA B class) shooter can smoke without too much trouble.

 

[Mike4837]

As several have mentioned, a qualification course by it's very nature, is a minimum standard to check a box. However, you can make the course of fire more challenging. Double the distance or cut the time in half. Then, do both. Then make it triple the distance and half the time, etc. If nothing else, that makes the actual qual course seem easy.

 

[R.Markus]

We do this pathetic course of fire as designated by the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy. You'd have to be brain dead to fail it, but we still have people that do.


Stage 1 - 3 yard line – 10 rounds in 2 magazines of 5 rounds. Two handed, Strong handed firing.

The shooter will start with one (01) magazine of 5 rounds loaded and holstered. When the target faces, fire 3 rounds in 5 seconds. The shooter will then scan and go to the low ready. When the target faces a second time, the shooter will fire 2 rounds, conduct a combat magazine exchange, and then fire 2 rounds in a total of 12 seconds. The shooter will scan and go to the low ready. When the target faces a third time, the shooter will fire 3 rounds in 3 seconds. When the stage of fires is completed the command to cease fire, clear and holster all weapons will be given.

Stage 2 - 5 yard line – 10 rounds in 2 magazines of 5 rounds. One handed only firing.

The shooter will start with one (01) magazine of 5 rounds loaded and holstered. When the target faces, fire 5 rounds strong-handed only, conduct a 2 handed combat reload, then fire 5 rounds support-handed only in 17 seconds. When the stage of fires is completed the command to cease fire, clear and holster all weapons will be given.

Stage 3 - 7 yard line – 10 rounds in 2 magazines of 5 rounds. Two handed, Strong handed firing.

The shooter will start with one (01) magazine of 5 rounds loaded and holstered. When the target faces, the shooter will take one (01) step to the strong side, draw and fire 10 rounds in 20 seconds. Shooters must do a combat reload after 5 rounds. When the stage of fires is completed the command to cease fire, clear and holster all weapons will
be given.

Stage 4 - 15 yard line – 10 rounds in 2 magazines of 5 rounds.

The shooter will start with one (01) magazine of 5 rounds loaded and holstered. When the target faces, fire 5 rounds from the standing position, conduct a combat reload, then 5 rounds from the kneeling position in 25 seconds. When the stage of fires is completed the command to cease fire, clear and holster all weapons will be given.

Stage 5 - 25 yard line – 10 rounds in 2 magazines of 5 rounds. Two handed, Strong handed firing

The shooter will be positioned behind a standing barricade. The shooter will start with one (01) magazine of 5 rounds loaded and holstered. When the target faces, fire 5 rounds from the strong side of the barricade, conduct a combat reload, then 5 rounds from the support side of the barricade in 40 seconds. All firing will be with the weapon in the strong hand, two handed firing. When the stage of fires is completed the command to cease fire, clear and holster all weapons will be given. ***During Stage 5 only, the first round may be shot in: Single or Double Action mode.​

 

[Barracho]

Try shooting some IDPA matches to improve your skills. Moving targets, reloading, doors, barricades, hostages, etc. I’ve competed against some police officers and apparently they didn’t practice much- good thing they were out there. If your departments aren’t training you enough go find a local club and try some of these events- you’ll be a better shooter after a couple of seasons- and it’s a LOT of fun!

 

[Barracho]

If you want to speed up your learning curve I recommend three purchases and the discipline to make and follow a training plan based on those purchases:

• A shot timer
• This book: https://benstoegerproshop.com/dryfi...ol-shooter-paperback-book-and-scaled-targets/
• This book: https://benstoegerproshop.com/practical-pistol-reloaded-paperback-book-by-ben-stoeger/

Then start attending USPSA matches, even if it's one a month or one every two months.

"Quals", be they police or military, universally have pretty lenient time and accuracy standards and any semi competent (USPSA B class) shooter can smoke without too much trouble.

Thanks for the book references....

 

[j-moose32]

Just coming across this thread. We have a 60 round qual starting from arms length and eventually 10 rounds from 25 yards shot from whatever position you choose. If you hit the paper, you pass. Rather pathetic. Recently have done training on my own which the department wouldn’t even give me ammo for

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Try shooting some IDPA matches to improve your skills. Moving targets, reloading, doors, barricades, hostages, etc. I’ve competed against some police officers and apparently they didn’t practice much- good thing they were out there. If your departments aren’t training you enough go find a local club and try some of these events- you’ll be a better shooter after a couple of seasons- and it’s a LOT of fun!

That's what I've done locally. It's not a perfect analog, but it's pretty close. I remember taking a few guys with me once. One had been in for like 25 years, we all laughed at each other when we got smoked by a 12 year old girl with an STI open gun.

Kinda humbling when you think you are a badass cuz you've been in military or LEO for a while and a kid comes out and smashes you for time and score. That's when most guys don't come back. But I bbn like the competition so I go as much as possible.

 

[j-moose32]

Try shooting some IDPA matches to improve your skills. Moving targets, reloading, doors, barricades, hostages, etc. I’ve competed against some police officers and apparently they didn’t practice much- good thing they were out there. If your departments aren’t training you enough go find a local club and try some of these events- you’ll be a better shooter after a couple of seasons- and it’s a LOT of fun!

Another guy recommended I do this as well. Trying my first one next week. Can’t wait to see how humbling this will be lol

 

[pmclaine]

Another guy recommended I do this as well. Trying my first one next week. Can’t wait to see how humbling this will be lol

It shouldnt be humbling at all.

I havent shot one but my club is heavily invested in action shooting.

They will practically blow new people to their sport in order to ensure they are happy.

Just go slow and be safe.

Make good shots forget the clock at present.

Speed is for later.

 

[j-moose32]

It shouldnt be humbling at all.

I havent shot one but my club is heavily invested in action shooting.

They will practically blow new people to their sport in order to ensure they are happy.

Just go slow and be safe.

Make good shots forget the clock at present.

Speed is for later.

True. I mean it in a good way though. A wake up call to get myself better training kind of. If that makes sense

 

[pmclaine]

True. I mean it in a good way though. A wake up call to get myself better training kind of. If that makes sense

If this even concerns you, you are 100 percent ahead of most cops.

.......and I say that as a cop.

Rifle qual Monday....cant wait, getting paid to shoot. Thank you 'Murica. The people that are my boss are the best!

........except for those cock suckers dumping water on NY cops.