Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

[savageman]

Looking to get an accurate 308 autoloader. I have read all the great reviews about the gap 10 but never hear anything about the Les baer. Has anyone fired the Les? How does it compare to the GAP? Just want to get the best auto loader our there. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

dont' even look at the les baer then. honestly the GAP 10 really is the best thing running right now. if you want other options look at the LMT MWS and larue OBR. those are teh only three i would buy.

 

[Speeddog]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I'm running an 18" Les Baer Monolith with integral muzzle break and Geisele two stage match trigger. Scope is an NSX 5.5-22 and pod is an Atlas.

The rifle will shoot sub .5MOA with 175 gr FGMM all day long if I do my part. The barrel, upper and lower and all major components except the trigger are made in house. Frankly it's a beautiful piece of work.

Not to argue with Big Joe who I suspect knows a lot more about this stuff than I do but I would recommend you give the Baer a look. The GAP is certainly excellent but choices are always good things. Good luck making yours; hope this helps

 

[savageman]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Thanks for the replies guys. I will give gap a call soon. Still like the les though.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dont' even look at the les baer then. honestly the GAP 10 really is the best thing running right now. if you want other options look at the LMT MWS and <span style="text-decoration: line-through">larue OBR</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">POF P308</span>. those are teh only three i would buy. </div></div>

There ya go. Fixed it for ya.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

POF is supposed to make nice stuff, I just honestly don't have enough rounds through em to reccomend em.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dont' even look at the les baer then. honestly the GAP 10 really is the best thing running right now. if you want other options look at the LMT MWS and <span style="text-decoration: line-through">larue OBR</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">POF P308</span>. those are teh only three i would buy. </div></div>

There ya go. Fixed it for ya.

</div></div>

Killshot, you are always so helpful . . .

Jim G

 

[KillShot]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Ha ha ha ha ha! Hey...I'm tryin...cut me some slack!

 

[BCP]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

What kind of accuracy are you hoping for?

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

for years George has had his guns on prize tables across the country.......most here like to stick to what they know and support them that support us , that being said,,,,,Boltripper never saw a les bear on any prize table in the six or so states i have shot in.....



just sayin

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Gap10. I have had em both. No comparison.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made. </div></div>

You get out what you put in to something... GA Precision put's out great rifles, great customer service, and great community support here and in the shooting commuity. So as expected he gets great support back.

 

[Mike]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made. </div></div>

You're right. This is a GAP heavy sight for a good reason. GAP had supported the industry for a number of years building rifles from the ground up. His rifles are extremely accurate, run well, and his service is above and beyond.

Now read that last sentence <span style="font-style: italic">"His rifles are extremely accurate, run well, and his service is above and beyond."</span>

That doesn't make GAP rifles "the best". That doesn't say his rifles are the only ones out there who meet those criterion. But when Les Baer lets me call him personally and talk with him in depth, when Les Baer lets me come to his shop, when Les Baer is throwing rifles at prize tables match after match, year after year, come talk to me about how we should put Les Baer on equal footing here. GAP has done this for a VERY long time. GAP has earned their place here, in the shooting community and the gunsmithing world through hard work, excellent products and exceptional customer service.

Now that doesn't even address the ridiculous statement of the Baer will out shoot any SEMI auto made. Pure opinion and speculation at best, truth it is not.

 

[koz]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now that doesn't even address the ridiculous statement of the Baer will out shoot any SEMI auto made. Pure opinion and speculation at best, truth it is not. </div></div>

Wasn't the F&D defense 308 declared the best in another thread?

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made. </div></div>

You're right. This is a GAP heavy sight for a good reason. GAP had supported the industry for a number of years building rifles from the ground up. His rifles are extremely accurate, run well, and his service is above and beyond.

Now read that last sentence <span style="font-style: italic">"His rifles are extremely accurate, run well, and his service is above and beyond."</span>

That doesn't make GAP rifles "the best". That doesn't say his rifles are the only ones out there who meet those criterion. But when Les Baer lets me call him personally and talk with him in depth, when Les Baer lets me come to his shop, when Les Baer is throwing rifles at prize tables match after match, year after year, come talk to me about how we should put Les Baer on equal footing here. GAP has done this for a VERY long time. GAP has earned their place here, in the shooting community and the gunsmithing world through hard work, excellent products and exceptional customer service.

Now that doesn't even address the ridiculous statement of the Baer will out shoot any SEMI auto made. Pure opinion and speculation at best, truth it is not.</div></div> you have to respect that about GA Precision and how they support the community.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now that doesn't even address the ridiculous statement of the Baer will out shoot any SEMI auto made. Pure opinion and speculation at best, truth it is not. </div></div>

Wasn't the F&D defense 308 declared the best in another thread?

</div></div>

Ha ha ha ha! I saw the "F&D Defense" before reading the rest of your comment and thought to myself...<span style="font-style: italic">holy shit, it's this clown again?!</span> LoL

 

[savageman]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of accuracy are you hoping for?

The best I possibly can. I guess high .3s or low .4s


</div></div>

 

[jevan126]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Why so much hate on this board, If we all get honest with ourselves, I think we can all agree that just about every manufacture we talk about on this site make great weapons. It truely comes down to personal preference. Although there are a few that stand a little higher than the others. JP Enterprises and GAP come to mind first. I just shot a JP LRP07 and wow it was sweet, felt just like a .223 remington and as accurate as anything I have witnessed. And I have also shot a LES BAER Match and it backs up everything, just a little on the heavy side though.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Les is a good buddy of a buddy of a good buddy of mine. Les gave Craig one of his monolithic AR10s, who loaned it to my buddy and I to play with.

I was only able to play out to 200 yards, with 175gr 7.62x51 FGMM, but that rifle flat out hammered. 10 shots stacked on top of eachother, certainly less than 1/2 moa. Plus, I wasn't taking my sweet time either - I just loaded the mag and pretty much let loose. Either my DPMS SASS is junk or it's hard to drive well - I'd been thinking it was probably just me, until this Baer AR10.

I have nothing against the GAP10, and I'm sure they're great, but I haven't used one. I have used the Baer, and it is one SWEEEEET piece.

If anyone is in Southeastern Michigan and wants to try it, let me know.

 

[BCP]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either my DPMS SASS is junk or it's hard to drive well - I'd been thinking it was probably just me, until this Baer AR10.
</div></div>

I'd honestly like to see some targets and a range report. Barrel length/muzzle velocity/weight? details, details...

 

[BCP]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savageman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The best I possibly can. I guess high .3s or low .4s
</div></div>

Are you capable of shooting those sorts of groups is the real question.

Most 308 AR's I've shot have grouped at an inch or better with match ammo despite the price. The DPMS SASS I had was 3/4MOA or better and that is a 200$ barrel. Some like the GAP 10, OBR, JP and now Les Baer sound are proving to be out of the box 1/2MOA if you do your part. There really is no special sauce just a well-put-together rifle and a good shooter using good ammunition.

To ask for better than that? Uhhh...Calling GAP or JP would be a good start but beyond that not sure what to tell you...that is getting into the realm of benchrest spacegun type accuracy.

 

[jevan126]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I can tell you from experience that the Les Baer semi-auto is a very sweet weapon. It is a little heavy for some but it shoots every time you pull the trigger and hits were you aim it. The one I shot had a 24" Bar. weighed about 13.5 - 14.0 lbs. with scope and ammo. But the one thing I will agree on is that the GAP-10 for the Dollar cannot be beat.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either my DPMS SASS is junk or it's hard to drive well - I'd been thinking it was probably just me, until this Baer AR10.
</div></div>

I'd honestly like to see some targets and a range report. Barrel length/muzzle velocity/weight? details, details... </div></div>

I had planned to make a "to do" out of the range trip with the Baer, but more people than I expected showed up including a newbie I've been courting into the way of the rifle, so I ended up spending time with him. I didn't spend more than 10 minutes with the Baer - 5 of which was de-oiling the upper. Had a couple blown primers cause a WTF moment.

I will take it out again in the coming weeks/months and post more. Until then:

18" Heavy barrel, think it was fluted, monolithic upper
Les Baer muzzlebrake/compensator - worked GREAT!!!!
Geissle two stage trigger - about 2lb letoff
Weighed just about same as my SASS
Nightforce 3-15x50 NPR1 - mounted in Les Baer rings.
Versapod bipod

EDIT: Almost forgot! Rifle came from Les with a < 1/4 moa 5x5 test target!!!

 

[psmith]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Ill have to back up turbo54. I was there when he was shooting the baer. It was definitely a shooter and one I would consider if its in your price range.

 

[savageman]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savageman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The best I possibly can. I guess high .3s or low .4s
</div></div>

Are you capable of shooting those sorts of groups is the real question.

Most 308 AR's I've shot have grouped at an inch or better with match ammo despite the price. The DPMS SASS I had was 3/4MOA or better and that is a 200$ barrel. Some like the GAP 10, OBR, JP and now Les Baer sound are proving to be out of the box 1/2MOA if you do your part. There really is no special sauce just a well-put-together rifle and a good shooter using good ammunition.

To ask for better than that? Uhhh...Calling GAP or JP would be a good start but beyond that not sure what to tell you...that is getting into the realm of benchrest spacegun type accuracy. </div></div>

With my TRG I can shoot that good. The trg ergos fit me perfectly ( plus that awsome trigger) I reload most ammo I shoot so it will be made for the rifle. No iam not saying i can shoot that good with an auto. But even if i could only shot 1moa why wouldn't I want a rifle that is capable of much better

 

[jimmykm21]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made. </div></div>

Can't speak on the .308 Les Baer but I have shot their 5.56

A person at my club has one. It was the most accurate AR15
I have ever shot. It was also the the finest fit and finish I have ever seen on an AR platform. It was the heavy barrel stainless version they sell.

 

[flyboy10]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

As I have a Baer monolithic on the way, I'm very intrigued by this thread...when the new girlfriend gets here, I'll be sure to chime in with a range report and specs.

 

[jevan126]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

You might as well set the marriage date as I know you will be in LOVE. I own multiple Les Baers, His firearms whether 1911 or AR-10"s ALL SHOOT SUPER ACCURATE.

 

[jevan126]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

P.S. And are 100% Reliable

 

[darthceadus]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I've heard that the Baer ar-10 really shoot but make no mistake so does t Gap-10 . 5 shots through darn near the same hole are the norm for my Gap . I have a picture of a 10 shot group thats smaller than a dime and awash shot under 30 seconds . I just don't know how to post a picture because in my opinion proof is in the pudding .

 

[komifornian]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about JP's rifles? I have an LRP-07 and it's more accurate than my custom bolt gun and is of the highest quality from a manufacturing standpoint. JP also has outstanding customer service.
Frankly, I think GAP gets way too much 'biased' input on this site. When I first started visiting this site I was under the impression that GAP was either an investor or part owner of the site.
However, I'm sure their great rifles.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why doesn't anyone ever talk about JP's rifles? I have an LRP-07 and it's more accurate than my custom bolt gun and is of the highest quality from a manufacturing standpoint. JP also has outstanding customer service.
Frankly, I think GAP gets way too much 'biased' input on this site. When I first started visiting this site I was under the impression that GAP was either an investor or part owner of the site.
However, I'm sure their great rifles.
</div></div>

The first morning of Mammoth, we were able to check our zeroes on paper. A fella next to me had a JP in 308, with non-reciprocating side charging handle. He put 3 or 4 rounds into the same perfectly centered hole at 100 yards. Talking with him during the event, he said his JP is as accurate as any other rifle he's got.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why doesn't anyone ever talk about JP's rifles? I have an LRP-07 and it's more accurate than my custom bolt gun and is of the highest quality from a manufacturing standpoint. JP also has outstanding customer service.
Frankly, I think GAP gets way too much 'biased' input on this site. When I first started visiting this site I was under the impression that GAP was either an investor or part owner of the site.
However, I'm sure their great rifles.
</div></div>

I too got to see JP's in action at Mammoth, they are very well made rifles. JP himself is very nice and easy to talk to and and spent quite a bit of time talking about all the things they do to "accurize" their files. I don't think anyone could go wrong with getting one of his rifles.

 

[komifornian]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I'm was soo impressed with the quality and accuracy that I ordered an scr-11 in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

The OP did not ask who gave away the most stuff to the favored few, who was the most popular etc. What he did say is "just looking to get the best autoloader out there." He also in his first sentence indicated accuracy was the focus.
He limited his selection to LB or GAP.
In my opinion, LB wins, hands down. No matter how many rifles George gives away. It is just my opinion not a proven fact.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

How can you have an "opinion" about a fact? Either it is or isn't more accurate. That's not up to emotions, opinions, or feelings.

I'd prefer to buy ARs from companies that know which direction the castle nut on the receiver extension goes.

 

[BCP]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

JP has plenty of recognition for their rifles just in different circles. This site is big on GAP because GAP is very active here and at related events.

 

[savageman]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Thanks for all the input guys. All I can say is that after reading all your replies, I don't think that with either JP, LES, or GAP I can really go wrong. ( I had never thought of JP before). I am going to make my decision here in about a week and apparently any of those three are going to make me happy.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my opinion, LB wins, hands down. No matter how many rifles George gives away. It is just my opinion not a proven fact. </div></div>

You guys need to read what was actually said and what in response to. People simply stated that this site supports GA Precision for what they do in the shooting community only after someone mouthed off with...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a GAP site, Les Baer will get no love here. From what I have seen, the Baer will outshoot any .308 simi auto made. </div></div>

as for this...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly, I think GAP gets way too much 'biased' input on this site. When I first started visiting this site I was under the impression that GAP was either an investor or part owner of the site.
However, I'm sure their great rifles.
</div></div>

So it's now being "biased" when someone's quality and accuracy is above & beyond and recognized for that fact? And they are a site vendor and supporter which means they are entitled to such. Also, go back and read the 1st response where they also suggested LMT MWS and LaRue OBR.

 

[komifornian]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

It's biased if you claim GAP is the best and you own one. I was biased when I said I think JP is the best - I own one. I was simply calling out the fact that there is BY FAR more GAP bias on this site than independent reviews.
I’m sure GAP makes ‘top shelf’ rifles but they absolutely aren’t the only company that does and folks that are interested in buying an expensive gun should expect get the full picture from a site like this.

So, a good post would start off like this. I own a GAP so I’m biased. However, …….

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's biased if you claim GAP is the best and you own one. I was biased when I said I think JP is the best - I own one. I was simply calling out the fact that there is BY FAR more GAP bias on this site than independent reviews.
I’m sure GAP makes ‘top shelf’ rifles but they absolutely aren’t the only company that does and folks that are interested in buying an expensive gun should expect get the full picture from a site like this.

So, a good post would start off like this. I own a GAP so I’m biased. However, …….
</div></div>

Can't disagree with that. I only own a GAP-10 and have never even held an LB or a JP, so all I can say is I love my mine and it's worth every penny... Hopefully I can get my hands on all of them someday...

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Broker,
That was my point exactly, read the original question, then answer it. Neither I nor the OP apparently give a rats ass what George gives away. We just want the most accurate AR's and for me that is Les Baer. I own quite a few, have shot a GAP and own two KAC's and have owned at least two dozen other AR's. Nothing has approached the Baer.
Tyler,
I said opinion, as I have not shot every Baer or every GAP and did not want to make a "fact" of a small sample.
I prefer my AR's to shoot very small groups and long range and not malfunction. The LB's do this better than anything else I have seen.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Neither of you can argue that the support GA Precision gets isn't undeserved or unexpected. If the OP had asked that question on barf.com you know the fanboys would've completely ruled out both and screamed LaRue when they've never even touched either. At least here most of the responses were from those that have in fact handled and shot both. Were there opinions biased towards GAP... probably... but at least they've had hands on with both. The OP did ask who has fired both...

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

Here is your independant review. Ryan and I were not compensated in any way by George. In fact it cost me shipping both ways $150.00 to run this test. We did get to test the GAP 10 and shoot it in a match. We placed pretty high.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...703#Post3035703

 

[joemusso]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

+1 for the Les Baer

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

JP makes some really cool, innovative products. I have never seen a JP product that wasn't top notch. JP puts as much down on prize tables as anybody, just not at precision matches; their bread and butter is 3 Gun style rifles.

GAP supports the sport and produces consistant quality at a fair price. I personally don't like the GAP/POF/Hogan integrated upper rail, but that's my taste.

The Baer is more of a traditional AR, nothing fancy, just a proven design and parts.

You can't go wrong with any of the 3. You can expect all of them will shoot, that's why they come with a premium price tag.

 

[savagepc.223]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I shot a GAP AR-10 yesterday and it was the best thing ive ever experienced

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

I broke an extractor once in my GAP-10. I called them and George himself answered the phone. I was clear that I wasn't blaming the rifle as it already had 2K rounds though it and I was willing to pay for another. He not only sent me another free of charge but threw in a spare at my request because I had a match coming up. I've never received attention like that in the firearms industry from anyone.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Les baer .308 vs Gap 10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I broke an extractor once in my GAP-10. I called them and George himself answered the phone. I was clear that I wasn't blaming the rifle as it already had 2K rounds though it and I was willing to pay for another. He not only sent me another free of charge but threw in a spare at my request because I had a match coming up. I've never received attention like that in the firearms industry from anyone. </div></div>

One of the many reasons he has the following that he does....