Lesson-Learned: Primer Storage and Humidity

[rustyinbend]

I stumbled across a few articles about storing primers and how humidity affects them over long durations (aka: "years"). I live in Central Oregon, basically High Desert, and I store my primers on the shelf in my reloading room in my house, which is temp and humidity controlled to about 70° and 35% respectively. Historically I figured that was fine, but what I've read lately, and the amount of money I have invested in my 12,000-ish primers, made me re-think that practice.

So I bought a sealed (waterproof) plastic tub for storage, and a batch of little desiccant packages ... and loaded the tub with my primers and threw in a couple of desiccant packs. Within a few days, my desiccant had turned from "orange" to "dark green" indicating they were saturated. I pulled them out, and threw in two more packs and a few days later, same result.

I'll keep doing this until I get desiccant that doesn't saturate, and then ratchet back to a schedule that works to keep my primer stock nice and dry.

Lesson-Learned: Storing primers in a temperature-and-humidity-controlled environment "on a shelf" ... isn't good enough to keep them dry and reliable for years. I needed a sealed container and desiccant packs to guarantee a "bang" instead of a "click" 5-10 years down the road.

Hope this helps someone else that, like me, thought "on a shelf" was the right place for long-term primer storage.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I just put a dehumidifier in my gun room? Store primers in og packaging inside a steel “safe”

 

[XLR308]

I primarily use 50cal amo cans but ensure the rubber seals in the lids are still servicable and doing thier job, this has worked good for me for decades and have some primers that are 25-30 years old that still go bang.
Where i live now is very arid but have lived along the Texas gulf coast, eastern Oklahoma and central Arkansas and never any issues.
The current humidity level inside as i type this is 25% and even lower in the garage were i currently store mine.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I stumbled across a few articles about storing primers and how humidity affects them over long durations (aka: "years"). I live in Central Oregon, basically High Desert, and I store my primers on the shelf in my reloading room in my house, which is temp and humidity controlled to about 70° and 35% respectively. Historically I figured that was fine, but what I've read lately, and the amount of money I have invested in my 12,000-ish primers, made me re-think that practice.

So I bought a sealed (waterproof) plastic tub for storage, and a batch of little desiccant packages ... and loaded the tub with my primers and threw in a couple of desiccant packs. Within a few days, my desiccant had turned from "orange" to "dark green" indicating they were saturated. I pulled them out, and threw in two more packs and a few days later, same result.

I'll keep doing this until I get desiccant that doesn't saturate, and then ratchet back to a schedule that works to keep my primer stock nice and dry.

Lesson-Learned: Storing primers in a temperature-and-humidity-controlled environment "on a shelf" ... isn't good enough to keep them dry and reliable for years. I needed a sealed container and desiccant packs to guarantee a "bang" instead of a "click" 5-10 years down the road.

Hope this helps someone else that, like me, thought "on a shelf" was the right place for long-term primer storage.

Says who?

 

[rustyinbend]

Says who?

Says "me" ... I'm only speaking for myself, and the lesson I learned about shelf-storing primers in my reloading room. It surprised me that there was so much ambient moisture in my shelf-stored primers. Maybe I was the only one surprised by that.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So you read something random on the internet, never even tested the primers and take it as gospel?

If only there were people out there shooting primers from 20-30-40 years ago stored in similar conditions.............

Also, completley drying out a highly explosive compound is generally not the best course of action if you dont want things like static explosings. But you do you.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Did any of the primers you used prior to the desiccant/ sealed container change fail to fire?

I'm only wondering how much real world effect this actually has. I've seen loaded ammo that sat on the shelf in a hardware store for over 20 years put into action, and there was no malfunction. I would imagine that it would be way more apt to draw in humidity while sitting in a paper box and loaded in a cartridge, but I don't know that.

 

[rustyinbend]

Did any of the primers you used prior to the desiccant/ sealed container change fail to fire?

I'm only wondering how much real world effect this actually has. I've seen loaded ammo that sat on the shelf in a hardware store for over 20 years put into action, and there was no malfunction. I would imagine that it would be way more apt to draw in humidity while sitting in a paper box and loaded in a cartridge, but I don't know that.

Nope ... all good ... oldest primers were 3 years old. This was a "proactive" step, not one borne out of any failures.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So what lesson was learned? Nothing you just made something up with zero data or real world experience to support it.

 

[rustyinbend]

So you read something random on the internet, never even tested the primers and take it as gospel?

If only there were people out there shooting primers from 20-30-40 years ago stored in similar conditions.............

Also, completley drying out a highly explosive compound is generally not the best course of action if you dont want things like static explosings. But you do you.

My test was exclusively proactive, and based upon sealed-vs-open, and desiccant-vs-nothing.
Please disregard, I've obviously annoyed you, and I apologize for that.

 

[babyguppy]

I don't own guns, ammo, or components and I love my dogs .. .. But I have a friend that does. I was told,
Primers from 1950's, stored in a cool; semi dry, place, still go bang. Almost 73 years..

 

[XLR308]

My test was exclusively proactive, and based upon sealed-vs-open, and desiccant-vs-nothing.
Please disregard, I've obviously annoyed you, and I apologize for that.

You havent annoyed me yet, please proceed.

 

[rustyinbend]

You havent annoyed me yet, please proceed.

Thanks ... I don't share often, mostly lurk and learn. But when I share, it's rarely a positive experience. That said, hearing all the reasons why I'm a moron tends to keep me humble ... eh?

 

[XLR308]

Thanks ... I don't share often, mostly lurk and learn. But when I share, it's rarely a positive experience. That said, hearing all the reasons why I'm a moron tends to keep me humble ... eh?

I dont think your a moron, the person that never asks questions and just considers what they think they know is fact is a moron.

 

[StaveyIL]

I read years ago that storing primers sealed up with dessicant packs was a no no. That it would dry out the primer compound over time or something along those lines ? Who knows.

 

[rustyinbend]

I read years ago that storing primers sealed up with dessicant packs was a no no. That it would dry out the primer compound over time or something along those lines ? Who knows.

Interesting ... always heard the opposite, but like you said ... who knows. I guess I'm hoping that even if I'm doing it wrong, two little desiccant packs for 12 bricks of primers won't be over-kill. I'll let you know in 2031.

 

[Stugots]

I use to call on Federal Cartridge here in Anoka, MN and was in there helping out with a project involving the curing of the primers they manufacture. The engineer that I worked with was after a humidity/heat generator they would be installing (Qty 1) in each concrete bunker. When I asked about the warm temp humidity cure, he said it was needed in that stage of the process of manufacture.

When asked about all of the individual concrete bunkers out back behind the main buildings he said that was because they wanted to contain the primers (in smaller qtys) in individual bunkers to contain the blast if they went of accidentally.

I would not be storing large qtys of primers in a sealed steel safe or a closed/sealed ammo can... Just sayin'

 

[rustyinbend]

I use to call on Federal Cartridge here in Anoka, MN and was in there helping out with a project involving the curing of the primers they manufacture. The engineer that I worked with was after a lower humidity heat generator they would be installing (Qty 1) in each concrete bunker. When I asked about the warm temp humidity cure, he said it was needed in that stage of the process of manufacture.

When asked about all of the individual concrete bunkers out back behind the main buildings he said that was because they wanted to contain the primers (in smaller qtys) in individual bunkers to contain the blast if they went of accidentally.

I would not be storing large qtys of primers in a sealed steel safe or a closed/sealed ammo can... Just sayin'

How do you think we should be defining "large quantities"? I'm thinking the vast majority of us aren't storing primers beyond 10-15 1000-primer bricks.

 

[XLR308]

If you read what primer mqnufacturers recommend i would just go with that and not worry to much about it.
Store in original packaging in a cool dry place away from oxidizers and other flammable substances.

 

[XLR308]

How do you think we should be defining "large quantities"? I'm thinking the vast majority of us aren't storing primers beyond 10-15 1000-primer bricks.

I believe the regulation of quantity for primers stored in a residential building is 10,000.
But would have to research that again since its been years since i looked into that info.

 

[rustyinbend]

You were right ... 10,000 ... I'm going to have to give away a couple of bricks.

 

[m1match]

Storing your primers in sealed containers with desiccant certainly is a cautious way to do it, but unless you live in really hot and/or humid environments, IMO isn't really necessary. I live in a moderate climate area and I have primers that are at least 25 years old stored in my garage where summertime temps can get up to the 80s and wintertime temps can get to the 40s and I've never had a primer fail to fire.

 

[XLR308]

You were right ... 10,000 ... I'm going to have to give away a couple of bricks.

View attachment 8122138

Just use the Obamanomics method and lie or make up some bullshit and wonder off topic.

 

[TicTacTex]

View attachment 8122138

 

[rustyinbend]

Just use the Obamanomics method and lie or make up some bullshit and wander off topic.

Did you know that Blow-Fish communicate by pushing their intestines out their anus and flowing water-farts through it?

 

[XLR308]

Did you know that Blow-Fish communicate by pushing their intestines out their anus and flowing water-farts through it?

There you go your on your way to becoming an excellent puplic speaker, now you just need to abandone all morals and your set.

 

[Stugots]

How do you think we should be defining "large quantities"? I'm thinking the vast majority of us aren't storing primers beyond 10-15 1000-primer bricks.

I have no clue what exactly defines 'large Qtys'

 

[whatsupdoc]

I fired a few thousand Winchester Large Rifle and 1K Large Pistol primers that were MFG in 1983-84 and stored indoors in heat sealed mil-spec plastic bags with no desiccant.

I did crono the rifle primers and found the sd and es numbers were similar to to my Federal large rifle primers, and had no issues.

 

[Baron23]

I've stored primers in my garage for well over 20 years...in Maryland (yes, gets hot and humid in the summer) without issue and I don't know of anybody who tries to control the storage environment for their primers in any particular way.

 

[Mudflap621]

I was given 3-4K primers last year that supposedly that had gotten wet in a flood. I’m on my last few hundred of them. I use em for practice ammo and Fire-forming, I’ve only had 1 or 2 not go bang.

 

[rustyinbend]

That's it ... I'm giving my sealed tub to my wife for kitchen use, throwing away my unused desiccant packets, and putting my primers back on the shelf. If I could figure out how to delete this thread ... I would.

 

[ma smith]

I would not be storing large qtys of primers in a sealed steel safe or a closed/sealed ammo can... Just sayin'

IIRC guidelines are: Nothing that will contain pressure, nothing that will shrapnel. As for typical powder humidity, IIRC it is something like 50% from the OEM. Maybe someone has specific info on primers?

 

[ma smith]

"A jug of IMR-8133 was measured to have RH of 52% using a Kestrel Drop. This was the condition of the powder when opened new from the Manufacturer"
Litz Vol.3 ch.7

 

[DIBBS]

Maybe I will do a bang test myself...

These were stored in Wetstern WA for a number of years prior to relocating to the east side of the state.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Don't tell my old primers that. I had to store my reloading stuff in the garage for 15 years. There is no temperature or humidity control. During that time the primers went through temps of -20 to 110. They worked fine when I was able to start reloading again.

 

[XLR308]

Just one other consideration given the humidity content of some powders when new and ammunition manufactured with them that can sit for many decades and still shoot just fine.
I think the bigger problem is what happens to a bullet sitting in the neck of that brass over the years welding its self in place if not laquer sealed like milspec ammo.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Lesson Learned: Debunked

 

[rustyinbend]

Lesson Learned: Debunked

Lesson-Learned (adjusted): Never share on the Hide. Drain the pool, but never try to fill it. LOL

 

[XLR308]

Maybe I will do a bang test myself...

These were stored in Wetstern WA for a number of years prior to relocating to the east side of the state.


View attachment 8122191

My bet is they will still go bang but it would be a shame since you have some nostalgia collectors value there.
I still regret shooting up the old paper hull 12 guage ammo my grandfather gave me.
Wish i would have saved them now, but they shot damn good though.

 

[ma smith]

Lesson-Learned (adjusted): Never share on the Hide. Drain the pool, but never try to fill it. LOL

You had a legitimate issue you were trying to figure out, and you ultimately fixed your process for the better. I think the whole discussion is valuable, for both you and other users. We should all be trying to find a way to frame these discussions in a way that helps people.

 

[Haney]

So you read something random on the internet, never even tested the primers and take it as gospel?

If only there were people out there shooting primers from 20-30-40 years ago stored in similar conditions.............

Also, completley drying out a highly explosive compound is generally not the best course of action if you dont want things like static explosings. But you do you.

So what lesson was learned? Nothing you just made something up with zero data or real world experience to support it.

Bigger question is, why do the Mods allow your dumb ass to ruin every thread .

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Bigger question is, why do the Mods allow your dumb ass to ruin every thread .

Pot meet kettle

 

[XLR308]

Bigger question is, why do the Mods allow your dumb ass to ruin every thread .

Hes a big boy i think he will be fine, if everyone got offended around here everytime someone said something they didnt agree with it would be ghost town or filled with Barfcom pussies.

 

[Haney]

Pot meet kettle

Nah , I call out trolls like you . You just troll . Huge difference .

 

[rustyinbend]

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Lesson-Learned (adjusted): Never share on the Hide. Drain the pool, but never try to fill it. LOL

Wait, this is interesting. I think by dehydrating the primers you may change their burn rate. I don't know it to be true though. Can you do a pressure ladder for a caliber you load for and post the results? Maybe the same pressure ladder with primers left on the shelf for a week?

Screw all of these dickheads, I'd like to know how the humidity of primers effects velocity, ES, and SD of known loads. This could be an awesome thread.

 

[DIBBS]

Food for thought, to add to the discussion.... Or something to make your brain hurt.

Would "dehydrated" primers, once loaded into cartridges, draw moisture from the powder in the loaded ammo until some sort of equilibrum is reached? < if they're not used fairly quickly>

 

[rustyinbend]

Wait, this is interesting. I think by dehydrating the primers you may change their burn rate. I don't know it to be true though. Can you do a pressure ladder for a caliber you load for and post the results? Maybe the same pressure ladder with primers left on the shelf for a week?

Screw all of these dickheads, I'd like to know how the humidity of primers effects velocity, ES, and SD of known loads. This could be an awesome thread.

Interesting ... but ... not sure how I'd do that since all of my thousands of primers have been stored in exactly the same way. I really don't think there'd be any difference over just a week. My sense is that "years in humidity" could change the dynamic, but not "weeks". You do bring an interesting point to this lively debate. That being ... all these throngs and hordes of people that swear their decades-old and maxi-moist primers always go "Bang" ... really aren't coming to that discussion with data about "how" they go "Bang". Do those old primers deliver the same SD ES Velocity and Accuracy as the new and dry ones. Are they only good for plinking, but not for precision ELR work? I don't know. Maybe someone reading this that has both old-soggy and new-dry primers can do a quick side-by-side test for us that focuses on ballistics and accuracy at distance.

I'm not doing anymore personal observations or shared tests though ... my fragile ego can't handle the criticism.

 

[hkguns]

Invest in some of these..........I have 120mm mortar cans which appear to be larger. They are sealed and ammo and primers will last for long time. You can even use them as sword quench tanks if you decide to take up forging.

Surplus Mortar Ammo Cans

 

[rustyinbend]

Invest in some of these..........I have 120mm mortar cans which appear to be larger. They are sealed and ammo and primers will last for long time. You can even use them as sword quench tanks if you decide to take up forging.

Surplus Mortar Ammo Cans

Nice, but a bit expensive ... the waterproof sealed plastic tub I got that stores 12-bricks easily, was only $15. These are the ammo cans I use for loose ammo stored in my tightly sealed ammo safe. The mortar can cost-benefit-ratio probably doesn't work for me.