Let me tell ya about Shoot Straight/Florida...Beware, long rant...

[Wannashootit]

Been on these forums for many years...first time ragging in the Bear Pit- but I'm pissed, and I know there's a lot of current and former US military that might care about who to support with their business- or not.

My son's a USAF pilot currently stationed in the midwest, just came home to visit in FL for a couple of weeks on leave.
In addition to all his other modern rifles, he's building a nice milsurp collection. We always do some shooting and fishing when he gets back home, and he had an eye for a WWII Mosin PU sniper and bought a nice one from an online dealer last week before leaving- and had it shipped to a local Shoot Straight here as he'd called them in advance to confirm they accepted transfers.

Picked him up at the airport last night, and this afternoon we drove down to pick up his rifle. Gave them his military ID and his new temporary DL as he just bought a home there and surrendered his FL DL- the temp DL is paper- but issued by the state, with photo, and is 100% legal, government-issued ID.

"Nope, sorry- can't do the transfer". We can't accept this temporary driver's license".

Now, I just surrendered my 07 FFL last month after 8 years due to moving and not having a new premises yet. Didn't do many transfers as a smith, but I know the rules of the game.

I said "What's the problem? His military ID is perfectly acceptable."
"We can't photocopy his military ID, and we can't accept his temporary DL"

Now, I'm trying to keep a cool head, which wasn't getting any easier. But knowing that an FFL can refuse to do a transfer for ANY reason- including if he doesn't like your fucking haircut- I tried to be diplomatic.

"His military ID is all he needs- and ATF does not require that you (illegally) make a copy. His DL is state issued, and a legal photo ID- even though he ONLY needs his military ID for compliance. These are YOUR requirements- and you can make any fucking rules you want- but you should have disclosed to him that your requirements for doing a transfer, exceed those which are legally required".

The dickhead manager pulled out a 4473 and gave me some bullshit about the forms changing (which they just did), but I pointed to the ID requirements and asked him "What's changed? Says in black and white that military ID is acceptable!" At which point he starts hemming and hawing with bullshit...

What's ironic is that he'd gone with some buddies to a NASCAR race in a neighboring state before flying home, stopped in a Bass Pro Shops and they happened to have milsurps on the rack (go figure..) and bought a nice Swedish Mauser using the same ID's that Shoot Straight refused to accept.

Figured I wasn't getting anywhere with him, and left to cool off. After the 20 minute drive home to cool down, I called back.
"Listen, I know you guys can do whatever the fuck you want, so screaming and yelling isn't going to be productive. This is how you treat those who serve our country? Are you kidding me? Can I speak with ownership?"

"Nope. It's our policy, and they won't make an exception".

So I call another FFL closer to me, less than 10 miles from Shoot Straight. Explained the sitch. "Yeah, no problem. I'll accept that ID".
Called Shoot Straight back. "It'll be $50 PLUS the shipping costs to send it to the other FFL".

No "Sorry we didn't disclose", No "Sorry about the inconvenience- we'll waive our $50 fee but he'll need to pay just the actual shipping costs".

FUCK SHOOT STRAIGHT- ALL THEIR FLORIDA LOCATIONS. I used to frequent their Tampa range on occasion- I won't set foot in their stores forevermore if this is how they treat our military.

Rant over. Act accordingly.

 

[Ronws]

Totally understand and God's speed to you and your son.

And yeah, if I was in Florida, I would walk in there just to say I wouldn't buy a glass of water from them if I was on fire because are putrid sacks of feces. Tell that to the ownership.

 

[sgtsmmiii]

It's amazing how many FFL's don't understand the requirements, and can't burden themselves to read the instructions on pages 4,5, and 6.

 

[Milf Dots]

The OP's experience may become more and more common in the future because too many FFLs take it upon themselves to have 'policies' that exceed the legal requirements, and because employees don't know what smart customer service is all about.

 

[918v]

I’ve been abused at a gun store. It’s doubly hurtful because of the source. We’re supposed to be on the same side.

 

[Milf Dots]

I’ve been abused at a gun store. It’s doubly hurtful because of the source. We’re supposed to be on the same side.

What kind of abuse are we talking about- was she hot?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I’ve been abused at a gun store. It’s doubly hurtful because of the source. We’re supposed to be on the same side.

I'm always able to walk out without a limp...... but my wallet comes out looking like Stormy Daniels' credibility on the stand.

 

[fdkay]

How'd he get a military ID if he's in the air force?

 

[Mike Casselton]

I stopped buying stuff from them a long time ago.
Never liked the copying of the ID thing.
Shooter's World in Tampa wants to copy your DL for ammo purchases.

They can kiss my sweaty ass crack. Not on the left, not on the right. Straight down the middle.

 

[Schütze]

Made one purchase from them about 25 years ago at their gun show table, either my c75b or g17…forgot. But they were a pain in the ass then. Never went back.

I use Empire Guns and Pawn since then for my transfers. They are in Lutz on SR54 now, never had any issues, very straightforward guy’s.

 

[Bullfrog08]

I use private FFL....never any issues. Going to any big store is a waste of time. If I could get off Walmarts tit I would. Not any options.

Despite shit service.....I will not treat any clients the way Im treated. I refuse to partcipate in the "dont give a fuck" world.

 

[Racer88]

Given the current administration's penchant ("zero tolerance") for shutting down FFLs for even a typo in their paperwork, I can understand dealers' paranoia.

 

[Ronws]

Given the current administration's penchant ("zero tolerance") for shutting down FFLs for even a typo in their paperwork, I can understand dealers' paranoia.

It sounds like the people at the store are arrogant, rather than fearful. Yes, they would be careful with paperwork but if, according to the 4473, military ID is acceptable and they are not accepting, they are in violation. I.E., they are being dicks about it, which is unnecessary.

Sounds like they stay in business mainly with new customers who buy once and never again. Which is stupid because it is repeat customers that keep a place in business.

 

[akmike47]

Wait…. so he isn’t a current resident of Florida, has an out of state license, and owns a home in the Midwest but is buying firearms in Florida?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Given the current administration's penchant ("zero tolerance") for shutting down FFLs for even a typo in their paperwork, I can understand dealers' paranoia.

It's not paranoia.
It's a simple act of the owner setting rules beyond what the Eh Tee Eff requires.
They have your address and contact info on the 4473. They verify you via your State/Gov't issued ID.

Making unnecessary (someone said illegal) copies is part of the bullshit.



Unfortunately, for the OP, the employees have zero latitude with the in-house procedures.

Also, if you've ever been in one of his many stores, you would see that he has the cream of the crop working for him.


I do my business elsewhere.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Wait…. so he isn’t a current resident of Florida, has an out of state license, and owns a home in the Midwest but is buying firearms in Florida?

If your current address doesn't match your DL, they, nor any other (Florida) dealer will sell you a firearm.
And yeah, if you don't have a FL DL, you'll need a copy of your orders assigning you to Florida, along with your valid Mil ID.

 

[IronSkillet]

Could this have been an exercise in futility anyways considering Florida has a waiting period, with an unusual way of counting business days only. Not excusing the ffl for not fully disclosing store policies when the customer telephoned them.

 

[XLR308]

Now If he were a known sexual devient, crack head with a dishonorable discharge and would have just lied on the 4473 he wouldn't have had any issues.

 

[jr81452]

I love shoot straight. It's the best place around to go finger bang a wide selection of firearms, decide what you like, then call the LGSs to find out who has it in stock so you can buy it. It's also great comedy to listen to their staff about what arms to buy. Would never give that segway riding douche a dime though.

 

[akmike47]

If your current address doesn't match your DL, they, nor any other (Florida) dealer will sell you a firearm.
And yeah, if you don't have a FL DL, you'll need a copy of your orders assigning you to Florida, along with your valid Mil ID.

thats what I was thinking, but it reads a little confusing. Sounds like there’s more to the story to me honestly, usually is. I haven't worked at an FFL in years, but the place I ran got a 100% when they were trying real hard to find something as they almost lost their ffl before I came in.. Also know nothing about FL laws to be clear.

Ive seen a lot of iffy shit visiting random FFLs and a lot of them don’t last.

 

[Milf Dots]

Now If he were a known sexual devient, crack head with a dishonorable discharge and would have just lied on the 4473 he wouldn't have had any issues.

Hunter Biden was in the military?

 

[XLR308]

Hunter Biden was in the military?

Don't think he was active, Naval Reserve and discharged after failing drug test.

 

[_Windrider_]

Shoot straight is dogshit. I live in Orlando and refuse to ever go inside those places again.

 

[higginsworksforme]

More like ShootGay 'nomsayin?

 

[Racer88]

Sounds like they stay in business mainly with new customers who buy once and never again. Which is stupid because it is repeat customers that keep a place in business.

I've purchased many firearms there. Nothing but totally professional in my experience.

 

[Racer88]

It's a simple act of the owner setting rules beyond what the Eh Tee Eff requires.
They have your address and contact info on the 4473. They verify you via your State/Gov't issued ID.

The owner of a private business is certainly free to set ANY rules he wants beyond the legal requirements. Don't like it, don't shop there. Pretty simple. I am a true advocate of a FREE market.

I believe the addresses have to match up (and be IN-state).

 

[lash]

I stopped buying stuff from them a long time ago.
Never liked the copying of the ID thing.
Shooter's World in Tampa wants to copy your DL for ammo purchases.

They can kiss my sweaty ass crack. Not on the left, not on the right. Straight down the middle.

I bought one revolver, a S&W 642, there years ago, because they buy in bulk and occasionally have big sales. Won’t go back again to purchase now that there a couple good solid LGS nearby that don’t treat you like a number.

Funny sorta related story. 10+ years ago, a friend in Apopka wanted me to join him to shoot pistols at their indoor gun range, so I did. Of course, they have a rate of fire rule and there’s no drawing or rapid fire allowed. Completely understandable considering the average Joe Q. Public idiot customers they usually get.

At the time I was competing in IDPA and Steel Challenge, so found it quite boring after a while, though I tempered that with challenges like best ten shot group at 25 yards and similar.

Anyway, at the end of our session, as my buddy was packing up, I loaded 15 9mm in a mag and told him, “stand back and watch this.” Ran a target out to 25y and proceeded to rapid fire the whole mag into the bull. Finished by dropping the mag, placing the gun down and raising my hands as if in competition. Turned around and there at the glass was what looked like a gunny glaring at me.

I grinned held up my hands as if to say, “I’m done.” Packed up and left. As we exited, he was giving me the eye, but never said a word. I’m not sure if I’m welcome back there, but don’t care too much.

I’m pretty sure that he saw my control and the group and let it pass. I’ll give him that. Yes, it was probably reckless and inappropriate for me to do, but I knew what I was doing and knew the potential consequences.

We laughed and had a beer with lunch afterwards. Ah, good memories.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I've purchased many firearms there. Nothing but totally professional in my experience.

So far, I haven't read anything in this thread accusing the employees of being unprofessional.

 

[Mike Casselton]

The owner of a private business is certainly free to set ANY rules he wants beyond the legal requirements. Don't like it, don't shop there. Pretty simple. I am a true advocate of a FREE market.

I believe the addresses have to match up (and be IN-state).

Of course they are. That is, unless you don't want to bake and decorate a cake that goes against your beliefs...

I've already stated I no longer shop there. That's also FREE market, from a customer's perspective.


Anyway, the address thing was addressed up there^^^^^.
By me.

 

[Racer88]

So far, I haven't read anything in this thread accusing the employees of being unprofessional.

I'll rephrase then.... I've bought many guns (including one transfer) there and have had nothing but excellent customer service. Across the board over many years.

And I've walked out of other gun shops here locally who did not offer excellent customer service. At one shop, I asked to see a SCAR-16S when it was the new thing. With a huff, and eyeballing me, he said to me, "At $2700, they're not flying off the shelves," and then literally turned his back on me. He eyeballed me but not closely enough to notice my watch was worth a few of those rifles. He didn't offer to show me the rifle. Didn't say another word to me. And so I walked and bought the rifle elsewhere.

 

[Racer88]

I've already stated I no longer shop there. That's also FREE market, from a customer's perspective.

Exactly. And I stipulated that... Free Market means don't shop there if you don't like it. I exercise that concept quite regularly when I don't agree with or like the level of service from a business. Free Market is a beautiful thing.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Sometimes, the level of service isn't the issue.
Store policies and procedures can make or break a business.

I've bought over a dozen firearms from them.
I woke up one day realizing I didn't like their shit with copying my DL and CWP.
That was it for me. It's not like they don't already have the info in their files from before, but that was it.

Shooter's World has never gotten any of my money due to their requirement to copy my DL for ammo purchases.


Me not going into their stores won't make a damn bit of difference to them overall.

But, it makes a difference for me.

 

[Mike Casselton]

BTW,
we're in agreement, but you seem to want to create some kind of argument with me.
I have no idea why.

I'm gonna go back to painting my laundry room now.

 

[Jscb1b]

BTW,
we're in agreement, but you seem to want to create some kind of argument with me.
I have no idea why.

I'm gonna go back to painting my laundry room now.

Are you trying to put a load in the washer?

 

[Mike Casselton]

No, she's at work

 

[Racer88]

BTW,
we're in agreement, but you seem to want to create some kind of argument with me.
I have no idea why.

I'm gonna go back to painting my laundry room now.

Nope. No argument. We do agree on the free market. My experience at SS has always been good. So far!

 

[akmike47]

Sometimes, the level of service isn't the issue.
Store policies and procedures can make or break a business.

I've bought over a dozen firearms from them.
I woke up one day realizing I didn't like their shit with copying my DL and CWP.
That was it for me. It's not like they don't already have the info in their files from before, but that was it.

Shooter's World has never gotten any of my money due to their requirement to copy my DL for ammo purchases.


Me not going into their stores won't make a damn bit of difference to them overall.

But, it makes a difference for me.

We are told do not make a copy of DL here. Carry permit they do want attached to the 4473 so they can compare it to the 4473 when auditing(don’t agree with it, it has the DL info they aren’t supposed to copy on it). You’re also supposed to run the carry permit to make sure it’s valid(there’s a webpage just for that) and I’ve rarely ever seen anyone here use it.


Sounds to me like OP doesn’t really understand the rules.

 

[Wannashootit]

Could this have been an exercise in futility anyways considering Florida has a waiting period, with an unusual way of counting business days only. Not excusing the ffl for not fully disclosing store policies when the customer telephoned them.

Appreciate the replies, gentlemen.

The FL waiting period is from date of PURCHASE. Shipping time was way more than 3 days anyway- but I had told my son to bring his online receipt just in case.

 

[Wannashootit]

How'd he get a military ID if he's in the air force?

Touche...
Read this one to him just now and he just grinned and shook his head...

 

[Wannashootit]

So far, I haven't read anything in this thread accusing the employees of being unprofessional.

Exactly. They were- the manager was still a dickhead- but a polite dickhead.
Pulling out the 4473 and pointing to the identification line as though that had anything to do with it. Just fucking fess up and say these are our requirements, like it or not, and yes- they're not required by BATFE or FDLE.

If they'd have at least waived their bullshit $50 "processing fee" I'd have felt at least a little better. We never even saw the box from the dealer. All they had to do was stick a fucking UPS label on it, done.

Fuck them.

 

[Ronws]

I've purchased many firearms there. Nothing but totally professional in my experience.

Good to know. I have not been. And sometimes, people have sour grapes when others don't.

 

[W54/XM-388]

All they had to do was stick a fucking UPS label on it, done.

Actually no.

They have to get and verify a copy of the FFL paperwork for the receiving FFL and then log the disposition of it in their bound book and also in any other recordkeeping they do.

 

[akmike47]

Actually no.

They have to get and verify a copy of the FFL paperwork for the receiving FFL and then log the disposition of it in their bound book and also in any other recordkeeping they do.

I think I’m seeing why OP gave up his FFL and I’m not making a joke.

 

[Haney]

All they had to do was stick a fucking UPS label on it, done.

Fuck them.

I think they won, and they got to say...fuck him . I have a feeling I know why you lost .

 

[Wannashootit]

Actually no.

They have to get and verify a copy of the FFL paperwork for the receiving FFL and then log the disposition of it in their bound book and also in any other recordkeeping they do.

They know the gun shop where it was sent- less than 10 miles away. Owner told me several employees that left Shooters World work for him.
And FYI, it takes five minutes to log a rifle in and out of a bound book- probably less with the electronic recordkeeping they use.
But hey, if you think that's worth $50- whatever.

 

[Wannashootit]

I think they won, and they got to say...fuck him . I have a feeling I know why you lost .

OK.
I'll bite. I'd love to hear your reasoning/logic

 

[akmike47]

They know the gun shop where it was sent- less than 10 miles away. Owner told me several employees that left Shooters World work for him.
And FYI, it takes five minutes to log a rifle in and out of a bound book- probably less with the electronic recordkeeping they use.
But hey, if you think that's worth $50- whatever.

$50 is overkill but they aren’t douches for not wanting to work for free it’s a business.

 

[Ronws]

Well, I have been blessed. The shops I have dealt with have been courteous and polite, no "we won't do that" attitude, at all.

And a few of the places, I bought from them and they waive the transfer fee. Shoot Smart in Grand Prairie, Texas. Past and Blast in Whitesboro.

I have an LTC, which required a significant background check. I show that and they don't have to run my license. I fill out the 4473. Two people look at it to make sure we have everything filled out.

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Been on these forums for many years...first time ragging in the Bear Pit- but I'm pissed, and I know there's a lot of current and former US military that might care about who to support with their business- or not.

My son's a USAF pilot currently stationed in the midwest, just came home to visit in FL for a couple of weeks on leave.
In addition to all his other modern rifles, he's building a nice milsurp collection. We always do some shooting and fishing when he gets back home, and he had an eye for a WWII Mosin PU sniper and bought a nice one from an online dealer last week before leaving- and had it shipped to a local Shoot Straight here as he'd called them in advance to confirm they accepted transfers.

Picked him up at the airport last night, and this afternoon we drove down to pick up his rifle. Gave them his military ID and his new temporary DL as he just bought a home there and surrendered his FL DL- the temp DL is paper- but issued by the state, with photo, and is 100% legal, government-issued ID.

"Nope, sorry- can't do the transfer". We can't accept this temporary driver's license".

Now, I just surrendered my 07 FFL last month after 8 years due to moving and not having a new premises yet. Didn't do many transfers as a smith, but I know the rules of the game.

I said "What's the problem? His military ID is perfectly acceptable."
"We can't photocopy his military ID, and we can't accept his temporary DL"

Now, I'm trying to keep a cool head, which wasn't getting any easier. But knowing that an FFL can refuse to do a transfer for ANY reason- including if he doesn't like your fucking haircut- I tried to be diplomatic.

"His military ID is all he needs- and ATF does not require that you (illegally) make a copy. His DL is state issued, and a legal photo ID- even though he ONLY needs his military ID for compliance. These are YOUR requirements- and you can make any fucking rules you want- but you should have disclosed to him that your requirements for doing a transfer, exceed those which are legally required".

The dickhead manager pulled out a 4473 and gave me some bullshit about the forms changing (which they just did), but I pointed to the ID requirements and asked him "What's changed? Says in black and white that military ID is acceptable!" At which point he starts hemming and hawing with bullshit...

What's ironic is that he'd gone with some buddies to a NASCAR race in a neighboring state before flying home, stopped in a Bass Pro Shops and they happened to have milsurps on the rack (go figure..) and bought a nice Swedish Mauser using the same ID's that Shoot Straight refused to accept.

Figured I wasn't getting anywhere with him, and left to cool off. After the 20 minute drive home to cool down, I called back.
"Listen, I know you guys can do whatever the fuck you want, so screaming and yelling isn't going to be productive. This is how you treat those who serve our country? Are you kidding me? Can I speak with ownership?"

"Nope. It's our policy, and they won't make an exception".

So I call another FFL closer to me, less than 10 miles from Shoot Straight. Explained the sitch. "Yeah, no problem. I'll accept that ID".
Called Shoot Straight back. "It'll be $50 PLUS the shipping costs to send it to the other FFL".

No "Sorry we didn't disclose", No "Sorry about the inconvenience- we'll waive our $50 fee but he'll need to pay just the actual shipping costs".

FUCK SHOOT STRAIGHT- ALL THEIR FLORIDA LOCATIONS. I used to frequent their Tampa range on occasion- I won't set foot in their stores forevermore if this is how they treat our military.

Rant over. Act accordingly.

I refused to step foot into any of their Florida stores/ranges years ago, but for different reasons which I won't disclose on here. Suffice it to say, none of my coworkers, family or friends will go in there either after what they did. I'm sorry this happened to you, but you can take some comfort in that they lost about 50 regular customers from what they did to me, when all they had to do was apologize.

 

[EddieNFL]

How'd he get a military ID if he's in the air force?

In my day we traded crayons for IDs. If it was a smart marine/solider, you had to toss in a few magic beans. You could get one from a swabbie using pogie bait or pictures of a gay cousin.