Rifle Scopes Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

[libertyman777]

I'm looking for a hunting/tactical scope. Primary use will be deer and hog hunting here in the Southeastern US.

I prefer capped turrets with some type of ballistic reticle or mildots. My son has a Vortex Viper 2-7x32 and it's a good performer on 2x for the money but I'd like something that will take me right up to "last shooting light". It's a matter of minutes I know, but 5-6 minutes can make all the difference in the world.

We have one greenfield that's 250 yards, everything else on the property is 100 yards or less. I'd like to be able to positively identify a shooter at dusk. I know it must be a balance of magnification and exit pupil coupled with good glass.

I'd like to know what your experiences have been, what you recommend, what you don't, etc.

I also like thoughts on whether a fixed beats a low power variable.

Of course, price is the limiting factor. $400-$800 and I'd be most comfortable in the middle.

All input is welcome.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Natep]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Sounds like you need at least a 30mm maintube and at that price, a fixed power. Perhaps a SS fixed 10 power HD?

 

[longshooter]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

4x30, any decent glass.

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I have a Nikon Buckmaster and it holds its own with the big boys in the low light department. They can be found for around $300 and are worth every penny. Do a google on "Nikon scopes" and look at the specs. They have crosshairs, BDC and maybe a few mil dot models (go to midwayusa.com and put "nikon mil" in the search bar for mildot Nikons.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

How about the Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-10x56 scope if you can find it used? That massive objective combined with decent glass and great baffling should be a real light vacuum.

It comes with covered turrets plus mildot option along with illuminated reticle which you will need for low light hunting. Tough to find any other good illuminated scope for less that the Trijicon which is an awesome value.

 

[HOGWILD]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

larger objective does nothing to make scopes brighter, only quality glass will allow this to happen, try a Swarovski with Schott Glass and you will be surprised how bright a 1 inch tube is compared to a 30 mm. My 30 mm Leupold got smoked by my 1 inch Swarovski by about 15 to 18 minutes of more light to get a decent shot off! My objectives were only 2 mm difference and the Swarovski proved to me that it was superior by far! I have the Z5 5-25x52 and it's a great hunting optic and it came with the Ballistic Turret that is kinda different!

 

[bward]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGWILD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">larger objective does nothing to make scopes brighter, only quality glass will allow this to happen, try a Swarovski with Schott Glass and you will be surprised how bright a 1 inch tube is compared to a 30 mm. My 30 mm Leupold got smoked by my 1 inch Swarovski by about 15 to 18 minutes of more light to get a decent shot off!</div></div>

Tube diameter will not help with light gathering, a larger objective will however.

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I shot this guy right at dusk at a little over 100yds and had no problems. I glassed a few others out to 250yds later and had no problems seeing them--we ended up using night vision to get one, but I think we could have done it with the Accupoint without too much trouble.

I think the Trijicon Accupoint 3-9 and 2.5-10 are some of the best scopes in your price range given what your looking to do. I currently use the 3-9X40 green mil-dot. I like the mil-dot reticle for holdovers, as the turrets are 1/4" for some reason.

They can be had on Ebay for $600-700.

 

[Natep]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Isnt the effect of an objectives light gathering performance regulated by the diameter of the main tube?

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Nate, The tube diameter has no affect on light transmission.

Hogwild, The objective size has alot to do with light transmission, though the glass and its coating also plays a role.

See here...

 

[bward]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Exit pupil will be the main determinant in low light performance (along with glass quality). Exit pupil can be calculated as objective diameter/magnification. So a scope with the same objective lens diameter at the same power with the same glass will yield the same image quality in a 1" tube as in a 30" tube scope.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

You may or may not know this, but Scott from Vortex said that they are releasing a version of the PST's with capped turrets and ballistic reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ask and you shall receive. We are also coming out with a non-illuminated, capped turret version of the PST's.They will have a hash mark style bdc reticle. They will be called the HS series and are in our new catalog. We will have some at SHOT.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing about the Viper HS models that are coming, there will also be a Long Range Hunting model that features a PST style exposed elevation knob in 1/2MOA clicks and 24MOA per turn in 4-16x44 and 4-16x50 configurations.

-Sam </div></div>

My guess is these are going to be some awesome hunting scopes.

John

 

[bowslngr]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Take a look at the Burris Euro Diamond in 2.5-10x50. SWFA is now offering them at a killer closeout price. Burris does a great job with engineering for low light performance. Their Euro Diamond line offers their best quality glass and with the 50mm objective this one will really shine. Throw in the lighted retical and I don't think you can beat this one.

SWFA Deal

 

[gglass]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

It may not be the tactical "vogue" answer, but you should really look at the Nikko Sterling NightEater line of scopes.

My son has a NightEater on his R700 270 and I have one on my .44 Mag deer rifle, and you can really see a difference in low light situations. When other scopes dim out completely, you can still see through the NightEater. I don't know what voodoo magic they use on this line of scopes, but it does work. The best part is, a NightEater won't force you to sell a kidney to get low-light performance.

From Nikko Sterling's web site:

"Named the NIGHTEATER™ because it was developed for the professional Kangaroo shooters in Australia who hunt exclusively at night, head-shooting kangaroos at 200-300m to harvest the meat and skins."

http://www.nikkostirling.com/Content/PlatinumNighteater/Nighteater.htm

http://swfa.com/Nikko-Stirling-Nighteater-Riflescopes-C1896.aspx

 

[chawk]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Trijicon Accupoint. I have a 3-9x40 with green mildot reticle I use for fox hunting at night and it is great for the task.

 

[KE5MUJ]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

Trijicon Accupoint was very good IMO, also like my current Bushnell elite 4200.

I was always taught that bigger tube diameter was designed to have more internal travel (eleavation and windage), and that objective diameter gathered more light the bigger it was.

 

[blklabs]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I would say 2.5-10x56 Trijicon is what you are seeking. For your price it will be hard to beat in the low-light arena. Good glass for the money and since you are wanting capped turrets you should be happy with it.

 

[HOGWILD]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

My bad!! but it does need to be of a significant difference i feel to make that difference and mine was only 2mm so no big help! optics do not gather light they transmit light! Same general idea just bad translation! kinda like my bad choice of words but not as bad!

 

[tatemarb]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I recommend you look into IOR's hunting line and Meopta's Meostar line (SWFA.com). Also check out the "used" section at eurooptics.com for Swarovski and Zeiss. These feature outstanding German glass (Schott Glasswerk in all I believe) with top ot the line coatings. They are available in the upper end of the price range you are looking at. They all have the 30mm tubes and larger objectives available (though the 30mm tube is not necessary). The fixed powers are slightly brighter because there are a couple fewer lenses inside so there is less transmission loss. The majority of the recommendations so far in the post have been Japanese glass. The German sourced glass yields a wider field of view in most cases and except in the cases of very high end scopes (March) I think the German glass is superior.

Just my 2c

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

So it's a matter of exit pupil (with respect to magnification) coupled with glass quality for the actual light transmission?

Is this why many fixed power scopes work so well?

 

[Geno C.]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I was just down in Alabama hunting the last 4 days. I was using my Nightforce 1-4x24 on my 358win. I could shoot just as late as anyone out there. Shooting in the woods or over small greenfields this is all the scope I needed and it is very fast when they are up close and personal.

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

You're right on the money liberty. However, I like a variable scope for hunting, because it's nice to increase magnification when you can and dial it back when the light gets low...

 

[264win]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

If at all possible go spend some time at your local sporting goods store as its getting dark and look thru some diiferent optics. What i have found to work best is a low power scope of good quality. Also for me the main tube size seems to be more important than the obj size.

 

[ccoker]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

agree 1000% on the Accupoint 3-9x40 mildot / green dot recommendation

you have to spend a LOT more to get a better hunting scope
I have used one for several years hunting hogs and deer at last possible light on deer and well into the night on hogs with either a full moon or some sort of illumination..

My son absconded with mine for his 243 after comparing it against his Burris FF2 3-9x40 LRS, his response was "oh wow!"

He used it this past weekend to take a deer at 175 yards that was invisible to the naked eye

I am running a S&B Flashdot #9 1.5-6x42 on my 6.8 right now and yes, it's better and I like the lower power range but it's in all honesty not THAT much better glass, sharper, higher resolution, yes.. but both scopes will take deer at 250 yards WELL past legal hunting time.

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I appreciate the help gentlemen.

Merry Christmas!!

Paul

 

[lovetsx]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I got a Nikon buckmaster on e-bay for $180 with the BDC. great low light pass through for cheap. Better than any CHEAP scope I have had

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Let's talk glass, low light performance needed.

I have always wanted to try out a Trijicon scope, as I have heard great things about them...

What I use is a Burris Signature 1.5-6x40 E-dot when hunting deep woods, where it is dark long before the darkness settles in the corn/bean fields. At times I have found it may be too dark to pick up the crosshairs but you can still pick up the deer in the scope and dim the E-dot so it is not over powering the image. After using this on my muzzleloader for the last 8 seasons I find that I rarely use less than 2x when it is dark. 6x is still enough for 250-300 yard shots on deer sized game, not sure on hogs through...

So I would recommend a 2-8 or 2.5-10 with a obj size of at least 40mm with a illuminated reticle or dot. Thick reticles help too.