Advanced Marksmanship Level Scope, Canted Reticle

[DaveMarine1]

I have been going back and forth with this issue and I have read the info and watched the SH video's on rifle fit and also "level scope, level rifle" or "canted rifle, level scope". I just cant wrap my mind around what I am seeing. I have leveled my XLR chassis to the world, and leveled my scope to the chassis. So end result is a level scope and a level rifle.
I get behind the rifle and I naturally cant the rifle to the right when I am in the prone. This is a constant.
What I dont like is that my natural hold when prone, direct behind rifle, caused the rifle to be off level because of the natural cant and therefore the scope is not level.

The chassis is an Envy so it does have a built in bubble level on stock so if I use that as a reference, I need to rotate the rifle to the left. Once level, the reticle has rotated left slightly (top of reticle tapers off to the left, bottom to the right).
With the rifle in its natural hold (with natural RH cant) the reticle is straight up and down which is very pleasing to the eyes vs. having a level scope and level chassis and the reticle rotated left.

I have adj butt plate but cannot seem to rectify this. Do I need to keep the rifle in its natural hold and then level the scope to the fall of gravity? So now I would have a level scope, canted rifle. From my research, this is more desirable as the error at 1000yds is far less.

It just doesnt make sense to me that with a level scope and level rifle, when looking through the scope the reticle is canted.

When the weather was decent I calibrated my MV using Kestrel and had a JC Steel coyote out at 886 yards. After MV calibration and with a 9-12mph 90 degree wind, I was able to make my adjustments for wind and make impacts very consistantly and had no elevation issues. But maybe this point is moot. I dont know.

I hope this all makes sense. Any insight on this so I can look at a level scope reticle when I am behind and on the rifle? Thank you.

 

[Fig]

That shouldn't be. I think I read somewhere that the average person can see a 3 deg cant, which is probably almost within the lines of a bubble level. If everything is level my guess is that you're not squared up behind the rifle, and it's your head that's canted.

 

[Sheldon N]

It just doesnt make sense to me that with a level scope and level rifle, when looking through the scope the reticle is canted.

The reticle IS canted, or LOOKS canted? What do you get when you point it at a plumb line?

Doesn't matter what the outside body of the scope does, the two things that matter are the reticle being level (for hold overs) and the tracking being level/vertical (for dialing). Ideally these should be the same unless there's a defect in your scope and the reticle is canted.

With my MPA I leveled the scope bubble level and chassis bubble level to a plumb line, then adjusted the butt pad angle so it suited my shoulder pocket. That would be my first suggestion for you. Second choice would be set the chassis up so it's comfortable, ignore the bubble on the chassis, and put a bubble on the scope tube that's set so the reticle is level when you hit your NPA.

 

[DaveMarine1]

The reticle IS canted, or LOOKS canted? What do you get when you point it at a plumb line?

Doesn't matter what the outside body of the scope does, the two things that matter are the reticle being level (for hold overs) and the tracking being level/vertical (for dialing). Ideally these should be the same unless there's a defect in your scope and the reticle is canted.

With my MPA I leveled the scope bubble level and chassis bubble level to a plumb line, then adjusted the butt pad angle so it suited my shoulder pocket. That would be my first suggestion for you. Second choice would be set the chassis up so it's comfortable, ignore the bubble on the chassis, and put a bubble on the scope tube that's set so the reticle is level when you hit your NPA.

The reticle looks canted. By the sounds of it, I should set the chassis so it is comfortable and then level the scope to the plumb line. That way my natural point of aim i both comfortable and level

 

[snorkygunner]

I've gotten in the habit of leveling the rifle, mounting the rings, then leveling the reticle off of a plumb line, that way there's no question about it. I used to level the scope itself, but I decided to see if level scope = level reticle when I was mounting a new scope one day, so I went back and forth between leveling the reticle and leveling the scope to the rail. When I compared the two, there was a noticeable difference. Granted, not all scopes are built to the same level of quality and precision, so you may not see this with your setup.

 

[_Windrider_]

The reticle looks canted. By the sounds of it, I should set the chassis so it is comfortable and then level the scope to the plumb line. That way my natural point of aim i both comfortable and level

this. Its best done with 2 people. get in prone. get comfortable behind rifle. have scope in mount with bolts lose enough to move. have friend move scope until reticle is plumb. torque scope rings. done.

 

[Nik H]

The reticle looks canted. By the sounds of it, I should set the chassis so it is comfortable and then level the scope to the plumb line. That way my natural point of aim i both comfortable and level

This is exactly what you should do. I have exactly the same issue. I am LH so the reticle always looks canted to the right but when I look at the plumb line (actually a 5' level...plumb lines never work in the wind), it is always level. Drove me batty until someone here, maybe it was @Sheldon N now that I think about it, told me about calibrating to a plumb line. I also have a level that attaches to the scope. I adjust it so it shows level when I am in position and have verified it is true to the plumb line.

Now when I shoot, I don't fret that it "looks" canted. I know it is true with the fall of gravity

 

[DaveMarine1]

Great info and insight. It is clear what needs to be done. Thank you all!

 

[hereinaz]

I am experimenting with a canted buttpad, So, when I put the rifle in my shoulderpocket it can be angled, but the rifle is not. I also have a bubble level.

Yes, the reticle looks canted, even when I level my scope to the bubble, which was leveled off a plumbline. I put the bubble level on my scope, so if I move the scope, I can always mount it and know it is level. I have started checking level everyonce in a while, just to confirm the level has not moved.

 

[LawnMM]

When I'm not sure if it is canted or looks that way I'll level it out on a bag, then back up behind it and look to see if the horizontal stadia are bisecting the windage and parallax knobs. Likewise is the vertical part of the reticle dropping straight through the center of the action and stock.