Hunting & Fishing linThe .45-70...questions about her...

10thMTN155

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I have been looking for a good short to mid range gun here lately to deer hunt and hog hunt with, and the .45-70 just seems to fit my needs. I probably won't be shooting over about 200 yards when I will be using it, so a low range recoil resistant optic would work just fine.
I am looking at the Marlin 1895 GBL, because it has the full length mag tube, which holds 6 rounds I believe, maybe 5, I will look again. It also has the short 18 inch barrel which is nice.
Please weigh in with any advice, opinions or experiences you have had hunting and shooting with this caliber, and what rounds you have been feeding your particular gun.
Thanks again.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...


It is a pretty popular round here in Alaska. I have put about 1K rounds through a Marlin 1895 mostly 300g hand loads. It was fun to shoot and a very handy rifle, w the williams reciever sight. It would be a great deer/hog gun hits like a sledge hammer with heavy bullets. Most guys here will load them hot and with heavy hard cast bullets for a camping/fishing bear defense gun.

I have a buddy that shot a bunch of deer and two black bear with his, and also took two caribou this past winter with it. Big slow moving hard cast bullets are great, clean through and very little of the blood shot meat that you get with super high velocity rounds.

Most factory loadings are very mild due to all the old rifles still floting around, but it can be safely loaded much hotter than the standard 300g offerings.

I have a Marlin guide gun with skinner sights that I just listed for sale locally, with about 40 rounds through it. I took it in a trade.

scout scopes are popular on these as well, but the reciever sights are my favorite.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I have a ported, 18 inch guide gun. Check over on 24hour campfire in the "Big Bore Levers" sub forum for some really good info.

According to what I've read over there a hard cast bullet in the 405-420gr range and only traveling at about 1200-1400 fps with devastate anything it hits(including coastal browns) and is pretty easy on the shoulder.

I have yet to shoot mine, I want to do a couple upgrades first with sights and a big loop lever.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Try some 300gr hollow points, round points and the 405 flat points suck on deer, I mean really suck!! The 300gr hollow points will flatten stuff and take all will to live out of them!
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

We took an 1100lb moose with a 45-70 with 350 gr non jacketed wadcutters.

Two inches apart, he fell twice and got back up, finished him with a head shot from my springfield but it was not necessary, he was walking dead.

Very very nice caliber to own!

However that said, I cannot imagine the damage that it would do to a deer, 8" bruise EASILY on a deer, it was 8-12" per shot on the moose.

Jelly meat is all that area will be...(Ribs mainly)
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I have not hunted with my long barreled 1895 .45/70 Marlin Cowboy, but I have shot it quite a bit, even out to 1000 yards on occasion and I can say it is a blast to shoot and surprisingly accurate. The charge of Varget is exactly the same as my 308, the 405 gn bullets are made from wheel weights, so it is easy to load and cheap to shoot. If you want some light loads get some trail boss powder ( very little recoil and a high fun factor).

Mine wears Skinner sights as well (ladder sights), you really should take a look at the sights Dr Skinner makes if you are getting an 1895 marlin. His ghost ring sight would be more appropriate for brush and close range hunting.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I have a few 45-70's. And it is by far my favorite cartridge.

You have to think the opposite when you think about loads for the 45-70. In most cartridges smaller bullets and more speed is desirable. But it is the opposite in the 45-70. You want big slow bullets for the best performance.

Personally I cast my own 405 grain bullets. And I use 40.0 grains of RL7 in most of mine for approx 1600 fps in velocity. And that is a relatively stout load.

To be honest any animal could not tell the difference between 1200 fps and 1600 fps with a 405 grain bullet.

It really depends on how much recoil you want. Most of my 45-70's are heavy and long barreled. So 1600 fps is not too bad.

If I was using the shorter and lighter Marlin you are talking about then I would drop my load down to about 1300 fps with the 405 grain bullet.

Alot of guys think they can go down to the 300 grain bullet and play the flatter trajectory game. But that is not really what the 45-70 is about. If you want to shoot that size bullet then get a sub 45 caliber rifle.

The 45-70 was designed to shoot the heavies. And it works best with the heavies. Tom.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

The GBL is a nice choice. I picked one up a year or so ago when they first came out. It does hold six in the magazine. Lami stock is strong, decelerator recoil pad is great, and the big loop is perfect for gloves.

I started off with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 in Seekins rings, on a 20 moa Warne base.
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After a while I went to XS ghost ring irons, as I wanted a handy carrying rig for traipsin' around the hills with.
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I'm shooting cast 405s at modest speed, about 1200 fps for an everyday load. Also have some jacketed 405s over 40gr RL7 for a harder hitting load I like to take for walks where an encounter with a bear or lion might be possible.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I haven't had the chance yet to use mine on hogs but I let my neighbor use it on a recent hunt, he ended up killing two good size boars with one round using Hornadys FTX 325gr. But my marlin didn't like to cycle that ammo for some reason everything else I used worked fine.

Heres mine with an xs lever scout mount and leupold 2.5-28 very fun to shoot.

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Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I have owned a Marlin 45-70 for years and taken quite a few deer and one hog with it using 300 grain Hornaday bullets. I hope to get to try it on a black bear some day.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I went a different route with my 45-70. Its a Browning M1895 with venier sights.

I started shooting creedmore matches (800-900-1000 yards). I load cast bullets w/black powder.

Things I've learned, you don't need to push those pills fast to make them work, Keep them to about 1100 FPS. Normal cast bullets wont work, you need pure lead. Also heavy crimps are a no-no. All three can and will cause your bullets to key hole at extended ranges.

If you are lazy like me, for practice use trailboss for practice at the same velocities you shoot your black powder loads. I use the heavy postal bullets (535 grns). Use a wad over the powder to protect the base of our bullet. put a pea size wad of grease between the wad and bullet.

Also if using black powder, put a piece of newspaper or simular item between the flash hole and the powder.

You'd be supprised what the above will do to the accuracy of your lead bullets.

What's fun about shooting these old black powder loads at range is you shoot, have a sandwitch, roll over and watch the bullet drop in on the target with your spotting scope.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Your guys' 45-70's put mine to shame. I have a Springfield Trapdoor dated 1873 that I still shoot. It has taken 3 deer...all under 200 yards. I use the remington low pressure ammo for it and it works fine. But I have to say, you guys have some beautiful 45-70's.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

My boys and I just got done casting 100plus 405 gn flat noses, they are so big we call them potato bug bullets! They are a lot of fun to make and pretty hard to screw up. I think they are as fun to make as they are to shoot!!

Montanna Marine, that is a very nice 1895!
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

My uncles got a Guide Gun in 45-70 that he loves for shooting deer and hogs in the east Texas piney woods. Hes just got a red dot on it. I load his ammo for him. Iirc, 50gr RL7 with a 350gr Hornady HP and CCI primers. We never Chrony'd them (didnt really think it necessary) but if the Hornady load book is right they are right around 1900fps. Hes killed about 8-10 deer with it between ~50 and ~150 yards and not one has taken another step past impact. He shot my steel target with it and nearly knocked the damn stand over. 178s in my 308 only wiggle it. lol.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Hey MontanaMarine - How's the weather out there?

I'm dying to get away from cities and population....and that pic is making me drool!!

(Panhandle of TX is one choice, Montana #2)
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

If your shooting longer ranges go with heavier bullets because they have the snort out farther and are more accurate. But for hunting inside 300yrds the lighter 300gr hollow points are the best for lighter game because they open and drop things. I've shot close to 20 deer with a 45-70 build on a Mauser 98, shot from the 300gr to over 500gr bullets, jacketed and cast. The only bullet I have shot deer with and not had them run is the 300gr hollow point, the 405 flat point is the worst over all on deer. I shot one doe twice through the ribs behind the shoulder and she managed 50yrds before she stopped and got a 22lr in the ear. Also shot a muley doe head on with a slight quarter, bullet entered in the center of her chest and exited behind the last rib then ripped the hide of her hind quarter and blew a 2in limb of a pine tree, she made it 200yrds before catching a bullet from a 270. The heavies knock a hole through them but the light hollow points simply shut their light of.
I'm not hating on the heavy bullets since between me and my family we shoot about a dozen variations of the 45-70 in Shilo, Axtel and vintage Sharps rifles for LR BPCR shooting which we cast for where the large heavy bullets shine. But shooting thin animals at closer ranges is not where they are best!
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I shot a few bear with my Marlin 1895. I've been using that Hornady Leverevolution FTX 325 grain round. I've been tempted to take it out hog hunting, just haven't had the chance. I'd like to do some modifications to it like the larger lever etc. Keep the pics coming.

Here's the 325 grain from a straight on chest shot into a ~300 lb spring Cinnamon Black Bear. It went in and ended up just under the hide at the rump. Its interesting you can see the hair fiber indentations.

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Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey MontanaMarine - How's the weather out there?

I'm dying to get away from cities and population....and that pic is making me drool!!

(Panhandle of TX is one choice, Montana #2) </div></div>

Typical summer right now. 80s-90s days, generally sunny and low humidity. 40s-50s nights.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But how are the winters there? I've heard horror stories that make Alaska look tropical.</div></div>

If I can butt in to this private conversation I'll mention that I retired in '94 moving to Wyoming from Alaska. The first 5 years or so I made several yearly round trips back to Alaska, half of which were in the winter.

On every trip except one, (from my house in NE Wyoming to Anchorage, driving through BC, Alberta, the Yukon, Alaska, and back), the coldest spot was always Butte MT.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I'm interested in looking into getting an all-around rifle that would put down anything we have here in KY with a quickness. It would be for everything from deer & pigs down through coyotes and into opossum sized animals and maybe smaller if I can't grab the .22. Having a pistol handy is great, and being able to grab the 12 gauge is nice, but I would like something that can reach out to make easy 75-150 yd shots and put something out right then.

I'd like something that is easy to carry everywhere (back while hiking, tractor, 4 wheeler, car, tent camping...) and is easy to sight at short to long (300 yd may be about the max around these hills) ranges. It seems like I keep coming back to the .45-70 lever action, with something like a 4-6x scope raised up with the see-thru bases so I can see the irons at shorter range. Would a scope be overkill under 300? I shoot irons pretty well; I don't have any trouble on coke cans at 75-100 yards with an iron sighted .22.

Also, what length barrel would be good for what I'm looking for? I won't even ask about loads, as there's plenty of info right above me here to look through as well as in the reloading section to keep me busy for weeks. I don't have much experience with rifles like this. I'm more familiar with handguns and small caliber bolt guns, so I appreciate all the info in this thread and anyone who's willing to answer some of my hijacking questions.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Spazz,

I don't have a 1895 but a do have a 336 marlin. Looks like the same rilfe but smaller caliber (30-30). It's a good all around rilfe for me to hunt with. Not up to par for big game. It's short and light which make it easy to lug around in hand while stalking. It rides nicely on the back with a sling. Can be grabbed up from the passnger seat and turned out the truck window without beating the dash or windows out. I havn't carried it on a tractor any but it would fit well I'd think. If I was looking to get something in 45-70 it would be the 1895SBL model, I hope to get one for myself oneday. Just something to think about. Take a look over on Marlins website at the 336 & the 1895SBL look at the 336 with the 18 1/2" barrel. You more than likely can find the 336 at Wal-mart or most gun store and it would make a good comparison for you to fell and see how the gun would work for you. The 336 is about a 1/2 pound lighter per Marlins website.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Thanks for the tip. I had thought about a 30-30 simply because it's a little easier around here to find a variety of factory loads. I'll definitely check into the 336s as well as the 1895s.

Also, would a .44 mag lever action fit the bill for what I'm looking at? What sort of ballistics and trajectory should be expected from one of those? I like the idea of having the same caliber for a revolver and a rifle, but if the cartridge isn't up to handling critters out to a couple hundred yards I don't want it. Thanks again for the advice!
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Spazz,

Using the top of the bottom duplex post in my Loopy 3-7, I've shot out to 200 yards with my 1895 45/70 Guide gun. I used those Hornady 325s. I was concerned about how well constructed those bullets were but I believe now, from what I've heard, that they're gtg on anything you'd find in KY.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Spazz,

A friend of mine has a lever gun in 44mag. I've shot it a few times. I feel it's a 150y and closer gun. The only ammo I've run in it is pistol type ammo. You may be able to load up or find better ammo for a rifle but I still think 300y would be pushing it a bit maybe 200y. Maybe someone else with more on hands knowledge of the 44mag in a rilfe will chime in.

From wikipedia:

The limiting factor is the bullet's trajectory; the best hunting bullets are heavy, thus, relatively slow, meaning a significant drop-out of trajectory at ranges beyond 100 yards (90 m); with a 50-yard zero, the point of which the "line of sight" and the "bullet trajectory" meet, drop-out at 100 yards is about 2 inches (5 cm), and drop-out at 150 yards (135 m) is more than 8 inches (20 cm); with a 100-yard zero, drop-out at 150 yards is more than 6 inches (15 cm).[25] Experts recommend limiting hunting ranges to 100 yards (91 m) when shooting .44 Magnum cartridges, less if practical accuracy requires it.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

I have had both a marlin in 45-70 and a Rossi lever (pretty nice actually) in 44mag. I will be honest I liked both. Both were small and handy. I have no idea why I got rid of the 44mag. I loaded for it, but honestly it does not work past 150 yards.

I traded my marlin in when I was getting my FAVORITE 45-70, a Gibbs Summit rifle in 45-70, its an enfield action, light and handy.... and you can load it HOT, though honestly that just hurts. I am using the hornady leverevolution. Its a tack driver, handy and robust.

Stolen pic, my rifle is the exact same, just don't have a camera at the moment:
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Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

Every body says that the deer died right in their tracks. Duh...how long were the tracks? I must admit that the last deer I shot with my .45-70 did die in his tracks...but he traveled 10 feet before piling up. Guess I need a bigger gun. I did kill one doe with a .458 cast to the head. Much shorter travel time. JMHO
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

45/70 is gonna be a bit much for deer and pigs. Ive seen that caliber do some incredibly nasty damage to some large bears and moose so I think the light skinned smaller dear are just going to be destroyed! if you like the rifle style I would go with a Marlin 336 in 30/30.
 
Re: linThe .45-70...questions about her...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RSOsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45/70 is gonna be a bit much for deer and pigs. Ive seen that caliber do some incredibly nasty damage to some large bears and moose so I think the light skinned smaller dear are just going to be destroyed! if you like the rifle style I would go with a Marlin 336 in 30/30. </div></div>

This quote is pure nonsense. I have a Marlin 1895SBL (same as the GBL you're looking at in most respects, but with a picatinny scout rail and in stainless), and it's been perfect for hunting here in Texas. The XS Sights rail that comes on the SBL is worth looking into if you're palnning on optics. I've taken two whitetail (one was only 85 lbs, and it didn't blow up) and a 250 lb hog with it so far. I love it, and it's honestly the only rifle I own that I would never part with. Shoulders well, and is super accurate. I handload for it with hardcast, and they make a clean .458 hole all the way through, everything it's hit so far has been dead on the spot. The softpoints at high speed might get messy, but dead is dead. I couldn't imagine it making more of a mess than a 7mm Mag or one of the 300 Mag's within it's useful range of 200 or so yards. For bullets, I like Beartooth's the best after trying several. No leading at any velocity, even the 350 grainers at 2150 FPS, and superb accuracy. Loaded ammo I have had the best accuracy with the Bitterroot Valley Ammo company. Their 400 grain Speer jacketed load shoots 1" groups at 100 yards with ghost ring sights, no BS. It will knock your fillings out, but that's part of owning a 45-70. For powder-puff loads BVAC(Bitterroot Valley again)'s 405 grain cast load was very accurate as well, and had very little recoil. My father in law shot a whole box of it after having a shoulder replacement, and he won't even shoot a 308 at the range.

Couple pieces of advice from someone who knows a bit about Marlins:

1: Inspect ANY new Marlin before purchase. Since they've moved to Remington's plant in New York there have been serious quality control issues, both cosmetic and mechanical. The Marlin Owners Forum has more info on that if you wanna look.

2: As is always preached around here, buy once cry once when it comes to optics. I bought a cheap Chinese scout scope to try out and see if I liked that kind of setup and the 45-70's recoil killed the scope in less than 100 rounds. No big loss as I decided I liked the ghost ring sights better anyway. That was a cheap experiment.

In short, the 45-70 is a perfect hunting rifle if you accept it's limitations with regard to range. It's versatility is hard to beat, if it's within 200 yards and it walks, you can kill it. From mild to wild, it can do it all with a cool nostalgic air.

I'm gonna have to get off my ass in this heat and go shoot my Marlin, I can't get enough of it.