LMT 6.5 MWS range report (12/01/24 update)

[matt33]

Finally got chance to stretch the legs on my LMT 6.5 CM. If I get creative here at my house, I can get about 640 yards without much difficulty. There is a slight pucker Factor as I am shooting over my primary electrical service cable to my house. I make sure I hold for elevation, not dialing today!

I'm happy with this rifle. The AR-10 platform is much more challenging to shoot accurately than a heavy bolt-action rifle, but I find the challenge fun. Honest accuracy seems to hover right around 1 MOA with Premium Factory ammo or hand loads that I've been shooting. 5 rounds at 100 yards will quite often get in the .7's, but just as often I will shoot 1.2". It's frustrating because it's always one flyer that opens up the group, typically a lack of focus on my part especially with follow through. Shooting fundamentals are so much more important with large frame AR, it is unforgiving when trying to print tiny groups!

Regardless, I was pretty happy that I went 9 for 10 on a 10" plate at 640 yards on a pretty gusty day from the bed of my pickup truck. I can't wait to get back out there and do it again.

I'm just posting this because I didn't find a ton of stuff on the factory 20 inch LMT 6.5 Creedmoor when I was researching buying one. Figured I'd post this in case anyone is curious how they perform.

 

[Near miss]

Awesome, I am about to buy LMT MARS too in 308 for €3.8K and a 6.5 barrel for it for €940, in sale. How much did yours cost?

I am afraid it won't be as precise as the MR223 but looks like they are very capable. As you noted, not much range reports or reviews being made of them.

 

[Bakwa]

I just got a 20" 6.5 SS dimpled barrel for mine. I'm also looking forward to seeing how she shoots.

 

[unclemoak]

Thanks for the report. I just put a 20” barrel in mine the other day for a long range match.

I was pretty surprised the velocity I was getting with the 20” was only 90 fps faster than my 14.5” mrgg-a barrel.

 

[matt33]

Awesome, I am about to buy LMT MARS too in 308 for €3.8K and a 6.5 barrel for it for €940, in sale. How much did yours cost?

I am afraid it won't be as precise as the MR223 but looks like they are very capable. As you noted, not much range reports or reviews being made of them.

I got a pretty good deal on mine from a large online retailer in Arizona, I believe it was $3100 out the door

It's pretty accurate. Like I said, it's very precise, except for an occasional smallish flyer. I've shot numerous five round groups in which four of the rounds go into well under .5, but the fifth round always seems to open up to .7 - .9. In fact, the last time I shot at 100 yards from a bench, the first 4 shots went into .187", and then boom, the fifth opened the group to .75". However, just as often I will shoot a 1.2" group. Some of that is natural dispersion of the system, but just as much is the recoil cycle of the large frame AR. You really need to be on point with every single shooting fundamental to get small groups

I think a realistic accuracy expectation is an honest 1 MOA

 

[matt33]

Thanks for the report. I just put a 20” barrel in mine the other day for a long range match.

I was pretty surprised the velocity I was getting with the 20” was only 90 fps faster than my 14.5” mrgg-a barrel.

I'd have to take a look back through my notes, but I do usually record velocity readings with lab radar. I was shooting 130 grain Berger hybrids, with 42.5 grains of h4350, I was averaging 2,770 FPS with an SD around 11 and extreme spread of 31

140 Hornady ELD-M with 41.5 grains of H4350 give 2,690, I think the factory Hornady ammunition 140 eldm is around 2,600 FPS

All of these are pretty consistently at or just under 1 MOA

 

[matt33]

I had about 20 minutes before my daughter got home from school, just fired off 10 rounds at about 657 yards today. Similar result, I'm really happy with this rifle.

 

[matt33]

I've been shooting this rifle a lot, so I thought I would provide an update. Today was the first day I shot a large frame AR in truly cold weather. It was about 25°, with a pretty steady 10- 12 mph wind, wind chill was about 16°. Good times, but a good learning experience.

I had my Geissele national match two-stage trigger set too light, once my trigger finger started going numb, I had doubles two shots in a row. I returned to the house to up the trigger weight to about 4.5 lb, that solved the issue. I ordered a ssa-e a couple of days ago, going to replace this trigger when the new one arrives. LMT was also blowing out their Factory 308 muzzle brakes, these are usually around $130, they were on clearance for $25, will probably install that when it arrives as well

About a month ago, I started having failures to eject, classic stove pipe jams. They started to occur more frequently, I called lmt, and they quickly sent me a new extractor. Happy to report that the new extractor completely solved any ejection issues, it is running 100% again

I've been playing around with increasing neck tension using expander mandrels, I've also been playing with a Lee Factory crimp die. Neck tension was .263 ID prior to using the mandrels, now I am getting 0.261 and I'm very happy there. The bullets seating force when hand loading feels much better now

Groups were very impressive today, .614", .698", .686", .903", and .848" at 100 yards, all five shot groups.

It was pretty windy, I only tried one five round group at 305 yards, that one was 2.45".

I added ARCA rails from D Wilson a while back, will attach a picture of those

I'm still working on improving my velocity consistency, but 42.3 grains of h4350 with a 130 Berger hybrid seems to be the ticket. Average muzzle velocity 2732, extreme spread 38, standard deviation 11.5, over 20 rounds measured. 42.1 was also good. At this point I'm happy with anything over 2,700 with standard deviation under 14

 

[Jsp556]

I’ve always been happy with my LMT’s. They’re good guns.

 

[houndog]

Great write up Matt. That one flyer that ruins an otherwise great group is the story of my life. Usually seems to happen on either the first of the last shot.

I agree compared to shooting a bolt gun an AR15 is harder and an AR10 is harder still. You seem to be getting some great groups and it's nice to be able to shoot out beyond 600 from your porch.

 

[matt33]

I spent another lunch break with the LMT today. I recently added a factory LMT muzzle brake, just a heads up they are clearing these out on their website for $25, they were usually $135. I had to get a shim kit separately. I used dead air, but surefire is probably a better option as it includes a wider variety of shims.

As someone who never used muzzle brakes very much, I was shocked at the recoil reduction. No exaggeration, it now feels like a 5.56 AR-15. I did not notice a ton of blast or additional noise to the shooter, it is an absolute pleasure to shoot this thing now vs the old A2 FH. I will say that it changed my point of impact / point of aim substantially, but during installation I also detached and reset the barrel, and also re-torqued the scope base prior to shooting today. The rifle started out extremely clean, I used a borescope, Boretech Eliminator, bronze brush, and cleaned this thing to bare metal following my last range day.

All groups were 5 rounds at 100 yards, keep in mind that I was adjusting my zero as I went. I shot my best group ever today with this rifle, just under .44". I had a couple of Flyers toward the end, the 27 degree cold and the 12 mph wind was starting to get to me, but overall I am absolutely thrilled with the performance of this rifle. Final 24 shots averaged 2,720 fps, extreme spread 42.7, standard deviation 9.5. I will take that all day long with a large frame AR.

 

[matt33]

This rifle continues to impress me. I figured I'd get with the times and start shooting 10 round groups at 100 yards. Shot a .816" just before dark, 10 Rounds on a cold very clean barrel:

 

[SFree]

This rifle continues to impress me. I figured I'd get with the times and start shooting 10 round groups at 100 yards. Shot a .816" just before dark, 10 Rounds on a cold very clean barrel:

While not having the reputation for extreme precision, such as a JP or a Seekins rifle, LMT barrels can flat out stack them. I had a lightweight chrome lined 308 barrel that would make you giggle and with not a lot of effort.

 

[matt33]

While not having the reputation for extreme precision, such as a JP or a Seekins rifle, LMT barrels can flat out stack them. I had a lightweight chrome lined 308 barrel that would make you giggle and with not a lot of effort.

It's funny, the first time I shot this thing I was so disappointed in it's accuracy. I was getting between 2-3 MOA my first time out with it. I detached and reset the barrel, bought a fancy torque wrench, changed the trigger, cleaned the shit out of it, bought a borescope, I was looking for any problem not realizing it was the nut behind the wheel.

The problem was me. I've always been able to shoot a bolt action rifle well, and I'm pretty precise with a quality 5.56 AR. However, large frame AR's punish you if you are fundamentals are not 100% on point.

I watched a bunch of videos on precision shooting the large frame AR platform, and my groups shrank considerably. Now, I am extremely focused on breathing, follow through, recoil management, all the things that a heavy bolt action rifle can forgive.

Beginning to master the large frame AR has made me a much better shooter. I really enjoy shooting it because of the challenge, everything has to be on point to make consistent hits. Go to sleep on follow through, the AR10 punishes you with an bad shot

 

[SFree]

Bingo!! Fundamentals are stressed by all instructors I’ve had in any discipline. It’s the only way to progress past mediocrity…

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Nice shooting Matt. I agree, shooting gas guns is a fun challenge.