LMT MWS MARS H vs PSA M110 Sabre Billet - 308

[hafejd30]

I fully understand what I’m comparing here,

That said I know guys here must have used and/or own both.

Is the LMT worth it vs the PSA?

Used mainly for deer from a stationary position from 100-500 yards. Weight not an issue

I really like the M110 “look” of the PSA and could buy that and top it with a decent optic for the price of a LMT

It will have a Omega 36M on the end

Let argue….whats the hide say?

I want accurate and reliable. I also like the idea of a switch barrel like my AI’s

 

[308pirate]

I fully understand what I’m comparing here,

That said I know guys here must have used and/or own both.

Is the LMT worth it vs the PSA?

Used mainly for deer from a stationary position from 100-500 yards. Weight not an issue

I really like the M110 “look” of the PSA and could buy that and top it with a decent optic for the price of a LMT

It will have a Omega 36M on the end

Let argue….whats the hide say?

I want accurate and reliable. I also like the idea of a switch barrel like my AI’s

When the question is LMT, the answer is always no.

 

[hafejd30]

When the question is LMT, the answer is always no.

So no to the LMT?

 

[XP1K]

I've seen on here that LMT has had some qc issues as of late.

I got a screaming deal on a 16" LMT MWS in 308 from a local shop so I picked it up. Slightly used, no box or anything with it. Previous owner claimed 20 rounds or less and I believe it.

From pics I posted here the experts have told me that my rifle was most likely built prior to the qc issues. All in all I'm pretty happy with it. It's a consistent 1 moa gun. I can do .75 or so if I really stay on top of it. For factory ammo it seems to favor the hornady black 168 amax load.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I've seen on here that LMT has had some qc issues as of late.

I got a screaming deal on a 16" LMT MWS in 308 from a local shop so I picked it up. Slightly used, no box or anything with it. Previous owner claimed 20 rounds or less and I believe it.

From pics I posted here the experts have told me that my rifle was most likely built prior to the qc issues. All in all I'm pretty happy with it. It's a consistent 1 moa gun. I can do .75 or so if I really stay on top of it. For factory ammo it seems to favor the hornady black 168 amax load.

LMT has had qc issues' but you are comparing to PSA. For the love of God people, there is no worse shop than PSA.

this isn't even a comparison give all the things in the LMT. I mean for fks sake people, take this stupid shit to arfcom and let's back to some intelligent conversation


and I say that as someone who is pissed to fk at LMT for them having 'psa spec'

 

[308pirate]

LMT has had qc issues' but you are comparing to PSA. For the love of God people, there is no worse shop than PSA.

this isn't even a comparison give all the things in the LMT. I mean for fks sake people, take this stupid shit to arfcom and let's back to some intelligent conversation


and I say that as someone who is pissed to fk at LMT for them having 'psa spec'

You don't like PSA? Cool don't buy one.

It's no concern of yours if others buy them, like them, and discuss them here.

 

[308pirate]

So no to the LMT?

I will never buy anything from a company that can't make a barrel extension stay together with a barrel then gives no fucks when told about it.

 

[hafejd30]

You don't like PSA? Cool don't buy one.

It's no concern of yours if others buy them, like them, and discuss them here.

I’ve personally had great luck with PSA and they always seem to stand behind the product when people have issues.

I’m heavily considering the M110 style 308 Sabre billet model. I’m just trying to decide if I want the barrel change feature of the LMT.

For what the LMT cost I could put together an entire setup with decent optic and all.

This is just a fun gun and would be used for crop damage. This isn’t a go to war or duty rifle. I know guys here have used both

Just trying to justify the step up in $ if needed. But what you mentioned is one of the complaints I recall seeing. In my opinion if I’m paying psa prices I expect a glitch here and there. If I’m paying LMT prices I would really like to be without issues

I’d buy the lmt from the px likely so we’re comparing $1500 vs $3000

 

[308pirate]

I’ve personally had great luck with PSA and they always seem to stand behind the product when people have issues.

I’m heavily considering the M110 style 308 Sabre billet model. I’m just trying to decide if I want the barrel change feature of the LMT.

For what the LMT cost I could put together an entire setup with decent optic and all.

This is just a fun gun and would be used for crop damage. This isn’t a go to war or duty rifle. I know guys here have used both

Just trying to justify the step up in $ if needed. But what you mentioned is one of the complaints I recall seeing. In my opinion if I’m paying psa prices I expect a glitch here and there. If I’m paying LMT prices I would really like to be without issues

I wouldn't take an LMT rifle to war.

Having a barrel extension come loose during use is a hell of a glitch. It makes the rifle NMC.

Maybe LMT's quick change barrel is a blessing in disguise. Easier to toss a new one on when the BE fails.

 

[308pirate]

In case you still want an LMT at least this one works so far: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/fs-lmt-mars-h-mws-dmr-308-20”-ss.7223112/

 

[Bakwa]

Having been in the industry off and on for almost 10 yrs now, this is what I've seen regarding both brands.

*PSA stuff goes back for warranty work all the time. Since the beginning of PSA.
*PSA has gotten better, but the QC is still worse than LMT during LMT's worst recent series of bad QC.
*LMT seems to be past a period of bad QC. I believe I've witnessed the wax and wane of it from trying to catch up to backlogs which started post 2020. Only time will tell if they're truly past this bad QC, but the internet will never forget.
*Both companies are easy to deal with and are both extremely responsive to replacing out of spec parts and warrantying their stuff.

My vote is get an MWS, then save up for your scope of choice. Barrels float around out there, and D. Wilson can do some cool stuff with barrels and MWS uppers.
In the long run, I believe you'll be happier with the LMT. Plus, if you ever need to sell it, you won't loose too much money.

Cheers

 

[Bakwa]

In case you still want an LMT at least this one works so far: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/fs-lmt-mars-h-mws-dmr-308-20”-ss.7223112/

If I was in the market, I'd consider that one.
Pictures of results on paper and on the chrono. You don't get that everywhere.

 

[RUTGERS95]

You don't like PSA? Cool don't buy one.

It's no concern of yours if others buy them, like them, and discuss them here.

think you missed the point but not expecting much from someone that says, 'I wouldn't take an LMT to war'

you just look fking stupid here

decrying a barrel extension but ok with PSA and their issues. I mean reeeeetarded logic not withstanding the stupid war comment.

this board really is going to shit

 

[GUNNER10]

I am a big LMT fan, but I would say the same thing that I say about alot of higher end stuff. 10,15 years ago, I think it was a no brainer to go with something like a kac or lmt large frame, but fast forward to today. There's alot of really good stuff out there, and while I am not saying psa is as good as lmt, for 99 percent of end users, it will probably do the job, and in the event of an issue, psa can address the issue.

 

[308pirate]

think you missed the point but not expecting much from someone that says, 'I wouldn't take an LMT to war'

you just look fking stupid here

decrying a barrel extension but ok with PSA and their issues. I mean reeeeetarded logic not withstanding the stupid war comment.

this board really is going to shit

Like I could give a shit less about an LMT fanboy's opinion.........

 

[hlee]

We’re talking about a “premium” rifle for the daunting task of shooting deer from a blind. A task that a $400 Walmart rifle is more than capable of performing. Is it sufficient? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Is it “worth it?” IDK.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Call D. Wilson and ask him how many of the LMTs he has done work on through the years have had a loose barrel extension. LMT produces a ton of rifles. I hardly think an epidemic of loose barrel extensions is the reality. Are they a little rough around the edges occasionally from a cosmetic standpoint, sometimes. Do they run and shoot incredibly well most of the time, in my experience, yes.

I have purchased a few large/small frames LMTs through the years (including a small and large frame in the last year) and had zero functional issues. I did send a poorly produced (from a cosmetic standpoint) DMR stock back to LMT in 2023. I had no problems getting it returned and replaced by LMT. Customer service was simply stellar in comparison to my Q Mini Fix I had to send back for a functional problem.

I have never received a discount or promotional firearm from LMT. All were paid for with my own money. I have been really happy with their stuff. Not sure if that makes me a “fanboy” as I also have Daniel Defense and Noveske ARs and like those as well.

Maybe I am getting old, some responses on the Hide perplex me these days. OP, good luck with your decision. Maybe you can find someone that can let you shoot one locally.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

A couple large frame LMTs, you can see the stock I sent back on the carbon barreled was pretty ratty. The replacement is perfect.

They both shoot great.

Not sure that you really need them for a deer gun unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a gun. They are fun to shoot and would do fine in that role however.

 

[BCP]

I think you'd be happier with an LMT.

Shooting deer from a blind you can do with anything. Ruger American 243 etc.

 

[hafejd30]

Let me clarify it’s not shooting deer from a blind. It’s shooting deer on crop damage permits for 3-5 months out of the year. I primarily use my AI AT in 308 for it. This would be just one of the uses a semi would be used for.

I’ve owned several AR10 like rock river, Armalite and JP. My thought being I didn’t use my AR nearly as much as I use my AI. This is just an itch to get another one

Either

1) Buy none
2) PSA Sabre with a primary arms or similar
3) LMT MWS/NF 4-16 ATACR

Now I know which is the best between them. I’m just not certain I need that or want to get that and wind up not using it as much as I think I would.

The beauty of the LMT (also reason I sold my JP with a 16” barrel) is I can run a shorter barrel if I want at some point. But I’d have a 20” barrel to start to get the velocity I want for reaching 400-600 yards across some of these fields

I’m by no means new to guns/killing deer or AR’s. I’m simply thinking the PSA looks like a “fun” weapon. Where the LMT would be more of a bomb proof (I know they have issues to) but more of a proven design that would be a long term investment. Which I can swap barrels as easy as I can on my AI’s

Then if I want to shoot a 6.5 to distance I just screw another barrel in

My one concern with buying a LMT is many say they’re over gassed. Not sure what the 20” rifle length gas system would be like but I don’t want to need to replace parts to run smooth suppressed if I can help it. I’m not set up for AR work and rather just have the ease of barrel swaps with the LMT. But the question then becomes will I actually swap barrels and if I stick with 308 if I’d shoot enough to even wear one out

Hope this clarifies my question. I’m not even sure I’ll buy one again. But seeing them in the classifieds like the one above has me thinking

My Armalite was old and set up like a 16” blaster. My JP was more of a gamer style gun. My Rock River LAR 8 was nice. Very heavy. Needed an adjustable gas block. But had a tube forend and the over size of the gun just kept it sitting in the safe for the most part

 

[hafejd30]

Few more things

This is set up in a field stationary. Not walk and stalk. This is set up on a vantage point and gun the whole field

Shooting from a bipod or tripod 100% of the time

Shooting suppressed 100% of the time

I also need to run 5 round mags for hunting. I haven’t looked into this but both these guns may run the same style mags. Where my RR ran FN style mags. Either way 5 rounders need to be available and I’m sure they are for both

 

[tekmann2377]

I am happy with both older and new construction LMT's, both large and small frame. They have run 100% for me without fail and my MWS has been my most accurate and reliable large frame AR out of the box.

If I was going to run mine 100% suppressed I would tune it with a solution like an adjustable gas key. It doesn't work well for for frequent adjustments but for "set and forget" it would the least invasive and not require major surgery to the rest of the gun.

Blocked 10 rd PMAGs to 5 rounds would work fine.

Good thing it isn't walk and stalk because for a 16" carbine a quad rail MWS is a bit of a fat pig! It does make for relatively comfortable shooting though.

To muddy the waters though I have a PSA PA-10 (the obvious predecessor of the Sabre) that was a limited run that came factory with a Midwest Industries 15 inch rail and a FN CHF 18 inch rifle gas barrel that is a surprisingly nice and very reliable weapon, and significantly lighter than the MWS.

 

[Bakwa]

My one concern with buying a LMT is many say they’re over gassed. Not sure what the 20” rifle length gas system would be like but I don’t want to need to replace parts to run smooth suppressed if I can help it. I’m not set up for AR work and rather just have the ease of barrel swaps with the LMT. But the question then becomes will I actually swap barrels and if I stick with 308 if I’d shoot enough to even wear one out.

Mine is a bit overpassed. Not bad, but you certainly will want to do something if your goal is suppressing it.
That said, there are very few guns out there that are comfortable to suppress without adjusting or changing something to compensate for this.

 

[hafejd30]

Mine is a bit overpassed. Not bad, but you certainly will want to do something if your goal is suppressing it.
That said, there are very few guns out there that are comfortable to suppress without adjusting or changing something to compensate for this.

The psa has an adjustable gas block on it. Just one less thing for me to mess with having to add

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Black River Tactical sells 50:50 gas tubes that are very easy to install in 5-10 minutes. I definitely recommend if you are shooting suppressed. You can also get D. Wilson to remove gas block and install an adjustable on it if you would like.

 

[XP1K]

I had to do the BRT 50/50 tube and a sprinco red spring on mine to make it behave with a SiCo omega. Granted that's a pretty tough can on auto loaders. It shoots good now though. Just needs a PRI charging handle and it'll be complete. It's the most stock large frame I've had yet. I think this is my fourth one. It's probably here to stay.

 

[BCP]

You could go 223 AR15 for that. I killed deer with a 223 and soft point bullets when I was a teen. Looking at the PSA they are using the armalite buffer tube setup now and extended carbine gas system, plus it has a 2 stage trigger and a handguard design that is good. They are blowing out armalite carbines right now for the same price which have all the same features except it's armalite so maybe a bit better quality control.

I still say LMT if you can afford it.

 

[hafejd30]

You could go 223 AR15 for that. I killed deer with a 223 and soft point bullets when I was a teen. Looking at the PSA they are using the armalite buffer tube setup now and extended carbine gas system, plus it has a 2 stage trigger and a handguard design that is good. They are blowing out armalite carbines right now for the same price which have all the same features except it's armalite so maybe a bit better quality control.

I still say LMT if you can afford it.

I have several 15’s. I use one precision setup for that currently but only headshots. Has a white oak 18” barrel.

 

[308pirate]

Call D. Wilson and ask him how many of the LMTs he has done work on through the years have had a loose barrel extension.

Don't know who he is and don't care. I won't buy an LMT product ever again no matter who says what.

 

[Jsp556]

I have old and new LMT guns. The only issue I’ve had is tighter mag wells in the large frames.

 

[sinister]

This is set up in a field stationary. Not walk and stalk. This is set up on a vantage point and gun the whole field

Shooting from a bipod or tripod 100% of the time

Shooting suppressed 100% of the time

I also need to run 5 round mags for hunting. I haven’t looked into this but both these guns may run the same style mags. Where my RR ran FN style mags. Either way 5 rounders need to be available and I’m sure they are for both

Based on your criteria I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle on brand, but rather quality of components and the overall build.

Every USAMU Service Rifle is built around a GI or privately-owned upper and lower receiver set and bolt carrier group. They build rifles around those generic-agnostic parts -- everything from GI FN, Colt, and generic spare-part contract bid providers to KAC, LMT, DPMS, PSA, and Anderson Poverty Ponies to build complete rifles and swappable upper sets .

You can build Camp Perry-winning rifles from darn near any good AR or large-frame AR set. The difference is in how they are put together and the base quality of the barrel, trigger, and ammunition.

Extra or nice features (LMT's quick-change barrel capability) are icing and sprinkles.

Seekins Precision has built rifles for Delta and the Israelis. The USAMU is partial to Armalite. The British Army uses LMTs, while many EU armies use HKs.

You can find Diamondback and Stag Arms blem upper-lower combos for around $200 on 4th of July special.

Generic builds:

 

[Jsp556]

Those Stag sets build out nicely

 

[hafejd30]

For the LMT MWS 308 guys,

How does it work suppressed? @M8541Reaper

Omega 36M the likely host

 

[M8541Reaper]

For the LMT MWS 308 guys,

How does it work suppressed? @M8541Reaper

Omega 36M the likely host

I was running my 20” SS and 16” CL with the SF SOCOM mount in my AAC 762SDN6. Worked great.

Trash can but it works.

 

[Jsp556]

My chrome lined 16” guns work fine with no changes using a Surefire Socom Mini 2.

I know it wasn’t one of your original choices but since you’re on PSA’s site, look at the Armalite large frames.

 

[hafejd30]

My chrome lined 16” guns work fine with no changes using a Surefire Socom Mini 2.

I know it wasn’t one of your original choices but since you’re on PSA’s site, look at the Armalite large frames.

I’m really looking at @M8541Reaper gun above. Just need to see if my bank account can handle the shock in its current state

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’m really looking at @M8541Reaper gun above. Just need to see if my bank account can handle the shock in its current state

I mean it’s a friggin sexy beast that shoots. …I just don’t shoot it which is why it’s in the PX.

 

[Jsp556]

I mean it’s a friggin sexy beast that shoots. …I just don’t shoot it which is why it’s in the PX.

Didn’t know he was looking at your rifle. Wasn’t trying to cockblock. Lol

@hafejd30 if you want it, go ahead and buy it. They’re solid guns that just work. I doubt you’ll regret the purchase.

 

[hafejd30]

Didn’t know he was looking at your rifle. Wasn’t trying to cockblock. Lol

@hafejd30 if you want it, go ahead and buy it. They’re solid guns that just work. I doubt you’ll regret the purchase.

It would be down to the two mentioned. With honorable mention to the seekins sp10.

I like the price of the psa. But I know where that leads eventually as I’ve owned several AR10’s already.

I feel the LMT switch barrel design could justify its cost altogether. I could shorten it to a 16” 308 or go all out to a 24”+ 6.5 caliber

Tomorrow is payday. I’ll see what my bank account looks like then and proceed

 

[Peterpan]

LMT has had qc issues' but you are comparing to PSA. For the love of God people, there is no worse shop than PSA.

this isn't even a comparison give all the things in the LMT. I mean for fks sake people, take this stupid shit to arfcom and let's back to some intelligent conversation


and I say that as someone who is pissed to fk at LMT for them having 'psa spec'

there are a lot of worse ar manufactures that psa. and i’m willing to bet you haven’t been behind one of their sabre rifles so you really have no business responding to the op at all.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Didn’t know he was looking at your rifle. Wasn’t trying to cockblock. Lol

@hafejd30 if you want it, go ahead and buy it. They’re solid guns that just work. I doubt you’ll regret the purchase.

Everyone can look…she’s available until someone puts a ring on it

 

[M8541Reaper]

It would be down to the two mentioned. With honorable mention to the seekins sp10.

I like the price of the psa. But I know where that leads eventually as I’ve owned several AR10’s already.

I feel the LMT switch barrel design could justify its cost altogether. I could shorten it to a 16” 308 or go all out to a 24”+ 6.5 caliber

Tomorrow is payday. I’ll see what my bank account looks like then and proceed

Dude the switch barrel is where it’s at. What’s that? You want to run it as a gas gun at PRS? Pop the 20”+ on. You want to do a fun 2Gun? Pop on the 16” or a shorty. Want to shoot 65cm and 308 through one gun/optic combo? Boom, swap the barrel. Want to run a short suppressed piston setup? Doneski. Want to not worry about flex on the handguard for mounted lasers? Boom. Monolithic rail. Want to pull a barrel/optic and not worry about zero shift? Boom, it’s got you. Want to be able to shoot any ammo without worrying about gas setup or tuning like a loser? Boom, da rifle be pew pewin while the losers be tunin. Did I mention she’s ambi?

“LMT…It’s got what real shooters crave.”

::fin::