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Load Suggestions for 77gr Noslers (.223) Using TAC or H335

WestDesertPRS

WestDesertPRS

Sergeant of Marines
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 13, 2019
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#1
Does anybody have a pet .223 load using 77gr Nosler HPBT and either Ramshot TAC or H335 powder? I have a bunch of both powders and I'm looking to run off some loads for my SPR-ish rifle. Its as an 18" WOA barrel (1:8 twist). Looking for best precision with at least decent velocity.

I've had good luck in the past with H4895 but I'm out right now and no powder to be found anywhere....

Primers are CCI #400 small rifle and LC brass.
 
#2
Cant attest to the nosler, but i run the hornady 75gr over 23.3gr tac at 2.250 ...roughly 2650 fps from a 16", and sub moa.
The ramshot data was REALLY hot in my gun. I hit pressure signs and erratic velocities at 24gr...lc17 brass and a cci primer.

Shred
 
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#4
When I first did my load development, I tried 77gr Nosler CC and 77gr TMK's with TAC. Ended up sticking with the TMK's but the Noslers weren't bad.

I had two main loads for my 18" Lothar Walther barreled AR:

23.4gr TAC - roughly 2620fps
24.5gr TAC - roughly 2740fps

I ended up switching powders but if I had to keep one load it would have been the 23.4. My rifle liked the 24.5 SOMETIMES...but it varied too much, and was obviously very hot loaded. MAX Nato loading for TAC was 24.7

I've heard ALOT of guys running between 23.2 and 23.6gr TAC with 77's. I would start there
 
#5
Gustav7 said:
When I first did my load development, I tried 77gr Nosler CC and 77gr TMK's with TAC. Ended up sticking with the TMK's but the Noslers weren't bad.

I had two main loads for my 18" Lothar Walther barreled AR:

23.4gr TAC - roughly 2620fps
24.5gr TAC - roughly 2740fps

I ended up switching powders but if I had to keep one load it would have been the 23.4. My rifle liked the 24.5 SOMETIMES...but it varied too much, and was obviously very hot loaded. MAX Nato loading for TAC was 24.7

I've heard ALOT of guys running between 23.2 and 23.6gr TAC with 77's. I would start there
Click to expand...
I've found that Ramshot's Nato Data for TAC needs to be backed off by about .2 to .3 grains in winchester and LC brass. I load the 70 grain tsx with 25.7 grains and get 2862 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel with an SD of 5.7. I'd start at 23.5 and work up towards 24.5 with the 77.
 
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#6
100% should always work up, even with a Nato chamber. My rifle historically has handled pressures relatively well. I did pressure tests up to 24.7, which is NATO max for TAC. It seemed to flat line and had ejector smudge and cratering. 24.5 was acceptable but in my rifle, TAC was pretty temperature sensitive. It was good enough for me to risk it, especially on hot days and strings of fire.

every rifle is different though. I’m trying XBR 8208 now
 
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#8
Gustav7 said:
100% should always work up, even with a Nato chamber. My rifle historically has handled pressures relatively well. I did pressure tests up to 24.7, which is NATO max for TAC. It seemed to flat line and had ejector smudge and cratering. 24.5 was acceptable but in my rifle, TAC was pretty temperature sensitive. It was good enough for me to risk it, especially on hot days and strings of fire.

every rifle is different though. I’m trying XBR 8208 now
Click to expand...
i use 8208 exclusively in .308 and 6.5 grendel. Haven't tried it yet with heavier 5.56
 
#9
mcfred said:
Careful running those primers at high pressure. The cups are thin and you might flame-cut a firing pin or get a face full of gas with blanked primers. Approach pressure with caution unless you have a bushed (.062") firing pin.
Click to expand...

this^^definitley. When you’re approaching NATO maxes and being more risky with reloading, everything matters.

I ran 1x fired LC weight sorted brass with Rem 7 1/2’s. Keeping all variables the same when testing for pressure signs and working near the top of the charts
 
#12
glock63 said:
How much temp variation are you seeing with TAC? I just got a chrony and haven't had a chance to experiment much yet.
Click to expand...

In my rifle, near the top of the chart, at that 24.4/24.5gr it was more than I wanted to see. Around 20-30fps over a 20 degree dip. It seemed much more sensitive at the top, and the only way i was gonna keep TAC for the 77’s was if I could get around 2750,which I did at 75-80 degrees. But at 60 degrees it was down near 2700. I decided to abandon it.

I think it’s important to note that not everyone has the same experience with TAC. It’s supposed to be a relatively stable powder for ball powder, just not in my case.
I’d give it go and do some testing and see what you find.
 
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#13
Gustav7 said:
In my rifle, near the top of the chart, at that 24.4/24.5gr it was more than I wanted to see. Around 20-30fps over a 20 degree dip. It seemed much more sensitive at the top, and the only way i was gonna keep TAC for the 77’s was if I could get around 2750,which I did at 75-80 degrees. But at 60 degrees it was down near 2700. I decided to abandon it.

I think it’s important to note that not everyone has the same experience with TAC. It’s supposed to be a relatively stable powder for ball powder, just not in my case.
I’d give it go and do some testing and see what you find.
Click to expand...
Ill chrony my current TSX load this summer when it's 80 or so and see what happens. I developed it around 35 degrees F.
 
#14
Gustav7 said:
In my rifle, near the top of the chart, at that 24.4/24.5gr it was more than I wanted to see. Around 20-30fps over a 20 degree dip. It seemed much more sensitive at the top, and the only way i was gonna keep TAC for the 77’s was if I could get around 2750,which I did at 75-80 degrees. But at 60 degrees it was down near 2700. I decided to abandon it.

I think it’s important to note that not everyone has the same experience with TAC. It’s supposed to be a relatively stable powder for ball powder, just not in my case.
I’d give it go and do some testing and see what you find.
Click to expand...

The temperature sensitivity could be an issue. I'm in AZ where we can be shooting in 45 deg in the winter and 115 in the summer.
 
#15
Kind of a side question... but for those of you using Tac / H335 / 8208 in a progressive press, what kind of +/- tolerance are you getting as far as powder charge, and what meter/thrower are you using?
 
#16
milanuk said:
Kind of a side question... but for those of you using Tac / H335 / 8208 in a progressive press, what kind of +/- tolerance are you getting as far as powder charge, and what meter/thrower are you using?
Click to expand...
Im using the dillon measure, unmodified and with proper technique and practices i see .1 grain max variation across 25 throws with tac.

Shred
 
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#18
WestDesertPRS said:
The temperature sensitivity could be an issue. I'm in AZ where we can be shooting in 45 deg in the winter and 115 in the summer.
Click to expand...

If that’s the case I would look into 8208 xbr. Load a 77gr Sierra or Nosler at 2.260, over 23-23.8 (start low and work up, I settled at 23.2). XBR is super temp stable. I’m in AZ too so I’m dealing with the same heat issues.
 
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#19
milanuk said:
Kind of a side question... but for those of you using Tac / H335 / 8208 in a progressive press, what kind of +/- tolerance are you getting as far as powder charge, and what meter/thrower are you using?
Click to expand...

For my precision loads I just use a chargemaster. I run a 5in. slightly modified funnel through the toolhead hole to weight every charge. WIth the standard code mode on the chargemaster I don't usually wait long.

However I have done H335 through my dillon powder measure, and H335 is very similar in size to TAC. I was seeing pretty much spot on. However I'm sure every once in a who, I'd get one charge that was 0.1gr under, and then the next would be 0.1gr over. So a total of +/-0.1 I would estimate. Good enough for me.

Like Sirshredalot said, proper technique is key. I usually do 10-20 dumps with the powder measure to make sure everything is settled and the powder measure is throwing consistently, then I begin loading. Cant stress this enough: CONSISTENT RAM/HANDLE MANIPULATION. Its not about doing it a specific way....its about doing it whatever way you choose, CONSISTENTLY. Consistent pressure, consistent speed, consistent arm motion, consistent everything.

If I go to run the ram, and something feels off/tight/crunchy/poppy/etc... I'll weigh my charge, and check my seated bullet to make sure I'm within limits.
 
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#20
That's about what I remembered from years past. Recently started loading some ball powder (2000MR, if it matters) in a different caliber and was seeing much bigger swings - +/- 0.3 gn, sometimes as much as 0.5 gn. Definitely need to get that sorted out.
 
#21
SonoranPrecision said:
If that’s the case I would look into 8208 xbr. Load a 77gr Sierra or Nosler at 2.260, over 23-23.8 (start low and work up, I settled at 23.2). XBR is super temp stable. I’m in AZ too so I’m dealing with the same heat issues.
Click to expand...

Never tried that powder before. What kind of velocities are you seeing with 77gr hpbt? My barrel is 223 Wylde / 1:8 twist / 18" for reference.

I was specifically asking about Tac and H335 because I have a shitload of that stuff (16lbs of each) but I'm open to trying new powders.
 
#22
WestDesertPRS said:
Never tried that powder before. What kind of velocities are you seeing with 77gr hpbt? My barrel is 223 Wylde / 1:8 twist / 18" for reference.

I was specifically asking about Tac and H335 because I have a shitload of that stuff (16lbs of each) but I'm open to trying new powders.
Click to expand...

Out of a 16” 223 wylde, I had them running at about 2625, so they’d be about 2675-2700 of of an 18”. I was getting consistent impacts at 600yards for what it’s worth, wasn’t affected much by temperatures.
Tac is supposed to be really good, just a little more sensitive to temperature swings. I’d stay away from h335 as it’s known for lacking stability.
 
#27
milanuk said:
Kind of a side question... but for those of you using Tac / H335 / 8208 in a progressive press, what kind of +/- tolerance are you getting as far as powder charge, and what meter/thrower are you using?
Click to expand...

Monte with 8208, 335 as another poster mentioned, my dillon measure on the 550 tosses charges that vary +- 0.1 grain from the target, ie if I was loading 24.0 grains of powder, the variance is 23.9 to 24.1 grains. With courser grained powders the variability increases. Some advocate polishing the metal on the inside of the dillon powder measure hopper... I haven't gotten around that yet.:LOL:
 
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