Loading precision rifle ammo on a Dillon 750 + MBF, a few questions...

[CK1.0]

I'm trying to get my plan together for loading 6mm Creedmoor on my Dillon XL750 with Mr. Bullet Feeder (MBF) and I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can help answer...

I've never done any rifle stuff with my Dillon rig so this will be a learning experience, and while I know a couple guys who do rifle stuff with their Dillons, it's all just AR blasting type stuff, not precision long range stuff, so I'm still trying to figure out just how I want to go about trying to pull this off (or if it's even worth bothering with).

Currently, using a single-stage setup, I usually load 200 at a time, and while I'm faster than most, it takes most of a full day-off, or 3-4 afternoon/evenings... of course shit happens and then it can take longer due to all the separate processes. I figure using the Dillon/MBF I could do 400 at a time, in half the time, with half the effort.

(But, of course, it will only be worth it if the ammo doesn't suck...)

So far, my plan is to go:

AMP > wet tumble/dryer > Pass 1 > dry tumble > trim/chamfer/deburr (Giraud) > Pass 2 = done.

Using 2 separate toolheads: #1 for decap, size, mandrel, and #2 for priming, powder, bullet (I may run another decapper in station #1 so I don't have to be as perfect about getting all the corn cob out of the flash holes).

The things I have questions about all occur during the 2nd pass through the press (toolhead #2), and are:

[1] Do cases get their freshly chamfered/deburred mouths fucked up when falling on top of each other down the case feeder tube or what?

I know I could just load cases manually to the shell-plate one at a time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of going full-on progressive... on the other hand, if the case mouths all get dinged up enough to where it screws with seating bullets, that ain't gonna work either...

[2] (this is a two-part question) Does the powder funnel used for the case-activated powder drop do anything wonky to the case mouths, or is there a better tool for the job than whatever powder funnel Dillon recommends?

With pistol stuff the powder funnel also flares the case mouth so they'll catch flat-base bullets, obviously I'll want no part of anything like that for the rifle cases, they don't need to be flared to accept boat-tails...

And, I'm planning to drop Sta-Ball straight into the cases after being primed: would it be better to prime-only at station #2 (and do I need to use a hold-down die?) and then drop powder at station #3... or just do prime/powder both at station #2?

[3] Do the bullet meplats get dinged up when they get to the bottom/end of the MBF tube and run into each other right before they get dropped or do they make it ok?

I know with the pistol bullets, sometimes they smack down on top of each other pretty good, so wondering if it's enough to where it deforms the tips on the rifle bullets...

Of course, if there's anything else I've forgotten that seems worth mentioning or tips from experience, please enlighten me...

Thanks.

 

[LR1845]

Question #1 no…put your finger through the hole at the bottom of the feed tube where the cases drop into the Dillon until it fills up it helps absorb the shock.

Question #2 no…the problem I ran into was up to a .6g variation in charges…your better off getting a powder through funnel and an area 419 Dillon funnel and weighing charges if your looking for accuracy.
Even weighing charges it’s still way faster than a single stage.

PRIMING…problem I ran into here was my the Dillon was not seating primers deep enough…my Dillon seats the flush with the head which caused erratic/high ESs and it took me a minute to figure that out.

if you have that issue it’s simple to fix…I’ve read…you can sand the cup the primer rod rides in to seat deeper…tiny bit at a time…I have not done it but plan to.

ive not used the MBF seems like more of a pain in the ass than it’s worth but like I said I’ve not used one.

 

[CK1.0]

Question #1 no…put your finger through the hole at the bottom of the feed tube where the cases drop into the Dillon until it fills up it helps absorb the shock.

Question #2 no…the problem I ran into was up to a .6g variation in charges…your better off getting a powder through funnel and an area 419 Dillon funnel and weighing charges if your looking for accuracy.
Even weighing charges it’s still way faster than a single stage.

PRIMING…problem I ran into here was my the Dillon was not seating primers deep enough…my Dillon seats the flush with the head which caused erratic/high ESs and it took me a minute to figure that out.

if you have that issue it’s simple to fix…I’ve read…you can sand the cup the primer rod rides in to seat deeper…tiny bit at a time…I have not done it but plan to.

ive not used the MBF seems like more of a pain in the ass than it’s worth but like I said I’ve not used one.

That's good info, thanks. Very helpful.

I hear you on the powder, but was that with stick powder? If so, then I'm still thinking Sta-Ball might be worth a try (it's a ball powder and meters as good or better than the Alliant Sport Pistol I use for 9mm). Dropping it manually with a through-funnel isn't out of the question either though...

I was wondering about the primer seating depth with the 750... thanks for that too.

IDK, I guess I'm still on the fence about it... but since I've started doing larger batches of rounds, every load cycle it starts to make more sense. I suppose I still would pick up a bunch of speed over doing everything on the single-stage even without dicking around with the MBF (was just thinking it'd be cool to pump out rounds like an ammo factory like with pistol stuff).

Another option I was thinking of would be just using the Dillon to run a "processing pass": just a single pass to decap/resize/mandrel all in one shot without having to touch a single case, then, even if I continue to prime, drop powder and then use the single-stage to seat bullets like I've been doing, that still might save me a bunch of time. I guess I can start with that...

 

[LR1845]

Yes varget…

I’d definitely give it a try but I’d suggest only running 50 or so just to see how they run.

I size and expand on my 750 and it’s a HUGE time saver and makes quick work of one of the things I don’t like doing.

one of these days I’ll stop being lazy and get the primer thing straightened out.

 

[LR1845]

Also If your going to decap on the Dillon do yourself a favor and get a might armor decapping die I can’t say enough good about the MA.

 

[CK1.0]

Also If your going to decap on the Dillon do yourself a favor and get a might armor decapping die I can’t say enough good about the MA.

Yep I'm down with the Mighty Armory stuff.

 

[sturm45]

That's good info, thanks. Very helpful.

I hear you on the powder, but was that with stick powder? If so, then I'm still thinking Sta-Ball might be worth a try (it's a ball powder and meters as good or better than the Alliant Sport Pistol I use for 9mm). Dropping it manually with a through-funnel isn't out of the question either though...

I was wondering about the primer seating depth with the 750... thanks for that too.

IDK, I guess I'm still on the fence about it... but since I've started doing larger batches of rounds, every load cycle it starts to make more sense. I suppose I still would pick up a bunch of speed over doing everything on the single-stage even without dicking around with the MBF (was just thinking it'd be cool to pump out rounds like an ammo factory like with pistol stuff).

Another option I was thinking of would be just using the Dillon to run a "processing pass": just a single pass to decap/resize/mandrel all in one shot without having to touch a single case, then, even if I continue to prime, drop powder and then use the single-stage to seat bullets like I've been doing, that still might save me a bunch of time. I guess I can start with that...

I'd prime off press then powder and seat on the Dillon instead of doing all of those ops with single-stage.

 

[CK1.0]

I'd prime off press then powder and seat on the Dillon instead of doing all of those ops with single-stage.

IDK. The way I see it I've got 3 or 4 paths I can try:

1 - Do a single processing pass on the Dillon, just decap, resize, mandrel... do the rest the way Ive been doing it: trim/chamfer/deburr, then Frankford Perfect Seat Priming Tool (awesome priming tool BTW, a lot better and $500+ less than that shitty, expensive, Primal Rights POS, and it's at least twice as fast too), drop Sta-Ball straight into cases, seat bullets using my single-stage.

2 - Processing pass on the Dillon, off press for trim/chamfer/deburr, then back on the Dillon for prime, powder (NOT case-activated, using my usual volumetric measure and the appropriate adapter for the Dillon toolhead), manually place and seat bullets (no MBF).

3 - Processing pass on Dillon, off press for trim/chamfer/deburr, then back on the Dillon for prime, powder (case-activated using a Dillon Powder measure), manually place and seat bullets (no MBF).

4 - Processing pass on Dillon, off press for trim/chamfer/deburr, then back on the Dillon for prime, powder (case-activated using a Dillon Powder measure), auto place and seat bullets with MBF.

Actually, from just looking at this list after typing out: since there's no way to be sure if I'm going to love the ammo that results from this or not. And it's also going to be an "experiment" until I get it dialed or say "fuck this", I might just buy the shit I need as I work down the list... and hopefully I won't end up wasting any more money on crap I don't use. As I work my way down the list the stuff I need to buy goes from around less than $200 worth of stuff, to over $600 if I end up going whole-hog and end up getting everything A-Z. (At this point in my personal gun-hobby-saga It's less about the money than just simply acquiring any more useless gun shit, like most of us I've already got plenty of that stuff kicking around and don't need anymore.)

I'll have to load another 400rds up next week sometime, and I might try a couple things to see if I can make it less painful without even bothering with the Dillon. Then I'll decide what I feel like ordering and how involved I want to get for now...

Swapping the stuff to do a processing pass on the Dillon is relatively cheap and easy (it's only like 5 parts to swap out from how it's setup now for 9mm), but in a way, it might only save me like 30 minutes, and even that is really a wash if I count the time it takes me to change over and put back the Dillon so IDK... In a way I'm starting to think that unless I just wade in deep and go all-out, running it all on the Dillon as much as possible, I won't really get much time back to have made it worth the time and effort.

And shit, if I'm going to spend another $400-600+ for the stuff to change-over the Dillon to do rifle A-Z, then I might just have to consider just buying another XL750 + case feeder in 6creed for like ~$400-600 more... then I wouldn't have to change-over or reset anything...

I'll see how it goes I guess...

 

[Mauser06]

I don't shoot super high volume....but between work and other hobbies and life, I don't have a ton of free time either.


When I get home I run the cases through my decapping die.

They go into the tumbler for a long tumble.

I save those till I have a couple hundred.

Then I size them all.

Then they get trimmed/chamfered/deburred


Back into the tumbler for lube and debris removal.


I then save those till I need them.

550 is setup with a floated mandrel in station 1. I've primed with it and not seen adverse effects but I just started this process.

Station 2 I have a dillon powder funnel and area 419 funnel. Remember to keep the ram up! Lol. Grab the powder, dump it in the funnel, put it back on the scale.

Station 3 is a floated seating die.


Essentially 4 processes with 1 pass.


I have a friend measuring concentricty of a few of those rounds to see how they look. I think they should be as good as most.



I've ran pistol powders and ramshot TAC through the dillon powder drop. Even with some of those powders, i wouldn't use it for long range or match ammo. I will continue to drop my powder by hand.


The entire process worked pretty well. Sure beat handling each case 4x. Had I not had a few hiccups, I'd been under an hour for 100rds I'd say.

 

[CK1.0]

Yeah, I think going progressive is the way, I guess I'm just still hammering out how I'm going to go about it...

As for dropping powder on the Dillon: I don't want to sound like a salesman or anything, but you guys using progressives need to try Sta-Ball and see what you think, it's fucking game changing man. I can drop powder for 100rds in 10mins or less and 99.9% of them are dead nuts on (a few here and there are maybe +/- .1gr which doesn't even really show up downrange, never more than that) and my ammo is every bit as consistent as my buddy who has/uses a $6k Prometheus and takes an hour+ to do powder for his rounds.

I'm not all over Sta-Ball's nuts or anything, it's just the first of it's kind that actually works. I'm just hoping more temperature-stable ball powders for rifle like it hit the scene, because it makes everything easier/better and it's awesome not having to waste my life weighing and trickling, or waiting on some expensive and slow machine. After using it for about a year solid, I'm pretty sure it's going to kick ass with the Dillon.

 

[LR1845]

Yeah, I think going progressive is the way, I guess I'm just still hammering out how I'm going to go about it...

As for dropping powder on the Dillon: I don't want to sound like a salesman or anything, but you guys using progressives need to try Sta-Ball and see what you think, it's fucking game changing man. I can drop powder for 100rds in 10mins or less and 99.9% of them are dead nuts on (a few here and there are maybe +/- .1gr which doesn't even really show up downrange, never more than that) and my ammo is every bit as consistent as my buddy who has/uses a $6k Prometheus and takes an hour+ to do powder for his rounds.

I'm not all over Sta-Ball's nuts or anything, it's just the first of it's kind that actually works. I'm just hoping more temperature-stable ball powders for rifle like it hit the scene, because it makes everything easier/better and it's awesome not having to waste my life weighing and trickling, or waiting on some expensive and slow machine. After using it for about a year solid, I'm pretty sure it's going to kick ass with the Dillon.

keep us updated im real curious to hear how all of this works out for you.

 

[CK1.0]

I load 6GT on a 650 with StaBall and a MBFR. The last match I shot with it I tied for first. Quite a few long-bomb stages out to 1200 too.

I use a case prep toolhead. Decap -> Wet tumble/ Dry -> AMP -> lube and resize -> wet tumble/ Dry -> trim (chamfer/debur with Henderson) if I think I need it -> load.

I prime and throw powder on station 2, drop a bullet, and then seat.

That's it.

I don't worry about the case mouths getting dinged on the case feeder. I use Hornady brass. I'm not going to do load development based on primer seating depth; I'll just seat on a Dillon. Meplats on 107 SMKs are already ugly.

But hey, nodes don't exist and half moa is all you need right?

Awesome. That's pretty much the routine I plan to end up with too...

Just wondering, do you decap on the Dillon with a separate (3rd) toolhead just for the decapper (with a different toolhead for sizing and another one for loading)? Thanks.

 

[Huskydriver]

Yea just prime on the Dillon screw doing that 1 at a time.

Case mouths will be fine dropping from the feeder. I haven't used staball but usually throw
powder by hand with a v3.

My process is pretty similar to @reubenski with similar results on the target.

One thing you may need to do to control run out from sizing and expanding the neck is float your dies on orings and clamp you tool heads with uniqutek style clamps or leave your tool heads floating and camp your dies.

I get less than .001 runout using floating dies. Ymmv.

I can never ever go back to loading on a single stage ain't nobody got time for that peasant BS

 

[CK1.0]

@reubenski, are you using the small output assembly and the 6.5/.264 caliber conversion for your Mr. Bulletfeeder (hoping this is all I need to swap over, mine's currently setup for 9mm)..?

 

[CK1.0]

I'm using a 6.5mm bullet feeder with one of the 3 silver BB's in an offset "higher" position. Standard 308/ Creedmoor sizing for the shell plate, and conversion kit. This works with 6BR as well. I'm using a Redding BR30 on a powder die dropping 8208 for that. And an RCBS case activated drop for 308W and BLC2.

The 6 Creed, 243, 6BR conversion kits will give you the 6mm powder insert but everything else is 308 common

Thanks, awesome info. ...and thanks for the heads up with the BB's (had forgot about those)...

 

[Birddog6424]

Ditch the bullet feeder. Eliminate a lot of those processes.

 

[Birddog6424]

What process?

Juggling tool heads, loaders, multiple tumbling etc.

Tumble, lube, and load. Decap and resize at the first station, primer in the 2nd (mandrel optional) powder dump in the third, seat the bullet, and done. Easy peasy and fast.

Nothing else a person does will improve on POI/SD/ES.

 

[Huskydriver]

Juggling tool heads, loaders, multiple tumbling etc.

Tumble, lube, and load. Decap and resize at the first station, primer in the 2nd (mandrel optional) powder dump in the third, seat the bullet, and done. Easy peasy and fast.

Nothing else a person does will improve on POI/SD/ES.

You never trim?

 

[CK1.0]

I'm pretty forward thinking, but...

No trim or even chamfer/deburr? You just leave the lube on?

 

[Middle Man]

Running 650 with a Hornady powder measure for large rifle loading. Better with stick powders than the Dillon measure. Also started loading Staball in Creedmoor, pleased thus far…. I also employ an extra powder die (or two or Lee Universal decap die) in toolheads to keep everything square and flush (reduce shellplate flex). Plus a shellplate bearing kit, which seems to tighten and smooth up the advance of the plate.

Hand measure powder in certain situations and run like a single stage.

Two toolheads, one for processing and one for loading. No bullet feeder, have not felt necessary (yet).
Slow and steady wins the race on progressive rifle loading for me…

 

[Birddog6424]

None of that has anything to do with dropping bullets.

You don't want to wash lube off? Don't.

You want to decap using the sizing die. Go for it.

You want to seat the bullet in station 4 instead of 5. Fine. But it doesn't make a loaded round pop out faster

I'm not sure I understand you here.

My position, based on my experiences loading with the Dillon progressive, is that running twice through case feeders and tool heads along with a couple passes through the tumbler, most definitely added time to the process. I've done all that at some point using a few different calibers.

What I also found out is it didn't make a difference in performance. I kept trimming steps off my process but nothing changed in my rifles performance. POI/SD/ES, all remained the same. But I most definitely saved time in the reloading room.

I've been loading on the 650 since 2014. I've tried it every way under the sun. This is method that I've found that works for me, allows me to load 100 precision rifle rounds in about 30 minutes, and doesn't impact my performance. Everyone else is welcome to use whatever process they wish if they wish to increase the time necessary to load the same quality of rounds.

I get it. Its reloading. Sometimes folks do things just because it makes them feel better about the process, and there's some value in that.

 

[Birddog6424]

You never trim?

Maybe every 4th or 5th firing. Certainly not every time. I anneal every 3rd firing, but my annealer runs right next to me while I'm loading.

I'm pretty forward thinking, but...

No trim or even chamfer/deburr? You just leave the lube on?

I lightly coat with One Shot. Sometimes I wipe it off as I move it to an ammo box. Usually for big matches I will.

But I definitely don't chamfer or fuss over my brass on every reload. It doesn't change anything. I can take brass on its 3rd firing, tumble it and load it, and it will perform identical to the same load thats trimmed chamfered, wiped off, spit polished, and given words of positive reinforcement.

Between 3 Gun, PRS, and USPSA, and all the time spent standing at the bench feeding the blue beast for more ammo, I honestly want to get from component to loaded round with the least fuss. Anything that doesn't improve performance has been cut out.

 

[spife7980]

 

[Birddog6424]

Morgun King reloads and shoots ammo without even tumbling it sometimes. Shoots it and reloads it without doing anything at all by way of prep.

 

[CK1.0]

I lightly coat with One Shot. Sometimes I wipe it off as I move it to an ammo box. Usually for big matches I will.

But I definitely don't chamfer or fuss over my brass on every reload. It doesn't change anything. I can take brass on its 3rd firing, tumble it and load it, and it will perform identical to the same load thats trimmed chamfered, wiped off, spit polished, and given words of positive reinforcement.

Between 3 Gun, PRS, and USPSA, and all the time spent standing at the bench feeding the blue beast for more ammo, I honestly want to get from component to loaded round with the least fuss. Anything that doesn't improve performance has been cut out.

IDK man, I've shot and cranked out like a zillion rounds over the years for USPSA/IDPA/3-Gun, and IMHO precision rifle ammo is a different thing entirely.

There are a lot corners you're cutting, that I don't think I'm willing to cut, not because I'm some traditionalist (far from it), but because I've seen the difference downrange. I'm lazy as hell, I've tried skipping just abut everything twice, but when it comes to "the good stuff" I still anneal, trim, chamfer, deburr, tumble twice... I draw the line at neck turning, weighing shit besides powder, and uniforming primer pockets and flash holes, but I damn near do it all.

I don't want this thread to turn into a back and forth about who's "reloading ethos" leads to zen. If your ammo is good, that's cool. My ammo is great too. It just takes too long sometimes.

I want to use the Dillon to hopefully make ammo close to, or at, the same quality as I've been making, just faster.

Morgun King reloads and shoots ammo without even tumbling it sometimes. Shoots it and reloads it without doing anything at all by way of prep.

I bet dude isn't driving/flying to matches with that shit though, and I'd raise that bet that he wasn't showing up at matches with anything like that back when he was paying his own way...

Practice shit is practice shit - I run 6 creedmoor and shoot shit like Prvi Partizan PPU 22-250 cases that I've run through a mandrel for practice, and yeah, it's actually not bad... but it's not nearly as good as my "good stuff".

 

[Birddog6424]

First, this was your position. And why I responded about the bullet feeder.

Now you changed your position to brass prep.

Yep, I've also done this and sometimes still do. Just not my standard process.

You do you. Do what you want. IDGAF. Sick of hearing "cool guy", slacker-loading bragging.

No idea why you would take it personal about some slacker loader. It isn't bragging, its just someone stating their experiences that its not as hard as we often make it out to be. Its not an attack on you, and its not something I feel strongly enough to argue over.

So its all good from where I'm sitting brother..