Long Range Ar15?

LS6TT

LS6TT

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 28, 2009
437
0
DFW, Texas
#1
Hey guys, been reading here for a while great site.

I am interested in building a Ar15 for long range, is there a write up or can any of you provide some thoughts on what I should be looking for on my build? ( i did a search, but im not so good with keywords)

I already have a DPMS lower in .223.

Thanks in advance
 
#2
Re: Long Range Ar15?

well if you have a .223 (ar-15) lower, one caliber comes to mind for longer ranges... that would be the 6.5 grendel!

i am also in the boat similar to you, thinking of building a 600+ yard precision varmint/target rig!
 
#5
Re: Long Range Ar15?

trigger, barrel and ammo......................

If long range is 600 or more, you are going to want bullets in the 75-77grain range. Black hills makes some of the best loadings.

75-77grain bullets mean a quality barrel with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist and a wylde chamber. WOA, Krieger make some of the best barrels. But, the stainless barrels from RRA aren't a bad lower cost option. I don't shoot well enough to notice the difference between RRA and WOA so I shoot mostly RRA stainless match barrels.

Stock "mil-spec" triggers from DPMS,RRA,Bushmaster ect ect will not get you where you want to be. The top of the lined IMHO are the Gieselle triggers......spelling doesn't count. An RRA two-stage is a very good lower cost option. Lots of options. Check the AR trigger thread which I think is still at top of this section.

Also.......use a real stock. Magpul makes an adjustable one....which is heavy and expensive but good. A plain-old A2 will work as well. IF you have to use an adjustable, LMT's Sopmod is about the only adjustable stock that will facilitate a decent, repeatable and stable checkweld.

After that........its all ammo and practice
good luck.

 
#7
Re: Long Range Ar15?

thanks for the reply, the Magpul PRS is the stock im looking at, barrel wise, i was trying to decide if i was going to build one on the del-ton site, but there 20"s are 1:9. will that cut it or do i need to look at a different barrel?

I did add the RRA stage two
 
#8
Re: Long Range Ar15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 black guns are your friend as well. </div></div>

a 700 in 308 is in the plans, i want to do something different with my AR lower
 
#9
Re: Long Range Ar15?

a 1:9 twist will LIKELY limit you to 69gr Match ammo. Many report that the hornady 75gr ammo and some even report that the black hills 75gr match ammo will stabilize out of their 1:9 barrels.........but it isn't a sure thing.

Lots of guys shoot 69gr match to 600yrds effectively. Many wish they had a heavier round, but lots do it and do it well.
 
#11
Re: Long Range Ar15?

When it comes to long range AR-15, I think I can answer all your questions. I am an F-T/R competitor and have been shooting up to 1000 yards with my long range Match AR-15, in .223 Winchester.

When it comes to LR, the most critical item is the barrel. What you select for a barrel will determine if you can effectively shoot the AR at the distances you are thinking about.

I have not figured out if you handload your own ammunition or if you have plans to do that, if you do not, don't even think of shooting an AR-15 effectively much past 600 yards.

If you do reload,then you want to look at the 80 grain bullets or longer. To stabilize these long bullets you will need at 1:8 twist for the 80grainers or a 1:6.5 twist for the 90grain bullets. I elected to go with the 80gr JLK in a heavy Krieger 26 inch 1:7.7 barrel chambered in 5.56 Match.

The other things you want to do to your rifle are all nice, but barrel first, others things later.
 
#12
Re: Long Range Ar15?

I'll second Sig685's recommendation.

I have an AR with a heavy 28" Krieger. As I wasn't planning on stretching it out to 1k initially, I went with the 1:9 twist. It shoots 75gr bullets absurdly well at 600yds but haven't put any 80's through it to see how they would do.

Get the best barrel you can't afford.
 
#13
Re: Long Range Ar15?

Thanks for the quick input. I am not a reloader, but a buddy is so ill make sure to head your advice on the grainage.

What size barrel should I be looking at? 20" too short? I think for what im looking for a 28 will be way to long
 
#15
Re: Long Range Ar15?

www.whiteoakarmament.com

I have a White Oak 26" match barrel on my AR (it's FS BTW). Shoots like this (group shot with factory Remington UMC 45gr JHPs, it's even better with handloads).

IMGP0380.jpg
 
#16
Re: Long Range Ar15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LS6TT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also to add, what sites should i be looking at for barrels? </div></div>

If you send an upper to Krieger they will install a nice barrel to your specs that will make the group shown above appear to be from a shotgun.
www.kriegerbarrels.com

Shilen makes good barrels also.
www.shilen.com

I recently bought a Broughton barrel for another rifle and I'm impressed with the results so far.
www.rifle-barrels.net

Look also for Schneider. Bartlein and many other excellent barrel manufacturers.

I would suggest a 24 inch barrel, but if you can find your way to live with 26 inches, you will be pleased. A long range AR-15 is all about the barrel.
 
#17
Re: Long Range Ar15?

I shot a 1/4" internet commando (3 round) group with my WOA at 100yds w/factory ammo, they are fantastic barrels. Definately don't skimp on the barrel if you looking for something accurate at 600 yds. A chrome lined delton or standard GI will not compare to a nice stainless match barrel from what I've seen.
 
#19
Re: Long Range Ar15?

The 75gr Amax is a good bullet. I shot quite a number of these in 1000 yard competition, but I ultimately gave them up in favor of the 80grainers. I found that I had to load the 75gr so hot to keep them reliably supersonic at 1000 yards, that I was getting uncomforatble with the load, even with a CWS. This was out of a 1:8 twist 24 inch barrel. With my 26 inch barrel and the 80gr JLK I am able to reduce the load by a full grain from the Amax and a half grain from the 24 (I suspect the 26 is tighter than the old 24) and the rounds are solidly supersonic at 1000 yards.

It's all in the barrel.
 
#20
Re: Long Range Ar15?

First, no need to get a .308. If you are comfortable single-loading, then a .223 AR, set up properly, will make it to 1000 just fine.

Yup: You will need a 1 in 6.5 for the 90's. For the 80's a 1 in 8 will work, if it's a true 8-twist, but you will be safer with 1 in 7. I have a 1 in 7 and it works better in cold weather.

I have been underwhelmed by the 90-grainers and I, too, have had best results with JLK's. To 800 yards 80SMK's are OK, but to shoot at 1000 buy a bucket of 80JLK's and don't look back (I enter a BC of .516 using them with Exbal).

I know the F Class guys will disagree with me here, but you need a 'good' barrel, not a top quality one. The barrel doesn't need to be very long because .223 case capacity is very small, and because you are not using iron sights. I shoot a 22" Douglas chambered by Accuracy Speaks. I'm getting 2850-2875fps with my JLK's, depending on the load.

Seat the JLK's to the lands and start with 24.5 of RE15. That should get you an instantly good load that you may or may not want to tune later.
 
#22
Re: Long Range Ar15?

Well, I shoot my Ar @ 1000yds. every Monday night that it's not raining, during Daylight S. time.

This past Monday night I shot 100-4x score on a NRA prone target, off bi-pod. I'm working up/with a new load but after I got centered and stop clicking around I was only down one point in 17 shots, with 8x.

Per 1k, my Recommendation depends on your wallet. If you got tons of money, have an Ar-10 built in .260 rem.

If you have "some" money, get a 6mm AR Turbo 40 degree from Robert Whitly.

the 6.5 Gren was created for down-range energy. The 6mm turbo has better drop/drift tables, but less on target energy @ range. (off the top of my head.)

Me, I'm a poor boy. If I shop around I can buy 100, 80 grain Hornady A-max bullets for $16 +/-. So I stick with .223 REMINGTON.

(never heard of a .223 Win. ?)

You need a 8 twist barrel or faster. (for .223) (7.7 is perfect if you ask me.) 7 is fine but at the cost of a touch of Mv. Also you need a 24"+ barrel. I'm running a 26, if I had it to do over again it would be a 28 with a long gas tube.

I did shoot 1000yds. with a WOA 20" barrel, but I was having to run my loads way hot to be super sonic At 1000, and it was trashing brass.

I recommend, as recommended to me by member "CRIVER" (thanks G.) Frank White @ Compass Lake Engineering. He builds top notch uppers for highpower competitors.

He has Kreiger and Douglass blanks in stock, reasonably priced.

Contrary to other comment the .223 Rem does not have enough Horsepower to justify a 90 grain bullet. It can lauch them, albeit slowly, but their is no gain down range over 80's.

Inside 600 yards use Horn 75's or Berger,Sierra 77's and enjoy the mag feeding and quick follow up shot. Past 600 go to hand feeding 80g. High BC bullets.

When you build it, a JP "adjustable" gas block is nice to have while on the line. With the turn of the screw you can turn the gas block off, and not sling brass way off that you have to find later. You work the action by hand, each round with the charging handle. Brass flips out right there on your shooting mat, in reach, while prone.

Feel free to pm me with specific questions...

 
#23
Re: Long Range Ar15?

awesome guys I appreciate it. great help here and thanks for the links. you say your shooting the rem 223, those are 55 grain correct? are their distance issues with a 55 grain on a 1:8 ?
 
#24
Re: Long Range Ar15?



Um, you need to carefully read what I wrote again. For long range, your gonna need 75-80 grain bullets. No one said anything about 55's. Their long outdated.

Other bullets will not make it, period. Too light and too aerodynamically dirty.
 
#25
Re: Long Range Ar15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ker2222</div><div class="ubbcode-body">trigger, barrel and ammo......................

If long range is 600 or more, you are going to want bullets in the 75-77grain range. Black hills makes some of the best loadings.

75-77grain bullets mean a quality barrel with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist and a wylde chamber. WOA, Krieger make some of the best barrels. But, the stainless barrels from RRA aren't a bad lower cost option. I don't shoot well enough to notice the difference between RRA and WOA so I shoot mostly RRA stainless match barrels.

Stock "mil-spec" triggers from DPMS,RRA,Bushmaster ect ect will not get you where you want to be. The top of the lined IMHO are the Gieselle triggers......spelling doesn't count. An RRA two-stage is a very good lower cost option. Lots of options. Check the AR trigger thread which I think is still at top of this section.

Also.......use a real stock. Magpul makes an adjustable one....which is heavy and expensive but good. A plain-old A2 will work as well. IF you have to use an adjustable, LMT's Sopmod is about the only adjustable stock that will facilitate a decent, repeatable and stable checkweld.

After that........its all ammo and practice
good luck.

</div></div>
+1

Barrel w/ matching bolt is the single most important item, then scope with good mounts, then trigger.

I recommend a Krieger barrel with Wylde chamber from Compass Lake Engineering or White Oak.

Love my Geissele trigger, best out there.
 
#26
Re: Long Range Ar15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I shoot my Ar @ 1000yds. every Monday night that it's not raining, during Daylight S. time.

This past Monday night I shot 100-4x score on a NRA prone target, off bi-pod. I'm working up/with a new load but after I got centered and stop clicking around I was only down one point in 17 shots, with 8x.

Per 1k, my Recommendation depends on your wallet. If you got tons of money, have an Ar-10 built in .260 rem.

If you have "some" money, get a 6mm AR Turbo 40 degree from Robert Whitly.

the 6.5 Gren was created for down-range energy. The 6mm turbo has better drop/drift tables, but less on target energy @ range. (off the top of my head.)

Me, I'm a poor boy. If I shop around I can buy 100, 80 grain Hornady A-max bullets for $16 +/-. So I stick with .223 REMINGTON.

(never heard of a .223 Win. ?)

You need a 8 twist barrel or faster. (for .223) (7.7 is perfect if you ask me.) 7 is fine but at the cost of a touch of Mv. Also you need a 24"+ barrel. I'm running a 26, if I had it to do over again it would be a 28 with a long gas tube.

I did shoot 1000yds. with a WOA 20" barrel, but I was having to run my loads way hot to be super sonic At 1000, and it was trashing brass.

I recommend, as recommended to me by member "CRIVER" (thanks G.) Frank White @ Compass Lake Engineering. He builds top notch uppers for highpower competitors.

He has Kreiger and Douglass blanks in stock, reasonably priced.

Contrary to other comment the .223 Rem does not have enough Horsepower to justify a 90 grain bullet. It can lauch them, albeit slowly, but their is no gain down range over 80's.

Inside 600 yards use Horn 75's or Berger,Sierra 77's and enjoy the mag feeding and quick follow up shot. Past 600 go to hand feeding 80g. High BC bullets.

When you build it, a JP "adjustable" gas block is nice to have while on the line. With the turn of the screw you can turn the gas block off, and not sling brass way off that you have to find later. You work the action by hand, each round with the charging handle. Brass flips out right there on your shooting mat, in reach, while prone.

Feel free to pm me with specific questions...

</div></div>
+1 to Tresmon too! You have received great advice from everyone, now go out and execute!
smile.gif
 
#27
Re: Long Range Ar15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Um, you need to carefully read what I wrote again. For long range, your gonna need 75-80 grain bullets. No one said anything about 55's. Their long outdated.

Other bullets will not make it, period. Too light and too aerodynamically dirty. </div></div>

Sorry when you said you were shooting the Remington 223 and added the poor part i thought you meant you were picking up the 55 gr bullets from walmart.
 
#28
Re: Long Range Ar15?

guys yall have been outstanding, i appreciate the help and this has giving me the idea i need to proceed. I might be back with some questions here and there, thank you very much
 
#29
Re: Long Range Ar15?

I have an Armalite 223 24" target rifle. This rifle is the most accurate AR I have ever shot. 1/4" groups are not uncommin with 75gr A-Max single loaded. I was shoked at how accurate this rifle was. I have owned several different AR's over the past few years. Rock river, Olympic, Dtech custom, DPMS, And this Armalite is hands down the winner!! Maybe i got lucky and got an exceptional rifle? Doesnt make any difference because this rifle has a permanent home!!! Lee
 
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