Long range beginner

[theogre_52]

I start this thread knowing that there will be a lot of difference of opinion, and that this topic has probably been breached before but I didn’t find it easily.
I would also like to say that I am a hunter that is it. Most of the time I shoot under 200 yards, but I want to try something new. The guns that I shoot hunting are off the shelf, buy it, reload to find a good match, and go hunting. But I would like a little change….
I would like to start Long Range Shooting between 500 and 1000 yards. I would also like to get an AR, I have shot a couple and like to shoot them. I just can’t decide on barrel length, caliber, manufacture, and Build / Buy.
As you can see I am pretty lost.
I was thinking an ar-15 6.5 Grendal, or an ar-10 in a 260 or 308; probably a 22” barrel.
This gun would be used at the range only. But I would like something that I could add to later, change upper to shorter barrel etc (not even sure if this is a good idea). I would like your opinions.
I found another post on glass so that isn’t as big of a concern.
Thanks

 

[CTone03]

Re: Long range beginner

Your biggest decision is whether to go with a regular AR or a 308 size. If it is to punch paper, it won't matter so much, but if slaying critters larger than deer will be in its future, than go with the bigger platform.

For getting into what you're looking for, my suggestion would be an off the shelf AR on the 308 platform if you want to get to 800+.

 

[FCS]

Re: Long range beginner

Les Baer makes a pretty decent AR in 6.5 Grendel/264 LBC-AR, I'd go with the 20" but that is personal preference.
264 LBC-AR is only different in freebore dimension, just can't call it a Grendel.
Possible to just get a barrel from LB and build up your own rifle. I'd suggest you get a bolt from LB, preferably one that has been headspaced to barrel.

I'd go 260 over 308 in large frame AR, better ballistics for reaching out to 1K. Will be a handload only deal vs. factory match ammo for 308 but since you already reload shouldn't be a big deal.

Beauty of AR platform, easy to have another upper and change configuration in seconds.

 

[theogre_52]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your biggest decision is whether to go with a regular AR or a 308 size. If it is to punch paper, it won't matter so much, but if slaying critters larger than deer will be in its future, than go with the bigger platform.
</div></div>

My plan was always to use my 7mm stw for slaying what size criters I plan on slaying... LOL

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Long range beginner

If you are going to 1000yds, I would go with the 6.5 calibers in either platform. My preference would be the 260.

 

[theogre_52]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'd go 260 over 308 in large frame AR, better ballistics for reaching out to 1K. Will be a handload only deal vs. factory match ammo for 308 but since you already reload shouldn't be a big deal.

</div></div>

Just to make sure that I am right here; The 6.5 grendal is the small platform, and a 260 will be a large platform.

What kind of accuracy could i expect out of the 260... 0.5MOA, 0.75MOA?

 

[FCS]

Re: Long range beginner

Correct, 6.5G is small frame (AR-15) and 260 is large frame (AR-10, DPMS LR, etc.).

Possible to get 0.5 MOA from large frame AR but harder to do than with a bolt rifle. ARs are less forgiving of poor follow through or technique.
Custom AR that is, I wouldn't expect 0.5 MOA from a box stock factory AR in 260. Will not say it can not happen but chances are higher with a custom AR to get that kind of accuracy.

 

[Killshot44]

Re: Long range beginner

The 6.5Grendel and its twin the 264LB and the 6mmARTurbo run off the AR15 chassis, the .260Rem, 6.5Creedmore and 6.5x284 - all in the AR10.

The Grendel isn't known for 1K shooting, I'm partial to the 6AR and the 6.5Creedmore myself. It's nice to have so many options and the platform itself is easily customizable.

Good decision!

 

[jbailey]

Re: Long range beginner

If this is a rifle that will only be walked from the vehicle to the range firing line, you want to go AR-10 route. If you are out in the fielding hunting or in a tactical match, than the case for the AR-15 route is more easy to make. An AR-10 is a heavy gun and gets heavier after several miles of walking. And a 22" Grendel is a very capable 1K gun - it can get a 123gr bullet (0.5+ BC G1) going at 2600-ish, which is going to outperform most 308 loads. So if you are going AR-10, you probably want to look at getting a 260Rem or a 6.5 Creedmore.

Next you have to decide if you are going to (1) build it yourself, (2) buy it from a factory, or (3) buy it from a custom builder. The choices get more expensive as you go up. GAP will build you a kick ass AR-10 in 260 but it will cost you a pretty penny. You could buy a Grendel upper from Alexander Arms and get 80% of the performance at 1/3 the price. Building it yourself has the advantage of researching each piece and putting your touch on the rifle although you do need to be motivated and have a little bit of skill and a few tools.

Also, LR shooting is about reading the wind. Start learning now, even before you have the rifle

You read the wind right, you hit; you don't, you miss. Once you start LR, it will make you a much better short range shooter as well - 200 yds will look like 50 yds.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5Grendel and its twin the 264LB and the 6mmARTurbo run off the AR15 chassis, the .260Rem, 6.5Creedmore and 6.5x284 - all in the AR10.

The Grendel isn't known for 1K shooting, I'm partial to the 6AR and the 6.5Creedmore myself. It's nice to have so many options and the platform itself is easily customizable.

Good decision!

</div></div>

The Grendel can absolutely get to 1000 at least as well as a .308, which does fine at that range. In fact, the 6.5 Grendel, because of the extremely high BC bullets, performs better than the .308 ballistically speaking once past about 400 or 500 yards.

I was hitting steel targets at 700 yards with my Grendel the very first (and only) time I shot at that kind of range.

If 1000 is your goal, a 6.5 Grendel is a fine choice for an AR platform round.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Long range beginner

Everyone has an opinion on what's the best AR setup....

If you want no-BS,instead of paying overpriced marketing giant name brands and a good solid AR-click the banner in my signature, or PM scottmilk9 ( click here to PM him ) the owner of SpecializedDynamics. Scott is a long range competitor, hunter and has been building accurate reliable AR platform rifles for a long time, and it would behoove you to talk to him before dropping money elsewhere.
Check his rep at predatormaster forums too, don't just take my word for it.

Oh, and he's been a 'hide sponsor and match supporter for quite a while too....

 

[jbailey]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good solid AR click the banner in my signature, or PM scottmilk9 ( click here to PM him ) the owner of SpecializedDynamics. </div></div>

I liked the SD photo gallery - nice looking rigs. Whose barrels does Scott normally use?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Long range beginner

Depends on the build and availability...maybe he'll pop in with what he's using lately.

I've shot his rifles or seen them shoot lights out with Lothar Walthers and BlackHole just to mention a couple.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: Long range beginner

Steve, thanks. I don't get on the forums as much anymore as business is doing well. I mainly make AR's for the predator hunters and the precision rifle shooters.

I was using Lothar Walther for a long time, but lead times and price is always a breaking point. I found Black Hole Weaponry earlier last year and found they have the accuracy that Lothar Walther has, but the price and lead times are so much better. Now let me say this, Lothar Walther is still a great company, I have no beefs with them, I choose to go somewhere else so I can give savings back to my customers.

My lead times for a rifle/upper are about 6-8 weeks right now and would love to discuss any builds with Snipershide members. Lowlight is gracious enough to let me advertise on his site so I try to do what I can for you guys.

I've competed in several Snipershide Cups/Bash's and other major competitions around the country and always support our shooting sports.

Again, Steve, thanks for the kind words and if I can help anyone even its just a question, feel free to call me at the office anytime.

Scott

 

[mattsnuked]

Re: Long range beginner

I've got one complete AR from Scotty and it shoots lights out. I'm waiting on another from him right now. You will definitely be pleased.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Long range beginner

Big +1 for Scott and Specialized Dynamics. He builds a very good rifle and as you can see is reachable here on the Hide.

 

[MGN]

Re: Long range beginner

Another big +1 for Scott and the rifles he builds. I use one of his .223 builds in three gun matches and have used it to win a local team match. You cannot beat these rifles for all around dependability and accuracy. Also, they look cool.

Specialized Dynamics .223 This is before I had Scott put on the color matched free float tube.

 

[theogre_52]

Re: Long range beginner

Thanks verry much for you sugestions. I am going to contact Scott and feel it out.

I didn't put it in the original post, but I decied to avoid the off the shelf stuff.

Now just the debate to do it myself (I think a freind of mine might help me) or get a custom.

Thanks once again everyone

 

[Killshot44]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5Grendel and its twin the 264LB and the 6mmARTurbo run off the AR15 chassis, the .260Rem, 6.5Creedmore and 6.5x284 - all in the AR10.

The Grendel isn't known for 1K shooting, I'm partial to the 6AR and the 6.5Creedmore myself. It's nice to have so many options and the platform itself is easily customizable.

Good decision!

</div></div>

The Grendel can absolutely get to 1000 at least as well as a .308, which does fine at that range. In fact, the 6.5 Grendel, because of the extremely high BC bullets, performs better than the .308 ballistically speaking once past about 400 or 500 yards.

I was hitting steel targets at 700 yards with my Grendel the very first (and only) time I shot at that kind of range.

If 1000 is your goal, a 6.5 Grendel is a fine choice for an AR platform round. </div></div>

I've seen only one competitor in a 1K match use a Grendel, out of hundreds. There's a reason why.

That said, this gentleman man not have that as a performance requirement. The G is a nice round and it will beat up a .308 in the right hands. Didn't mean to hurt any feelings.

 

[rangertmldr]

Re: Long range beginner

I have a .264 LBC and a 6mmar turbo improved. Probably the best choices in the smaller ar15 platform. The 6mm shoots inside the LBC with its much better velocity, but you have to reload. The LBC has amazing factory ammo (made by black hills)in case you dont want to reload.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Long range beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5Grendel and its twin the 264LB and the 6mmARTurbo run off the AR15 chassis, the .260Rem, 6.5Creedmore and 6.5x284 - all in the AR10.

The Grendel isn't known for 1K shooting, I'm partial to the 6AR and the 6.5Creedmore myself. It's nice to have so many options and the platform itself is easily customizable.

Good decision!

</div></div>

The Grendel can absolutely get to 1000 at least as well as a .308, which does fine at that range. In fact, the 6.5 Grendel, because of the extremely high BC bullets, performs better than the .308 ballistically speaking once past about 400 or 500 yards.

I was hitting steel targets at 700 yards with my Grendel the very first (and only) time I shot at that kind of range.

If 1000 is your goal, a 6.5 Grendel is a fine choice for an AR platform round. </div></div>

I've seen only one competitor in a 1K match use a Grendel, out of hundreds. There's a reason why.

That said, this gentleman man not have that as a performance requirement. The G is a nice round and it will beat up a .308 in the right hands. Didn't mean to hurt any feelings. </div></div>

I have no doubt that there's a reason for it, but it isn't because it isn't perfectly capable of it.

Virtually no factory ammo availability, limited brass choices, proprietary namesake, and the fact that it's only been around for a limited period of time are likely much higher on the list of reasons why it's not more common than its capability.

Not to mention that there are vastly better cartridges for long distance (6.5 Creedmor, 260, etc), just not out of an AR platform.

 

[theogre_52]

Re: Long range beginner

Can you put a DPMS upper on a armorlite lower (large chassis, ar-10)? Is there some list of cross compatibility???

Thanks