Long Range Data on a Short Range

[PBWalsh]

Hi,

So I just saw where a local range, Alabama Precision, has announced some match dates for 2019. I am hopeful I can get into the June or July match (need to get in practice before a match, very new). The range I currently shoot at goes to 375 yards, then has one piece of full size IPSC at 600 yards (geography dictates this).

Tha match has targets from 100 - 1200 yards. How do y’all gather data for longer ranges when limited to a shorter range. Do you just get as close as you can and place faith in your ballistic solver?

Thanks,
PBWalsh

PS: Any tips for a first match? Just got an AIAT and slowly learning and getting trigger pulls in, I currently suck at wind, trying to learn my Weatherflow Weathermeter. Trigger fundamentals could be better as well. By the match, I’ll have bipod, tripod, and a small bag. What am I missing besides skills?

 

[Jimgal62]

Hi,

So I just saw where a local range, Alabama Precision, has announced some match dates for 2019. I am hopeful I can get into the June or July match (need to get in practice before a match, very new). The range I currently shoot at goes to 375 yards, then has one piece of full size IPSC at 600 yards (geography dictates this).

Tha match has targets from 100 - 1200 yards. How do y’all gather data for longer ranges when limited to a shorter range. Do you just get as close as you can and place faith in your ballistic solver?

Thanks,
PBWalsh

PS: Any tips for a first match? Just got an AIAT and slowly learning and getting trigger pulls in, I currently suck at wind, trying to learn my Weatherflow Weathermeter. Trigger fundamentals could be better as well. By the match, I’ll have bipod, tripod, and a small bag. What am I missing besides skills?

Ask questions of experienced shooters, observe their equipment simplicity, video their positional setup if they let you, most people shoot a 6mm or 6.5 caliber.
Do not bother to get any more equipment until you experience a match. If you ask they will give you wind direction and speed for 600 yards and out from their Krestel meters.

Be sure to measure your MV prior to the match with a MG or LR.

The solvers do a great job out to 1000 yards. I have both StrelokPro Pro and TRASOL on my iPhone.

Have fun and make friends.

 

[PBWalsh]

Appreciate it. I know I’ll be at a disadvantage with a .308, but I really enjoy the cartridge and I am not one for an equipment race. Should be getting a PIG0311 Tripod from the wife for Christmas, still need an Atlas though.

Watched a ton of comps on Youtube from Contingency X at how folks set up, looking forward to seeing it live. I think my loval range does have a MS I can borrow, need to get some reloads made first though.

175 FGMM @ 2580 seems to measure properly with my Hornady app at least to 375.

 

[Jimgal62]

Appreciate it. I know I’ll be at a disadvantage with a .308, but I really enjoy the cartridge and I am not one for an equipment race. Should be getting a PIG0311 Tripod from the wife for Christmas, still need an Atlas though.

Watched a ton of comps on Youtube from Contingency X at how folks set up, looking forward to seeing it live. I think my loval range does have a MS I can borrow, need to get some reloads made first though.

175 FGMM @ 2580 seems to measure properly with my Hornady app at least to 375.

I also love my 308, it rocks up to 800 Yards, then the WEZ starts to degrade.

The point about comps is defining and testing your abilities. Identifying weaknesses and strengths, meeting new friends and sharing a cup of coffee and BS.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

If you have an IPSC at 600 that you can paint, you'll be fine for setting up your ballistic calculator for longer ranges. As Jimgal62 said, you need an accurate muzzle velocity - with that, set your zero for 100 yards, use your ballistic calculator to get a 600-yard setting, shoot the 600-yard IPSC on a calm day, see where your hits are, then true your calculator (lots of threads about how to do that).

Wrt equipment race, two things I strongly recommend: A Gamechanger or Tactical Udder bag, and a LabRadar or Magnetospeed chronograph. Well, SOME chronograph, even if it's a $75 Caldwell. Velocities vary among lots of the same caliber, brand and bullet as well as temperature ranges. You can't shoot accurately at distance if you don't know your ammunition's velocity, and the velocities printed on ammo boxes are often wildly optimistic. You Will Need A Chronograph. Now you can go look at all the "Magnetospeed vs Labradar" threads.

The one thing I wish someone had told me before my first match is: Don't turn your scope magnification up past 12-15x, because you'll spend all your time looking for your targets in the tiny field of view at high magnification.

The other thing to practice is getting into a stable shooting position on barrels (upright and on side), holding stable position off barricades at different levels, shooting from weak side, etc. Look on this site and others for drills to run. Do it on the clock. Someday I'll buy a decent timer, but for now I just use the timer on my phone.

As others have stated - have fun and learn.

Edit: Let me back off the "you will need a chornograph" just a little. If you have ready access to a freshly-painted 600-yard IPSC as well as closer targets, you can use your ammo's "box velocity" as a starting point and the infer the actual velocity via the truing process. Just take good notes (record your dope) in various weather conditions.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The first few matches, getting a routine for setting up will be important. A good, quick setup gives you time to do the other things you need for getting good on the target. So good setup should take priority over outcomes until the setups get smooth and you're comfortable with the process. Then, concentrate on outcomes.

Newbs take forever, and experienced shooters ought to see if they can help out at first. Everybody benefits.

Greg

 

[Lowlight]

For me, I would do two things because you will have to use software, which we all do. I travel from CO to the Sea Level States all the time, my data is typical off by .5 Mil at 800 yards.

1. In Software, set your true range zero. So make sure you have a solid 100-yard zero then measure and convert it to a true range zero.

2. At 600 yards draw a waterline on the target and make sure you have a point of aim, a point of impact at that distance.

True the software with both of these in place, however, 308 data is so forgiving don't get too crazy with it. We have a ton of data on the caliber and you can close your eyes and still hit an unknown target with just a basic knowledge of this data.

depending on the software you are gonna change the MV anyway. Technically you want to true your BC at 800 and your MV at 500 or so, but since you have limited access you may find the first outing is just a confirmation of your data using their range vs yours. Still get good weather data as that will help keep the curve in line.

You can adjust based on drop vs MV with most software so a chronograph is not super important unless you reload too. A Kestrel is a better investment

 

[Sheldon N]

How do y’all gather data for longer ranges when limited to a shorter range. Do you just get as close as you can and place faith in your ballistic solver?

Use your range's magnetospeed to confirm velocity, shoot a string of 5-10 rounds to get an average of whatever exact ammo you will be using to compete with.
Put a few rounds on the 600 yard target when freshly painted to confirm elevation is solid. If you can't paint that target, then burn a few rounds in the dirt next to the target. You want to be able to match up your velocity/BC to your actual dialed elevation.
Adjust BC (or perhaps velocity if data is wildly wrong) to get correct data. JBM online calculator is a handy tool for this. Also look up what the "Litz" BC number is for your bullet, should be in JBM or somewhere on the internet. Also read up on what BC others get with the same bullet. You should be close to those numbers.
If you have no chance to send rounds at 1000+ yards before competition, just be ready to spot your miss and make a correction on the fly. Your 600 yard data should get you close but it wouldn't shock me if you were a few tenths off at outer distances.

PS: Any tips for a first match? Just got an AIAT and slowly learning and getting trigger pulls in, I currently suck at wind, trying to learn my Weatherflow Weathermeter. Trigger fundamentals could be better as well. By the match, I’ll have bipod, tripod, and a small bag. What am I missing besides skills?

The "one bag" I would recommend is a waxed canvas game changer. It can replace your rear bag and everything else. No need for big puffy pillows. Probably don't need the tripod either, unless you plan to run optics on it or plan to train and learn how to use it for rear support.

Speaking of optics, that's the one thing that I see missing from your list. I would strongly recommend some sort of magnified optic, whether it's the optics in a rangefinder, or pair of binos, whatever. Even a cheap set of 8x32 or similar would be better than nothing. To be successful you need to look closely at targets and memorize location and also reference points so you can quickly find them. If you don't have an optic someone will let you look at the target beforehand, but IMO you often really need to study the layout for more than a few seconds. Stuff like, third target from the left in that group of 4 targets, the round one not the two diamonds, up from that large green bush and to the right, etc etc. You'd be shocked how much time can be wasted looking for targets or shooting the wrong target when you come up to shoot on the clock.

Watched a ton of comps on Youtube from Contingency X at how folks set up, looking forward to seeing it live.

ConX is a great resource and I enjoy their videos a lot, have watched most of them. One thing I'd caution is that often the better shooters will not be the ones being filmed because they don't want to do interviews or be distracted from their match focus. When I watch most guys featured shooting I cringe a little bit and make mental notes of what not to do. Advice I'd offer is only pay attention to the guys who you recognize their names or who clean the course of fire. Generally, simpler is better... one bag, have a plan, execute smoothly.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[PBWalsh]

I appreciate the replies, I’ll do my best to spot hits on steel at 600 as there is no berm. The steel is hung up about 15’ - 20’ up in a tree (range from 375-600 goes at a downward slope). Nothing but thick woods behind the tree. No chance of seeing misses.

Yeah I do need some binos, another thing for the list. Anyone got any experience with the SWFA 12x ones with the mil reticle?

Frank, I remember hearing in a podcast about the “true 100 yard zero” but cannot remember which episode it was in, do you remember?

Should be able to get back at the rifle range early January. Oh and I am getting the tripod from my wife in a few days for Christmas, I’ll need it for hunting and other things besides comps.