Hunting & Fishing Long Range Hunting

[Old Soldier]

First the facts. This Sept. I killed a caribou. Nothing unusual there. As I skinned it, I noticed a perfectly round hole in its right ham, or butt check if you will. It was well healed. As I butchered the meat, I discovered that it was a bullet hole. The first 2" of the hole contained hair, but all was nicely healed. The bullet went through the right ham and well into the left, ruining a lot of steak, with a scar. Below is the bullet. It is .308 diameter, 1.5" long, and weighs 200 grains, there is no deformation. I believe it is a Barns TSX. I looked it up on their web site. If correct it has a BC of .423. Jabber on various sites discuss this bullet as needing 1700-2000FPS to expand.I don't have a Barns book, but Speer #12 has a 300 Win mag starting at 2800 FPS. At 400 yards it is going 1983 FPS, at 500yards 1804 FPS.
a 30-06 starts around 2400 FPS with this bullet weight , at 200 yards it is going 2008 FPS. IN a 308 you get about the same. What does this tell us about how far away we should be shooting critters?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

That is a Barnes but it appears by the wider nose to be a TTSX, the tipped version.

 

[Old Soldier]

Could be. If so it was going really slow. There is no sign of expansion.

 

[coldboremiracle]

\ What does this tell us about how far away we should be shooting critters?

What most of us already knew, not enough energy upon impact does a poor job of killing. The only way to make it more so is to hit the animal in the wrong place, as your evidence shows.

 

[schmi015]

If using barnes or any copper solid hunting bullet i try to limit my shots to 100-150 yards. I've seen various one expand just like the ads and others at distance that look like the picture above.

 

[wapiti16b]

What most of us already knew, not enough energy upon impact does a poor job of killing. The only way to make it more so is to hit the animal in the wrong place, as your evidence shows.

This , shot selection/placement and KE !
" Mans gotta know his limitations ", both skill and equipment .

 

[Old Soldier]

If you have to limit your shots to 150 YRDS, why use Barnes bullets? I've had great results with Nosler Partitions in a 30-06, on 5 or 6 moose and more caribou. 300 yards is my self imposed limit. We ask a lot of a bullet. We want it to hold together at the muzzle, with a MV of 3000fps, yet expand reliably at half of that. The best I have found are Nosler Partitions. I have to admit to sticking with what I know works and not using much else. So no first hand experience with much else, except Speer Grand Slams with I gave up on. Too rapid expansion and not enough penetration when the target is close.

 

[NateVA]

I don't think it says much at all about how far we should be shooting critters. It reminds me that we should be picking the right bullets and putting our shots in the right place. That's something that should be done at any range.

 

[Rhyno]

This tells us nothing about long range hunting. And without knowing the exact conditions that caused that bullet to end up there it is beyond foolish to deduce anything from it.

 

[spaniel]

All we know is the bullet was massively off target, shed its tip, and failed to expand. Everything past that is pure conjecture.

Two weeks ago I shot an elk at about 700yds with a 338, DRT. Last one I shot with a rifle was 8 years ago with a 300WM, about 40yds closer. Also DRT. Happy to take a close shot if I can but hunting time is precious and I put in the practice and maintain the equipment to take longer shots.

I see a whole lot of hunters wounding and missing game and 50-150yds. It's not about the range, it's about the individual's capabilities.

I don't use all copper bullets because I have firsthand witnessed inconsistent expansion, and occasionally over-expansion, too many times to trust them. If the tip sheared and hole plugged before expansion was initiated who knows what range it was shot from.

 

[DetroitRearView]

Location. Location, location. 20-900 yards 25-30 Elk, many different bullets - including Barnes, SMKs and Scenars. All died neck/heart/double lung or high shoulder. If you can’t make the shot, don’t take it. If the angle isn’t right, wait. If the wind is gusting 25-35 and your animal is 800 yards, get closer or come back the next morning.

 

[Old Soldier]

What we do know is that the caribou was shot in the butt! So what ever range or conditions it was shot at, it was beyond the shooters capabilities. It was also, obviously the wrong bullet for the use he put it to. One must know his and his equipment's capabilities. ( I think some one said that earlier.) What one can do off of a bench, under known conditions and a couple of sighter shots, is not the same as under field conditions. Not enough people practice field shooting positions. Where this animal was shot, you will seldom get a prone shot, because of vegetation. What are your range limitations setting? Kneeling? Offhand? Mine are different depending on position.

 

[predatornut]

We cannot know anything with the information at hand. A hundred different scenarios could have led to that bullet winding up there. We can't even say for certain that that bullet was intended for that animal. If you want to see poor shot placement, go on a whitetail drive where every shot is at a animal running full bore. I will take a longer shot where I can take my time over a close shot that is rushed.

 

[Longshot85]

Like others have said it' truly all about each shooter/hunter ACTUALLY GETTING OUT IN FIELD/FIELD POSITIONS AND SHOOTING in similar, if not the exact same, conditions. I know a family member of a friend who didn't zero his gun, went out to hunt and estimated the distance as 160 yards on a nice buck.....it was 60 yards..........guy makes a bad shot.....tracked a blood trail for 2 hours then it stopped and deer was not recovered. To top it off the person has given my friend grief for "bringing a naval cannon out to hunt" .........its a nice precision rifle switch barrel setup that' always suppressed. So this guy gives my friend grief then goes out and makes a piss poor shot at 60 yards........thought it was 160 yards and never zeroed his rifle (I don' know caliber yet but I'll be sure to update.) I've seen game cam pics of the buck and its prolly a 160 or better whitetail.

So you get countless Jackwagons doing that every year and every season.

Here's a quick rundown of a hunt I just completed. I am familiar with all my equipment.....rifle,scope,dope,weather meter, rangefinder, sling...etc. I worked up a load and verified dope. Load is a 6.5cm 147 ELD-M handload with IMR 4451 going 2858fps. This load has single digit SD AND ES. I've shot it at distance and made hits at 1600 with it. Last week 2 days before opening day I went and verified everything to include:

-100 yard zero
-cold bore shift
-examined brass after firing
-Prone shooting at 100 yard zero on paper
-Prone shooting steel at 587,800,900,1000 and 1115 yards
-positional shooting at 474 and 587 out of back of my truck to simulate my tree stand as best I could
-painted deer silhouettes on the human Ar500 torso targets at 474 and 587 yards

Opening day comes and in the afternoon is where it all came together. In the rain, fog and heavy overcast approaching darkness I shot a small doe at 632 yards cold bore. This is in a 20 ft tree stand with an unstable front bar I'm shooting off of. I did all the prep work, had all needed equipment and knowledge and put in the preparation to make the shot. It all comes down to getting over your ego and KNOWING your limits and capabilities. For those of you who shoot mostly prone shooting and think you can go get in a stand and make positional shot at distance .......I HIGHLY recommend you practice how you would be shooting in field