Longevity of 22LR Barrels

[rick137]

Do 22LR barrels wear out? The short answer is depends as is the correct answer to all ill-posed questions.

So, lets the 10-shot accuracy or precision goals be 0.1 MOA, 0.5 MOA and 1.0 MOA. The rate of fire be the average in competition shooting, whatever that is since I do not know, ammunition be such as SK, Midas+, ......, and cleaning as you specify.

Perhaps all you can say is after XX,000 rounds of ammunition X at rate X and specified cleaning procedure still can achieve 10-shot precision of X.XX MOA.

 

[justin amateur]

I remembered an article read a while back, near bottom of page

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...barrel-last-dan-lilja-offers-some-guidelines/

 

[eddie102870]

i have a couple of used ones i bought that were built in the 40's and 50's that still shoot.

 

[justin amateur]

Lead styphnate primer usually has glass powder in it to provide friction for ignition.
Combine the burn with the glass particles and it will chew up the leade and rifling.
Long term it will abrade the bore to where it's a shotgun. Luckily it takes quite a while.

 

[phidelt208]

Don't all barrels wear out at some point?
I think you make the most important distinction right up front, defining the # of shots and group size.
I would bet there would be a fairly common number if you had a way to study it all things being equal.

 

[Fig]

Apparently 5,000-200,000 rounds. Essentially, because I have a dozen .22 rifles and two dozen .22 pistols your grand children will be shooting them accurately unless you are a .22 competitor and are shooting thousands and thousands of rounds per year like on a comp rifle.

Now, I run my magazine fed bolt .22s (with a heavy barrel) like I do my competition rifles, and cycle the bolt as fast as I can, and it never seems to heat up like center fire cartridges. That said, when my kid rocks and rolls with the 10/22 he can heat that barrel up (more of a pencil barrel).

As is common knowledge, heat is the biggest killer. In a match there is enough time between stages where your heavy barrel cools down sufficiently for it not to be a problem, but you have to pay closer attention when training. I have to admit that I was thinking that the idea of a fan for your barrel was stupid when I read about it here (fortunately I did not make a negative comment). Since ordering the BBQ fan and attaching surgical tubing to it I've found it really does cut cooling time in half, and I am able to get many more shots without hurting my barrel in a range session.

MPA ships their rifles with a fish tank style thermometer on the barrel, and now I've got them on all my magazine few bolt guns. They're a great way to monitor temperature better than by feel.

 

[missed]

My anchuntz had 11,455 on it when I sold it, it was nearly as good as it was new. The guy that bought it was over 16k last time I asked him and it's still shooting about the same.

 

[Roo_man]

Depends how you treat them..

 

[308pirate]

Of the many things to worry about regarding rimfire firearms this one is pretty much at the bottom of the list.

 

[rick137]

Gents:

Many thanks for the interesting comments. Unfortunately most are qualitative despite my attempt to state all of the variables that need to be defined quantitatively. I was hoped some obsessed soul had shot 20,000 or 50,000 rounds and every 1000 rounds had done a very well documented accuracy or precision determination.

308P may be right or may not. The determining factor is your shooting goals and in particular your accuracy/precision goals. To speculate, if your accuracy/precision goal is 1.5 MOA a 22LR barrel will not be a factor in 100,000 rounds or more. However, if it is 0.1 MOA I would like to read comments from competition bench rest shooters on the issue.

Moving on, barrel longevity is not an issue with switch barrel rifles but do you relinquish some accuracy in trading a fixed barrel for a switch barrel? Judging by results of CZ 455s and Quads in 6 x 5 test, not too much.

Anyway enough yak. Vudoo arrives today. Sight it in and do some positional shooting. When competition benchrest arrives will grit my teeth, stop taking Prozac and do some accuracy testing

 

[steve123]

That'l be quazy fun, you can qualify your quad, by quantitatively quantifying the accuracy and barrel life to find the quintessential.

 

[308pirate]

I was hoped some obsessed soul had shot 20,000 or 50,000 rounds and every 1000 rounds had done a very well documented accuracy or precision determination.

Not everyone has this overwhelming need to quantify and analyze every single thing they do in life. Sorry

 

[Rolltide]

I bet the fine folks at Anschutz North America can answer that question...give them a call and ask for Steve Boelter...he's a wealth of knowledge and a great guy...

 

[Bwana John]

I think it is pretty hard to shoot one out, and relatively easy to cause significant damage from overzelious cleaning.

 

[Spartan67]

I would be damm lucky if I could say I wore out a good barrel. It means I shot alot of great groups, and am happy!

 

[rick137]

Perhaps my jocularity has offended some. Certainly not my intention.

Not analysis for analysis sake but for understanding. The more I understand something the more I enjoy it. As an example of the practical benefit of analysis think about WEZ.

I agree with spartan67 about a shooter being happy after wearing out a barrel as result of shooting great groups. However I suspect different shooters have very different ideas what is a great group.

 

[Travelor]

A good friend of mine that shot on both the US Army Marksmanship Team and the US Olympic Team is shooting a Anschutz position gun that has over 100,000 rounds of Eley Tennex. We shoot prone 160 shot match using NRA smallbore targets and have 4-5 Expert shooters in addition to him. He routinely shoots 1599-1600 out of a possible 1600 and beats all the other shooters. So I would say that the average guy can never wear out a 22RF barrel by shooting it. BTW, he only cleans when the groups open up.

I have been told and believe that 22RF barrels are worn out by improper leaning methods!!

 

[rick137]

A good friend of mine that hot on both the US Army Marksmanship Team and the US Olympic Team is shooting a Anschutz position gun that has over 100,000 rounds of Eley Tennex. We shoot prone 160 shot match using NRA smallbore targets and have 4-5 Expert shooters in addition to him. He routinely shoots 1599-1600 out of a possible 1600 and beats all the other shooters. So I would say that the average guy can never wear out a 22RF barrel by shooting it. BTW, he only cleans when the groups open up.

I have been told and believe that 22RF barrels are worn out by improper cvleaning methods!!

ONLY by improper cleaning! Now that is a strong statement. The words only, never and always take no prisoners.

 

[308pirate]

ONLY by improper cleaning! Now that is a strong statement. The words only, never and always take no prisoners.

His example is pretty strong evidence

 

[101stinfantry]

I believe I read on the Anschutz site, that barrel life on their guns averages 50,000 rounds.

 

[rick137]

I believe I read on the Anschutz site, that barrel life on their guns averages 50,000 rounds.

50,000 rounds must be numerous generations of hunting but 1000 rounds/month = 4 years 2 months. If rifle cost $3000 and you cannot replace the barrel, the rifle costs $0.166 per round. Shooting Tenex at $0.34 round, total cost per round is $0.50.

 

[308pirate]

50,000 rounds must be numerous generations of hunting but 1000 rounds/month = 4 years 2 months. If rifle cost $3000 and you cannot replace the barrel, the rifle costs $0.166 per round. Shooting Tenex at $0.34 round, total cost per round is $0.50.

Why don't you email this question to the Army Marksmanship Unit's international rifle team? Not only do I bet they know the answer, I also bet they won't mind sharing it.

I also know for a fact that Anschutz rifles can be rebarrelled by competent gunsmiths because the AMU does it.

 

[skinnj1]

@rick137

While the newer 2013 is easier to swap barrels,the older round 54 match actions aren't that big a deal to rebarrel, guys like Kevin Nevius and Mark Penrod do it all the time. You have to drive out two vertical barrel pins and the barrel is a interference fit that should be pressed out although Border barrels used to have instructions that included a gloved hand, a mandrel and a BFH. Here is a 54 match barrel off my shelf you can see the vertical pin cuts on tennon. Going back some like to thread action but more winning guns IMO are stress free glued w/o the pins.

As to when to swap barrels 30-50 k is a reasonable number to consider that it might be time to consider it. Ego, ability, and availible ammunition performance all play a part. By the time someone is capable of shooting 10.9's consistently , they know if their gear has any problem.

For what it was worth most (all maybe) of Matt Emmons medals were won with Lilja barrels not the factory barrels.

 

[rimfire22lr]

If you are shooting any non-full auto 22lr firearm and wear out the barrel from shooting, consider yourself fortunate indeed. You have been a very dedicated shooter for a long time. You have truly followed your passion. Buy a new gun and feel no guilt. You have earned it.

 

[rick137]

@rick137

While the newer 2013 is easier to swap barrels,the older round 54 match actions aren't that big a deal to rebarrel, guys like Kevin Nevius and Mark Penrod do it all the time. You have to drive out two vertical barrel pins and the barrel is a interference fit that should be pressed out although Border barrels used to have instructions that included a gloved hand, a mandrel and a BFH. Here is a 54 match barrel off my shelf you can see the vertical pin cuts on tennon. Going back some like to thread action but more winning guns IMO are stress free glued w/o the pins.
View attachment 6974594

As to when to swap barrels 30-50 k is a reasonable number to consider that it might be time to consider it. Ego, ability, and availible ammunition performance all play a part. By the time someone is capable of shooting 10.9's consistently , they know if their gear has any problem.

For what it was worth most (all maybe) of Matt Emmons medals were won with Lilja barrels not the factory barrels.

Serge:

A 10.9 must be a score but could you please supply the details. Must be an average since scores themselves are integers.

 

[bab029]

A 10.9 is a 10 that is doesn’t touch the 9 ring. (In Olympic air. Assume same for smallbore)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:10_m_Air_Rifle_target.svg

 

[308pirate]

Serge:

A 10.9 must be a score but could you please supply the details. Must be an average since scores themselves are integers.

10.9 is not an average. See the ISSF rules for an explanation.

 

[rick137]

Gents:

Thanks for the intel. With 10.9 you had better be damn certain the measuring equipment is calibrated. Why not shoot at 25m or 50m?

 

[308pirate]

Gents:

Thanks for the intel. With 10.9 you had better be damn certain the measuring equipment is calibrated. Why not shoot at 25m or 50m?

The answers you want are all in the ISSF rulebooks.

 

[TorF]

I had app 160000 rounds through my Annie 1808 moving target rifle before I changed the barrelled action.
Accuracy was still less than 1moa/10 shots/50m. I did not clean the rifle too much..

 

[BigJimFish]

I have read of competitors shooting barrels for hundreds of thousands of rounds with accuracy enough to compete on the world stage. .22lr's and centerfires are very different for a variety of reasons. Centerfire barrels burn out from powder burning in the throat and this effecting how cleanly and evenly the bullet enters the bore. .22lr's burn faster burning, lower energy powder from a case that is not necked down and therefore they burn little powder in the throat and not at a very high temperature. I understand .22lr's are also less sensitive to how perfect the throat is than a centerfire to the point I have heard stories of rifles shooting very well despite so much wear from shooting that several inches of lands had worn smooth near the chamber. .22lr's also don't wear very much in the barrel because you are shooting an unjacketed soft lead bullet through a bore lubricated with a good build up of wax though, as was mentioned, .22lr primer does contain fine silica abrasive.

On the other side of it, .22lr's are very sensitive about where the bore is the tightest (needs to be at the crown) and how clean the crown is (though all rifles are crazy sensitive about their crowns.)

You can see why the huge pain in the ass that it is too change a .22lr barrel in an Anchutz 54 action was not widely considered a problem though. Few people will ever shoot out a .22lr barrel. Sure, everything wears out, but .22lr barrels don't really wear out in any meaningful way.

 

[TorF]

Anschutz match barrels are almost never worn out at the muzzle.
6" of Anschutz barrel, muzzle end, make the most accurate Hi Standard pistol.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Lilja was saying 15k for a 22lr bbl was the rated life? Seems short to me. One of my BR shooting friends shoots a custom rig in the matches and told me that he burns 60,000 rds per year of Eley black with matches and practice. That is 1150 shots per week. He is retired and shoots every day. What blew me away is that is about $9k/yr ammo budget. My point is that he is the best shooter I know and his rifle is on its 5th yr and is still shooting near perfect BR tgts. They don't shoot groups in BR as there is one rd per bull but to shoot all 10's the rifle must be able to group in the high 1's at 50y. A 0.25" group is 1/2 moa more or less. So, the bbl of his rifle is running 200-300k rds and still shooting well. He cleans it with two wet and two dry patches every card 25-35rds. I think his bbl is a Shilen stainless ratchet.

I have a Winchester Model 52. It is the early pre-A Speedloc action. The serial # would place it at about circa 1932. It is not a pristine example. It has been used and used well for a long time. I am not the original owner. It fact I am the 3rd or 4th owner. I cannot document the number of rounds thru it previously but it still has the original bbl and I have put several bricks of Eley and Lapua thru it myself over the last 4-5 yrs. This 86 yr old rifle is still capable of grouping in the 0.20-0.35" range (1/2 MOA+) more or less when fired from a bench using a lot of ammo it likes in windless conditions. I would estimate the bbl life to be 2-3 lifetimes. I do not shoot as often as my buddy but I am not retired either.

My Remington Mod 540XR is documented on the earlier 6x5 challenge scores. It is from 1974. It is a shooter. But it takes 10-20 shots to start shooting well. If the bbl cools for 2 min, it needs 10 more rds to warm up and start shooting well again. I have another newer one that is just like it and was never fired much at all and is near new condition. It needs only 5 shots to warm up. In my estimation the other Remington bbl is worn out. It still shots well but when cold it shoots erratic. So, it is possible to wear one out. The time and number of rds will be long and numerous.

 

[rick137]

Lilja was saying 15k for a 22lr bbl was the rated life? Seems short to me. One of my BR shooting friends shoots a custom rig in the matches and told me that he burns 60,000 rds per year of Eley black with matches and practice. That is 1150 shots per week. He is retired and shoots every day. What blew me away is that is about $9k/yr ammo budget. My point is that he is the best shooter I know and his rifle is on its 5th yr and is still shooting near perfect BR tgts. They don't shoot groups in BR as there is one rd per bull but to shoot all 10's the rifle must be able to group in the high 1's at 50y. A 0.25" group is 1/2 moa more or less. So, the bbl of his rifle is running 200-300k rds and still shooting well. He cleans it with two wet and two dry patches every card 25-35rds. I think his bbl is a Shilen stainless ratchet.

I have a Winchester Model 52. It is the early pre-A Speedloc action. The serial # would place it at about circa 1932. It is not a pristine example. It has been used and used well for a long time. I am not the original owner. It fact I am the 3rd or 4th owner. I cannot document the number of rounds thru it previously but it still has the original bbl and I have put several bricks of Eley and Lapua thru it myself over the last 4-5 yrs. This 86 yr old rifle is still capable of grouping in the 0.20-0.35" range (1/2 MOA+) more or less when fired from a bench using a lot of ammo it likes in windless conditions. I would estimate the bbl life to be 2-3 lifetimes. I do not shoot as often as my buddy but I am not retired either.

My Remington Mod 540XR is documented on the earlier 6x5 challenge scores. It is from 1974. It is a shooter. But it takes 10-20 shots to start shooting well. If the bbl cools for 2 min, it needs 10 more rds to warm up and start shooting well again. I have another newer one that is just like it and was never fired much at all and is near new condition. It needs only 5 shots to warm up. In my estimation the other Remington bbl is worn out. It still shots well but when cold it shoots erratic. So, it is possible to wear one out. The time and number of rds will be long and numerous.

JG:

Lifetime rounds is a good unit. Somewhat less than Avogadro's number but large.

If you could, would you please ask your friend if there are any good references on benchrest marksmanship. If you are going to run a benchrest, you should know how to use it.

Thanks, Rick

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

I also know for a fact that Anschutz rifles can be rebarrelled by competent gunsmiths because the AMU does it.

Chad Dixon can do it.

 

[skinnj1]

@JG26_26Irish

More than 1 Blieker/Lilja combo has been rebarreled before 30,000. Annie barrels (especially late 60's) have a reputation for very long lives but in the end I stand by my 30-50k estimate to consider it is time to consider (sometimes different than doing).

I am interested in where your friend buys Eley black for 750/case in 12 case quantities, been a
long long time since I could remember it that cheap even factoring in a discount for multiple cases.

 

[LRI]

Do 22LR barrels wear out? The short answer is depends as is the correct answer to all ill-posed questions.

So, lets the 10-shot accuracy or precision goals be 0.1 MOA, 0.5 MOA and 1.0 MOA. The rate of fire be the average in competition shooting, whatever that is since I do not know, ammunition be such as SK, Midas+, ......, and cleaning as you specify.

Perhaps all you can say is after XX,000 rounds of ammunition X at rate X and specified cleaning procedure still can achieve 10-shot precision of X.XX MOA.

When I worked for Anschutz, this is what was typical:

New barrel: Plan on a brick's worth of ammo before it really settles down and runs predictably. This was with std velocty Tennex, Midas, or RWS.

Once broke in, clean it only when the thing either gums up so bad it won't work, or when it starts throwing off call shots. Maybe a dry patch now and then if its been sitting awhile.

As for cleaning, avoid the nasty solvents using ammonia. Were not trying to dissolve anything with a RF. It's a function of getting two dissimilar metals to let go of one another. A medium that has a strong capillary action is what does this well. Kroil has worked for many. I liked a product called TSI 301.

Barrel life: Easily 3-4 cases worth. that's 15-20k rounds. The throat is what eventually gives up the goods. If you look down the bore (healthy, naked eye. Leave the bore scope on the shelf at the store...) and focus on the throat area, it'll start to "frost" over time. This will progressively tend to grow from 6 o'clock and crawl up the periphery of the bore. When it gets to 3/9 position and resembles a smiley face, chances are the barrel will have met its expiration date.

 

[rick137]

Longrifle:

Thanks for the good intel.

Rick

 

[longrange2]

I shot a Win Model 52 on the high school shooting team that both of my parents shot when they were on the team for the same high school in the late 50's. Those rifles surely had quite a bit of use before even they got to shoot them. I don't know how many thousands of rounds those rifles had digested but they still shot great. It was great fun to shoot the thumbtacks holding up each others targets when the coach wasn't looking. We shot in the basement of the high school during the 80's. Now you can't even draw of picture of a gun at school, how sad.

 

[jkrispies]

I'm not answering to your criteria, but I'm a Steel Challenge rimfire rifle shooter. I'm estimating over 40,000 rounds through my 10/22 in speed shooting... probably 30,000+ with the current barrel, which is a Kidd Innovations that started its life as a Lothar Walther blank. The extent of my accuracy testing is to zero it at 20 yards by shooting the bolt head that holds up a steel plate on Accelerator. It still hits the bolt today as well as ever.

 

[jkrispies]

I'd say that the most important factor here would be the quality of the barrel. My first thought at this question was ".22lr is slow moving, low pressure, and way softer than a barrel, so no it won't wear a barrel" but the reality is that anything will wear out with enough use, and lower quality parts will wear faster than higher quality parts. So, yeah, as Rick137 said way up top... it all depends.

 

[jkrispies]

Longrifles Inc, nice answer, by the way!