Gunsmithing Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

[tman300wm]

Guys,

I'm looking at building a .243 Win Tactical/Comp rifle. I'm probably going to use a FN SPR action for the build. My question is: how short can I go on the barrel? I want to run the 115gr DTAC bullets, and I will probably run an AAC supressor as well. Can I get to 1000 yards accuratly with a 20" barrel?

Also, I want to cut way down on the weight factor, so again I was thinking of the 20" barrel with flutes on a 1.20" to .87" taper.

All opinions and comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Tman

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1078695#Post1078695

Or have you been there....

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

you may wish to reconsider your choice of a controlled action....

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Your search fu is much stronger than mine! Thanks... That's some good info. Wonder if I need to do a longer barrel than 20" though?

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Why is that? My other option for the action is a Savage....

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

i truely don't know what the hang-up is on short barrels....get what you like and crank on your can......and go win some matches....YEAH...its going to be nose heavy....so eat your wheaties....

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you may wish to reconsider your choice of a controlled action.... </div></div>

What in the world is wrong with an FN SPR?

 

[Rob01]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

I wouldn't go under a 26" barrel. Mine is a 27".

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

How many feet per sec do I lose on a .243 by choping the the barrel down to 20"?

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

How's your 260 doing? Are you just wanting another rifle?

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

I love the .260 but both of the .260's I built are very heavy guns. The last match I ran was a lot of walking and some low crawling. A lite tactical rifle would have been ideal. I'm also interested in getting into less recoil. I'm willing to trade barrel life for a lite rifle that allows better follow through due to reduced recoil.

My Savage .260 has a break, but even shooting 123gr bullets in it bucks enough that I have a hard time spotting a splash past 500 yards. I'm hopping that a 243 with a supressor will cure that problem. My GAP 260 is a tank of a rifle, but it jumps a lot and it's really finicky on ammo.

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

25-75 fps per inch lost.
If you have a 260, why a 243... kinda like leaving your wife to marry your mother-in-law.
How about a 22/244 IMP, a 1000 yd .224, 80 gr SMKs at 3600 fps.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Like I said, my .260's are both very heavy rifles. I'm looking for a lite weight rifle that won't bust my balls. 243's are fairly tame for recoil, and they do what a 260 will do or better.

The 243 seemed a logical round in that it will not smoke a bore as fast as a 243AI, it's not a wildcat so there are no issues with getting or making brass, and I have 2 other rifles that I can convert to 243 or any cartridge using the 308 size brass with no issues. They feed well, and the numbers on the 115gr DTAC are pretty impressive. Obviously, I won't get stellar numbers if I do a short barrel, but I may do a 26" tube with more taper and heavy flutes. Again, getting the weight down on the overall rifle, low recoil, and readily available components are the primary factors in this build for me.

Comments and suggestions are welcome and encouraged.

Thanks!

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Chad,

Groups are starting to open up a bit on my GAP. The Savage is still a tack driving machine. I'll probably run the Savage at the next match. Honestly, it out shoots the GAP, and has since the day I brought it home....

 

[matchking]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a 260, why a 243... </div></div>

Probably cause a .243 is a bad mofo.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Todd,

Try doing another load work up on the 260 GAP, and see what happens. You might just need to chase the lands if you have some throat erosion (seat the bullet out further). It might get you another 500-1K rounds.

Also, you can use the same rifle(s), and just screw on a 243 barrel. I have thought the same about chopping my 260 barrel later to reduce weight. But, when the rifle heats up, it might walk around on you with a thin barrel. Pros and cons for each set-up.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

I just got off the phone with my smith and he thinks I should try a 22/243. Any thoughts.....

Chad,

Thanks for the advice with the .260. I'll give it a try.

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

While I hate to be a non-believer, here's my $.02

A 244 Remington is a lot better cartridge design than a 243.
I owned a 243 and got real tired of case stretching and brass buildup due to the terrible shoulder angle. My ancient 244 722 has no such issues and shoots one hole groups with 100 gr bullets even though the twist is "wrong" (LOL)

A 260 with the right twist and bullets will blow a 243 off at any range and the recoil difference is tiny.

On the recoil issue, I shoot, carry and hunt with a Kimber 84 in 338 Federal (338/308) which shoot a 185 gr bullet at 2700 fps (think 30-06 recoil in a 6.5 lb rifle). I have yet to be knocked down, bruised or bloodied. It kills everything I point it at within my comfort zone (for it) of 300 yards. The Elk that took this through both shoulders is very dead. The bullet, the rifle.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got off the phone with my smith and he thinks I should try a 22/243. Any thoughts.....
</div></div>

If you were looking at the 22-243, why not a 22-250? I must admit that I know nothing about the 22-243 other than the 3.2 minutes of Googling that I just did, but it seems much like the 22-250 but an "odd-ball" instead. I do believe that both of these shine in longer barrels given typical bullet weights and case capacities. Sure, you CAN shoot them out of shorter barrels, but then I would suggest an alternate caliber.

Or why not a .223? If you're looking to get a lighter rifle than what you have and also want less recoil than what you have, you'll have to give up a significant amount of energy. Unfortunately, I belive you will have to deal with either weight and/or recoil and/or longer barrel length OR go to a smaller caliber.

I guess given the criteria which you have set forth previously, I would have to suggest a .223 with a 18"-20" barrel.

Believe me, I just went through this with a build...trying to decide which caliber to have it built on. I had a hard time deciding on any of the 6.5mm calibers VS the .243. I ended up deciding on the .243 because when ran side by side on a ballistics calculator (at high but reasonable velocities for each caliber and with several different bullet selections), the .243 comes out on top of all of the 6.5mm non-wildcat short action calibers that I thought of (6.5x47L, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Rem to name the major players). The 6.5mm's may shine in other areas (such as barrel life expectancy), but trajectory and wind are not in the 6.5's favor compared the the .243.

Hope my post has been at least somewhat useful.

 

[matchking]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 260 with the right twist and bullets will blow a 243 off at any range... </div></div>

Negative. It should read " A 243 with the right twist and bullets will blow a 260 off at any range."

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

I was also talking to one of the owners/sponsors at a range that I frequent for shooting matches and training. They suggested that the .22cal cartridges might not have the energy to knock down steel plates at the longer ranges. If that's the case, then I may stick with my original plan to do a .243Win.

My smith recommended that I might try a tensioned barrel for this build. Basically a barrel lathed down in diameter, and then forced into an aluminum sleeve. The sleeve provides rigidity and, reduces unwanted harmonics while minimizing weight.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming guys. This has turned out to be a very informative and interesting thread for me so far, and I'm quite open to your opinions and ideas.

Thanks all,

Tman

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Mr. Humble,

I am looking into the 244/6mm Rem. It's an interesting cartridge with considerable attributes.

Thanks for the post,

Tman

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Use the 224 ALLEN MAGNUM......270WSM necked down to 22 cal!!!

Aughta knock the steel plates off at the match....100gr out at 3400fps....yeah.......

224 Allen Mag(100gr ULD RBBT @ +3400 fps

224 Allen Mag

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifl

Think you missed BC
Berger 115 243 .551
Berger 140 6.5 .618

any questions?

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

22/243 will have even more "donut" problems and brass flow that the 22/244.
It also holds less powder so slower.

The best "balanced" 6mm is the 244 Remington but it suffered from the idiot gun writers "back in the day" who thought a 1 in 12 twist would not shoot 100 gr bullets (not that they ever tried!)

The point is moot anyway as the Barnes 80 gr TTSX or 85 TSX will kill any deer sized game you may encounter as well as shoot bughole groups.

240 Weatherby is also an excellent cartridge for a standard 06' length action.

Want to get "out of control"? (I am) 244 H&H, 85 Barnes at 3700 fps. (barrels are cheap!)

 

[Rob01]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Think you missed BC
Berger 115 243 .551
Berger 140 6.5 .618

any questions?</div></div>

Tubb 115 DTAC .585 BC and can be pushed at 3100fps from a .243. Small loss in BC can easily be made up with extra velocity. About 6.5 mils, or 22.5 MOA, to 1000. Barrel life over 3000 rounds. As i said earlier stick with a 26" barrel. I would take velocity over a can any day. No real recoil with the .243 and if you put a break on it you can watch your shots go down range.

You guys crack me up with all the off the wall calibers. Stick with a standard .243 that is everything you need in a tactical comp rifle. Easy to pick up brass for, can be shot in a short action and feed reliably from AI mags, enough energy to knock down steel at 1000, shoots flat and bucks the wind very nicely, can push the heavy bullets fast and do it very accurately. Everything you need it to do. I only had to trim every 2-3 firings also so they aren't really stretching that much either.

 

[JRose]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

I drank the .243 Kool-Aid, and it was goooooood.....

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Nice kids' rifle

 

[Rob01]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Well when I'm an old man maybe I'll have time to mess with obscure calibers. Too busy shooting now.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Tman's rifle will be for tactical matches, so the odd ball calibers are not the best ideas, and definitly not shooting Barnes bullets!

Todd, there was a guy at the Cup shooting a 22-243 rifle. I talked to him about it, and he said it was a laser to 1000. He was pushing an 80 grain pill pretty fast. It's an option, but I like having more weight than 80 grains.
The 243 is a great round for our game. The 105-115 grainers are great. It will shoot flatter than a 260 to 1000. But you do loose barrel life. So, everything is a compromise- higher speeds, more over bore = less barrel life. So, you have to pick the pros/cons that you can live with.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Chad,

I'm seriously thinking of just doing the .243, and running it on a Savage action. I can have my smith cut me 2 barrels for spares when he builds the rifle. I can get a Benchmark barrel for $360.00 and install it my self. Besides, the .243 is so much more attractive than the wildcats. Lapua, Remington,and Norma brass, proven effective bullets (VLD, DTAC), feeds great.

Seems the .243 may be the way to go....

I'm thinking of having my smith do a tensioned barrel for this build. He says it will cut way down on weight, and they shoot just as good as a heavy contour. I'm also looking into a McRees aluminum stock.

 

[matchking]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice kids' rifle</div></div>

Amazing. Even better than the "260 with the right twist and bullets will blow a 243 off at any range" comment.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

High BC and Velocity, while a very nice combo, will never be substituted for skill. High BC and Velocity in the hands of a skilled shooter, we'll, you get the idea. Learn to shoot what you have and be happy.


At the end of the day, the winner will be he who made the fewest mistakes. 2nd place is just the first looser..

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well when I'm an old man maybe I'll have time to mess with obscure calibers. Too busy shooting now. </div></div>

No way Rob---you'll be too busy bloviating about the black-powder shoulder fired howitzer you used to shoot 6x6 Elk a 900 yards and other such ways to win internet big dick contests.

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Please try to at least get your insults accurate! The Elk was 18 paces away......about the same range as the gang bangers in that garden spot where you reside.
Internet dick contests are for young boys who are still trying to establish "creds" (that's NJ talk). Ask your Dad to tell you the story about the old bull and the young bull... it might be instructive to you, ute.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

My apologies. I was mistaken. You are not a pitifully insecure old blow hard--you are simply an asshole!

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

GEE real balls calling a poor old man nasty names. Your MD degree is from where (you are making diagnosis aren't you?)
Better stop drinking that Delaware river water......
I gotta learn to ignore young pups, who never served and live in the asphalt jungle.
BTW, unlike you, I have gone to site populated by ballistic experts who will tell me about the high BC 6mm vs 6.5 mm bullets.
I'll be pleased to report the facts when I get them.
It's called sharing knowledge rather than insults. Adios

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
I want to run the 115gr DTAC bullets, Can I get to 1000 yards accuratly with a 20" barrel?

Also, I want to cut way down on the weight factor, so again I was thinking of the 20" barrel with flutes on a 1.20" to .87" taper.

All opinions and comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Tman </div></div>


Do not use a 20" tube. It's a .243, not a .308. You need room to burn the powder in the smaller bore diameter. And 1000 yards? Dude look at that barrel size. It's somewhat large taper for a .243 cut at 20". Use a smaller taper and add some inches to your barrel so your not wasting anything.

Shooting 115dtacs I'd be more worried about mag length, free bore, and MORE barrel length.



It seems you want an urban, compact little rifle for big long range field work. That's kinda contrdictory.



I wouldn't get anything under a 24". .800" at muzzle for .243win

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad,

Besides, the .243 is so much more attractive than the wildcats. Lapua, Remington,and Norma brass, proven effective bullets (VLD, DTAC), feeds great.

Seems the .243 may be the way to go....
</div></div>


The .243 IS a wildcat isn't it? It's just so old now that it's not thought of as so.

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

No way Rob---you'll be too busy bloviating about the black-powder shoulder fired howitzer you used to shoot 6x6 Elk a 900 yards and other such ways to win internet big dick contests. </div></div>

Awesome use of vocabulary! For those of us who are products of the public schools:

<span style="font-weight: bold">blo·vi·ate (blv-t)intr.v. blo·vi·at·ed, blo·vi·at·ing, blo·vi·ates Slang:
To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner</span>

Now if you can use the word troglodyte it would be very impressive.

 

["Partridge"]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

check out some of the palma rifles there might be somthing that you can use out of their builds.they use light barrels and shot at extreme range.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ask your Dad to tell you the story about the old bull and the young bull... it might be instructive to you, ute.</div></div>

I love to walk down the hill and screw em all

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

OEM actually it only shown he watches O'Reilly's show, not that he is educated.

 

[our gang]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Actually the "ute" from 1977 is prevaricator kinda like Nancy Pelosi..... it's from too much watching MSNBC.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

AZ,

I'm not looking for a long range field rifle, I'm looking for lite weight rig for shooting tactical competitions. The last 4 matches I have been in only had 1 stage where you shot at 1000 yards, and that was just a few rounds down range. Most matches are shot at 100 to 700 yards, with the majority of shots being fired in very "urban" type scenarios at 300 to 500 yards. So, I would say yes, I'm trying to build an "urban" rifle. A lite rifle that will shoot accuratly to 1000 yards is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want a led sled to drag around the field for 2 days. I also don't want a bunch of recoil.

Thanks for the recomendations.

Tman

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Hi if you are looking for a 6mm comp rifle their are realy 2 choices for cases if looking to use a 308 length mag the first is the 6mmXC as you are going to use the 115gr DTAC this would work well the other is the 6.5X47 Lapua case necked to 6mm with no other changes. With a 20" barrel either will launch the 115gr DTAC around 2800fps a 6mmBR usualy gets with a 107gr MatchKing to 2850-2900fps in a 26"+barrel it will get you to 1000 yards plus the shorter cases will allow the cartridge to feed better with the long projectiles and the barrel life is better than with a 243Win. With a 30" barrel and H4831SC and H4350 you can drive the 115gr DTAC to 3000fps.

I would look at at least a 24" barrel but if you want the 20" barrel they work the 243's with 20" barrels realy bark though the 6X47Lapua would be the best choice if you go with the short barrel as for a compromise on barrel life and velocity with the least muzzle blast.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tubb 115 DTAC .585 BC and can be pushed at 3100fps from a .243. </div></div>


I totally believe you, but how are you achieving this?
I'd like to shoot that load when I rebarrel my .243

I shoot 95gr VLDs at 2950fps with 44gr RL22.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Long ass barrel and molly?

George talked about this load. He used Moly bullets if I remember right.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

.243 Win For Tactical Comps We asked GA Precision's George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, "Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I'm sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps--that'll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I'm pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don't have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks--none of that. And the choice in brass is great too--run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you're on a budget, and so you won't cry if you lose some cases in a match. I can get 10-round mags, and feeding is 100% reliable, since the case is identical to a .308 except for the neck. Accuracy-wise, I don't think I'm giving up anything to the .260 Rem or the 6XC." We then asked George if he'd considered using a .243 AI instead: "Yeah, the cases look cool with that 40° shoulder, but I think the standard .243 feeds a little better. And I don't think I really need the extra performance of an improved case. Run the ballistics for my load--115 moly DTAC at 3150 fps. You've got less windage than a 2950 fps 6.5-284, with cheaper brass, cheaper dies, cheaper bullets, and less recoil."

This article from 6mmBR.com is what got me looking at the .243 for a comp gun. I was sold on the .260 Rem prior to this, but am now thinking that I may have been a bit hasty in my decision to do the .260 gun. .243 Win is an attractive cartridge for a number of reasons. Now if I can just get the over all weight of my rifle down......

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Looking at doing a .243 Win tactical/comp rifle

Still interested in barrel length and powder charge...


George PM me your info. Dont worry I'll work up

Please