Looking around looking for some more exotic .17 cal bullets, maybe a little heavier than normal. From what I see Berger has 1 option, there's the tried and Hornady stuff but I want to stretch the little .17 out as far as I can. I am into everything .177 cal for some reason. I know you can do better for longer range shooting but I enjoy shooting the .177 as long as the wind stays under 15mph. Will be target shooting and varminting some.
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looking for .17 cal bullets on the heavy side
- Thread starter jLorenzo
- Start date
Nosler varmageddon 20 gr tipped .183bc
Hornady Vmax 25gr ..230 bc
Berger varmint 25gr .152 bc
I would go vmax based on what I found on limited searching but thats really all I know about them. Im interested to see what there is too, Ive thought about a 17 or 20 to tinker with myself.
Hornady Vmax 25gr ..230 bc
Berger varmint 25gr .152 bc
I would go vmax based on what I found on limited searching but thats really all I know about them. Im interested to see what there is too, Ive thought about a 17 or 20 to tinker with myself.
Me too. Thinking about 17 hornet, 17 tactical, maybe 17 practical if that's even a thing, 20 practical would be cool too.
Also found 30gr Kindler I think the BC is like .270 don't quote me on that also people are talking about a 30gr berger but I've never seen that.
A guy on another forum say the 30s are great out of his 17/204, which also sounds like a cool caliber but really doesn't make too much since, using that case I'd stick with plain .204.
A guy on another forum say the 30s are great out of his 17/204, which also sounds like a cool caliber but really doesn't make too much since, using that case I'd stick with plain .204.
I was just shooting my 17Rem with the 30 golds a few hours ago. The turkey at 400M was too easy in 5-7 mph full value winds. In my rifle they do shoot better than the 25gr Hornady's.
Not trying to be a prick here, but (and yes, the wildcat is slightly different) a 17/204 is the same as a 17 Remington...which the .204 Ruger was based on. Todd Kindler can tell you the back story on how it came to be; a humorous, albeit ironic, development screw up.
Your biggest concern with shooting heavy 17's is going to be barrel twist.
Hmm. I thought 204 was based off 222mag, I presumed wrong? Also 17-204 can send bullets 150 fps faster than 17Rem.
The problem with both those cartridges is quick throat torching and short barrel life, along with frequent cleaning due to excessive fouling. The three 17 Rems I've had were somewhat hard to tune a load for, this last one only working well with a warm load and only shooting those golds at a certain depth. I should have tried another cartridge rather than 17 Rem this time around but it's hard when the dies and brass you've had for years are on the shelf saying 'use me, I'm paid for.
I liked 204 and think it's a better alternative than hot 17's.
The most sensible cartridge, as far as reading about it, I haven't built one yet, is 20 Vartarg or 20CCM which is the improved version/AI - 17/19 grains of powder, 32gr bullet, 3700/ 3850 fps, barrel doesn't get so hot so quick, easier on throat, long barrel life. I wish I had done one of these instead, next time.
Just in case anyone is interested in the hottest of 17 wildcats, I have 17-6.5 Grendel reamer, go gauge, and form dies, all brand new that I'm selling. It would send a 25 grainer at 4400 fps.
The problem with both those cartridges is quick throat torching and short barrel life, along with frequent cleaning due to excessive fouling. The three 17 Rems I've had were somewhat hard to tune a load for, this last one only working well with a warm load and only shooting those golds at a certain depth. I should have tried another cartridge rather than 17 Rem this time around but it's hard when the dies and brass you've had for years are on the shelf saying 'use me, I'm paid for.
I liked 204 and think it's a better alternative than hot 17's.
The most sensible cartridge, as far as reading about it, I haven't built one yet, is 20 Vartarg or 20CCM which is the improved version/AI - 17/19 grains of powder, 32gr bullet, 3700/ 3850 fps, barrel doesn't get so hot so quick, easier on throat, long barrel life. I wish I had done one of these instead, next time.
Just in case anyone is interested in the hottest of 17 wildcats, I have 17-6.5 Grendel reamer, go gauge, and form dies, all brand new that I'm selling. It would send a 25 grainer at 4400 fps.
I've played with a few 17 calibers in my day. There are some good ones out there; 17 Remington, 17 Fireball, 17 MK IV (almost same as 17FB) an all launch little bullets at his speeds. I currently own a CZ527 rebarreled to 17 Ackley Hornet. The 24" barrel sends 20 grain bullets at over 3,700 FPS using less that 13 grains of powder. It has made me forget to even take a 17HMR when we make the trek to PD towns every summer.
As already stated above, heavier than the 25 grain bullet will require a faster than the normal barrel twist and they are not always easy to find.
As already stated above, heavier than the 25 grain bullet will require a faster than the normal barrel twist and they are not always easy to find.
Agreed, 204 is based on the 222 mag, 17 remington uses a slightly short .223 case according to the reamer prints ive looked at.
I played with a .17 fireball quite a bit. A beautiful gun on a wichita action that was built by my mentor. Had some pretty good days in the varmint fields with that one. I’ve also done a lot of shooting with the 20 practical, and Im pretty much sold on them. Ever since lapua brought out .221 brass I've wanted to do something with it, because domestic fireball brass (.17 or .22) is garbage. I drew up a 20-221 fb reamer specifically for lapua brass, and had it made by manson. Just a standard .221 necked to .20 with no other changes. I used it to re-barrel the wichita/.17fb about a month ago with a 23” Krieger (set back my old 20 practical barrel). It’s just awesome. 32’s at 3700 fps, and 39’s at 3450. The .17 was capable of fine accurracy, but it still had a slightly finicky nature to it. Maybe the tiny bore or bullet uniformity? The .20-221 suffers none of that. Day in day out it just hammers.
To your question about 17 bullets. If you go over to Saubier.com, you'll find everything you need. Several custom bullet makers are turning out heavy 17’s. Make sure you have a barrel that will stabilize them.
I played with a .17 fireball quite a bit. A beautiful gun on a wichita action that was built by my mentor. Had some pretty good days in the varmint fields with that one. I’ve also done a lot of shooting with the 20 practical, and Im pretty much sold on them. Ever since lapua brought out .221 brass I've wanted to do something with it, because domestic fireball brass (.17 or .22) is garbage. I drew up a 20-221 fb reamer specifically for lapua brass, and had it made by manson. Just a standard .221 necked to .20 with no other changes. I used it to re-barrel the wichita/.17fb about a month ago with a 23” Krieger (set back my old 20 practical barrel). It’s just awesome. 32’s at 3700 fps, and 39’s at 3450. The .17 was capable of fine accurracy, but it still had a slightly finicky nature to it. Maybe the tiny bore or bullet uniformity? The .20-221 suffers none of that. Day in day out it just hammers.
To your question about 17 bullets. If you go over to Saubier.com, you'll find everything you need. Several custom bullet makers are turning out heavy 17’s. Make sure you have a barrel that will stabilize them.
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Reed's ammo makes some that are supposed to be pretty good. I keep tossing the idea of a 17/223 upper around for predator hunting and they would be the bullets I would try first.
Steve123, You're correct (not enough coffee first thing in the morning). My post should read "which the .204 Ruger was based on, via the 222Rem Mag, also the basis of the 17 Rem."
The 17 Rem is not based on the .223, though it can be used in a pinch, albeit with a short(er) neck.
Agreed as well on the .20 Practical/Tactical for launching heavier bullets at high speeds. I had a 20 Tac made not long have Todd K and (I forget the other gentleman's name) published an article in Shooting Times. Back then Douglas was the only game in town for barrels, and bullets were pretty scarce (Berger and Hornady were it IIRC). Anything else was a completely (garage shop) custom bullets route. That 20 Tactical of mine is/was a killer in the PD towns.
I also have a 17 AH, built on a Browning Micro Medallion by Greg Tannel(sp?). Sweet little rig, and about as perfect as you can get for a fox hunting, fur friendly rifle. Plus, its a Browning, so the wood on that rifle is a sight to behold. I have a 17 Mach IV as well, though it is a tight necked version (not what I ordered, but what was delivered), that is also insanely accurate, but a PITA to load for. She doesn't get shot much.
I've got a buddy that shoots a .20 Vartarg, and with LC formed brass, gets insane velocities; well over published data. The guy was dinging stuff out to 600yds with that little bugger. Definitely raised a few eyebrows over at Saubiers.com. The Vartarg is where the toughness of LC brass really stands out.
I've been messing around with "sub-calibers" since the late 90's, and its been interesting seeing the growth in popularity and support by the industry (not unlike the LR game of late).
BTW, H-322 is about perfect for the 20 Practical/Tactical as powder.
The 17 Rem is not based on the .223, though it can be used in a pinch, albeit with a short(er) neck.
Agreed as well on the .20 Practical/Tactical for launching heavier bullets at high speeds. I had a 20 Tac made not long have Todd K and (I forget the other gentleman's name) published an article in Shooting Times. Back then Douglas was the only game in town for barrels, and bullets were pretty scarce (Berger and Hornady were it IIRC). Anything else was a completely (garage shop) custom bullets route. That 20 Tactical of mine is/was a killer in the PD towns.
I also have a 17 AH, built on a Browning Micro Medallion by Greg Tannel(sp?). Sweet little rig, and about as perfect as you can get for a fox hunting, fur friendly rifle. Plus, its a Browning, so the wood on that rifle is a sight to behold. I have a 17 Mach IV as well, though it is a tight necked version (not what I ordered, but what was delivered), that is also insanely accurate, but a PITA to load for. She doesn't get shot much.
I've got a buddy that shoots a .20 Vartarg, and with LC formed brass, gets insane velocities; well over published data. The guy was dinging stuff out to 600yds with that little bugger. Definitely raised a few eyebrows over at Saubiers.com. The Vartarg is where the toughness of LC brass really stands out.
I've been messing around with "sub-calibers" since the late 90's, and its been interesting seeing the growth in popularity and support by the industry (not unlike the LR game of late).
BTW, H-322 is about perfect for the 20 Practical/Tactical as powder.
Tell your buddy to give the lapua .221 brass a try for his Vartarg. Stout as hell, and uniform. Im sure his Lc brass will outlast his barrel, but when it comes time to get new brass, he’ll save all the forming time. I havent sorted or trued any components and my SD’s are usually high single digits, which is more than I can say for the domestic brass 17 fb it replaced.
Im a big fan of h322 in my 20P as well.
Supersubes,
I'll tell him (ab_bently on saubier's), but I doubt he'd do it. He's a cheap bastard (which he openly admits).
We used to predator hunt together out on Camp Pendleton before he went back to Ohio and hung out his shingle as a gunsmith; he's good guy.
I'll tell him (ab_bently on saubier's), but I doubt he'd do it. He's a cheap bastard (which he openly admits).
We used to predator hunt together out on Camp Pendleton before he went back to Ohio and hung out his shingle as a gunsmith; he's good guy.Darnit, wouldn't you know it!!!! I only have 700 or so left. At the rate I shoot my 17Rem that'll be years so at least I won't have to worry about it for a while.
Wichita, 20-221 fb, 23” krieger, Mcmillan marksman. Cute little short 700 length 3-lug action with a coned breech.
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Bighorn tl-3, 20P, 19” krieger, MBM brake, masterpiece BA lite. The other rifle is a Howa 1500 with an identical barrel and a RDP brake.
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Bighorn tl-3, 20P, 19” krieger, MBM brake, masterpiece BA lite. The other rifle is a Howa 1500 with an identical barrel and a RDP brake.
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Those are all a pleasure to look at! Thanks
What are you hunting in the area the pics were taken of the 20P's?
What are you hunting in the area the pics were taken of the 20P's?
Varmint cartridges I've had so far are, 6mm-284, 6x47, 243, 6mm Rem, 6mmBR, 220 swift, 22-250, 223, 218 BeeAI, 22 Hornet, 20x47, 204, 17 Rem and 17 Hornet AI. Do all has been 6x47 with 204 and 17 Rem close behind.
I saw a Panda drop port F-class action I really want!
I saw a Panda drop port F-class action I really want!
Doesn't Chan Nagle make a 37gr VLD for something like a 6 twist barrel?
To +1 The Saubier.com site.
Great source of info
To +1 The Saubier.com site.
Great source of info
Wow you giys, awesome replies. I was getting ready for "why don't you use a .223 or .243". Which does make sense, I just have a fascination with stuff in .17 and .20 cal.
I think bullet uniformity does play a big role with the .17 stuff. I have notice even with a .17 HMR that most Vmax bullets are far from being conically perfect, shooting the .17gr speer TNT bullet makes a big difference in accuracy for me but rim fire being what it is I am looking to move to a centerfire .17. Probably hornet maybe .17 rem. in order to be able to work up loads and have a more accurate and consistent gun.
I think bullet uniformity does play a big role with the .17 stuff. I have notice even with a .17 HMR that most Vmax bullets are far from being conically perfect, shooting the .17gr speer TNT bullet makes a big difference in accuracy for me but rim fire being what it is I am looking to move to a centerfire .17. Probably hornet maybe .17 rem. in order to be able to work up loads and have a more accurate and consistent gun.
Could we possibly get some pics? Of everything lol? Gun, bullet, geek stuff, etc?
Sweet, sweet setups my friend. So the 20 practical is basically .223 necked down to 20 correct? I'm not super into wildcats (yet). How would you compare the performance to a .204 ruger? I like the idea of using .223 brass, being so widely available and cost effective.
"I decided the best thing to do for my purposes was to simply neck down the .223 Rem case and make a 20-223. I already had the dies, the brass, and a rifle that would feed it perfectly. I decided to call the cartridge the 20 Practical because as you will see in this article and the accompanying side-bars, it truely is a very practical cartridge."
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek061.html
Thats exactly what it is and likely what I would do if I went small. I just cant decide if I want to ai my 223 or go 20. Ill probably do neither for a long while though as I already have guns I havent developed loads for. No need to spin up a new barrel to just set it in line.
Like Spife said, thats exactly what it is. It was important to me that whatever I chose would mag feed. The .204 will feed out of my aics mags, but only with 7 rounds(vs. 11 for a .223 based case). Also, I could use lapua brass for the 20p. The 204 is faster, but not by much. The 20p above, with it’s short barrel, wasnt meant to break any speed records. I wanted it to be a little more portable and handy. I honestly didnt hit any less this year with the above gun than I did last year with a 26” 20p, and in fact I reset my personal distance record with a .20 this year to 530 yds. Since we mostly shoot holds with these cartridges(as opposed to dialing), the gun just didnt “feel” any different from the faster gun. We do the lions share of our shooting between 150 and 300 yds. I took two shots about 20 minutes apart at a dog that kept playing whack-a-mole at a lasered 530 yds, and connected on the second shot. That was pretty satisfying. Gunnisons prarie dogs are about 25% smaller than the blacktailed variety.
Also bagged one of these bad boys!
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With all your local knowledge, I should be beating down your door!
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Were you at the boquillas ranch?
We used to have hordes of pd's when I was young. Plauge, poisoning, over hunting, really reduced the populations. It's been two years since I shot a pd. I'd have to go scouting to find a good place again.
I have shot there, but since they changed their policies and started charging, I havent been back.
Here's my CZ527 in 17R with it's super lightweight 17.5" barrel. 30's at 3500 fps.
The bullets from left to right in grains, the Kindler HPBT 30gold, 25vmax, 25 Hornady HP, 20vmax, 15 Berger, 20 cal 40, and 22 cal 55FMJ.
The bullets from left to right in grains, the Kindler HPBT 30gold, 25vmax, 25 Hornady HP, 20vmax, 15 Berger, 20 cal 40, and 22 cal 55FMJ.
Like Spife said, thats exactly what it is. It was important to me that whatever I chose would mag feed. The .204 will feed out of my aics mags, but only with 7 rounds(vs. 11 for a .223 based case). Also, I could use lapua brass for the 20p. The 204 is faster, but not by much. The 20p above, with it’s short barrel, wasnt meant to break any speed records. I wanted it to be a little more portable and handy. I honestly didnt hit any less this year with the above gun than I did last year with a 26” 20p, and in fact I reset my personal distance record with a .20 this year to 530 yds. Since we mostly shoot holds with these cartridges(as opposed to dialing), the gun just didnt “feel” any different from the faster gun. We do the lions share of our shooting between 150 and 300 yds. I took two shots about 20 minutes apart at a dog that kept playing whack-a-mole at a lasered 530 yds, and connected on the second shot. That was pretty satisfying. Gunnisons prarie dogs are about 25% smaller than the blacktailed variety.
Also bagged one of these bad boys!
I see you shot the ultra rare Prairiedogalope. I hope you donated it to science,
Like Spife said, thats exactly what it is. It was important to me that whatever I chose would mag feed. The .204 will feed out of my aics mags, but only with 7 rounds(vs. 11 for a .223 based case). Also, I could use lapua brass for the 20p. The 204 is faster, but not by much. The 20p above, with it’s short barrel, wasnt meant to break any speed records. I wanted it to be a little more portable and handy. I honestly didnt hit any less this year with the above gun than I did last year with a 26” 20p, and in fact I reset my personal distance record with a .20 this year to 530 yds. Since we mostly shoot holds with these cartridges(as opposed to dialing), the gun just didnt “feel” any different from the faster gun. We do the lions share of our shooting between 150 and 300 yds. I took two shots about 20 minutes apart at a dog that kept playing whack-a-mole at a lasered 530 yds, and connected on the second shot. That was pretty satisfying. Gunnisons prarie dogs are about 25% smaller than the blacktailed variety.
Also bagged one of these bad boys!
What is that? I'm assuming that's something behind the pdog making it look like antlers.
When you say Gunnison, do you mean in CO? I've been trying to find places to shoot pdog in Colorado for awhile, being in Boulder county we have tons but location usually prohibits varminting.
Steve calls them Prairiedogalope, but in these parts we call them Prairiebeasts.
Gunnison’s as in the species of Pd found in AZ.
Gunnison’s as in the species of Pd found in AZ.
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