Looking for 45-70 subsonic recipe

[SdotW]

Hello,

I purchased a 1895 Marlin Trapper and I'm looking for a subsonic recipe. I currently have the following items.

• cci Large Rifle Primers no. 200
• Starline 45-70 brass
• 405 grain polycoated bullets
• IMR 4198

Does anyone know how many grains of the IMR 4198 to make this subsonic out of a 16" barrel?

Additionally, will I have to fill the 45-70 case up with something to fill the empty space because of the reduced powder load?

 

[fpgt72]

I can't help you too much. My 45-70 is a trapdoor so I search for loads with a very low CUP numbers, low teens if possible. I use a missouri bullet 405 and have had great luck with those.

My load is quite subsonic, and I found it over on loaddata.com. It is not that expensive and suggest taking a look at it, it is a great resource for old and outdated cartridges. Mine is a VV powder that gives me low 900fps numbers and a 13k CUP (IIRC).

Give that site a check out, I think you will find what you are looking for. IIRC it is like $30 for a year.

 

[HOOFER]

Hello,

I purchased a 1895 Marlin Trapper and I'm looking for a subsonic recipe. I currently have the following items.

• cci Large Rifle Primers no. 200
• Starline 45-70 brass
• 405 grain polycoated bullets
• IMR 4198

Does anyone know how many grains of the IMR 4198 to make this subsonic out of a 16" barrel?

Additionally, will I have to fill the 45-70 case up with something to fill the empty space because of the reduced powder

I would be cautious as that powder won’t give much case fill. Lots of guys are using wads for that type of thing.

I’d run a heavier bullet. Not sure if Hornady will publish its load data for its SUBx bullet. I doubt it.

 

[SdotW]

I'll probably have to go to a 500 grain bullet and change powders.

 

[chutinlead]

Lyman has a cast bullet reloading manual with trapdoor loads for imr 4198 that are subsonic. Another good powder for reduced loads is 5744.

 

[paulrem308]

Looking at hodgdon website. Looks like trailboss is the ticket. Let us know how it works out and what can you are using. I really want to know

 

[Huskydriver]

Trail boss big heavy bullet

 

[SdotW]

It's definitely looking like Trail Boss will be a solid choice. I'll just use this IMR 4198 for supers.

 

[redbullitt]

Agreed with above posts. Trailboss may be the easiest way. May not even have to go super heavy on the bullet. Wont know for sure until you chrono a few.

I have used unique and trail boss with success from a 16 inch barreled encore. You may have to be careful if your pressure ceiling is for a trapdoor.

Lever Gun Performance Studies

Reloading Data for cast bullets, result of lever gun accuracy studies on cartridges: 357 Magnum, 41 Rem Mag, 44 S&W, 44 Russian, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 45-70 Goverment, Pistol Powders, Large Capacity Rifle Cases

gmdr.com

Those guys have some helpful info for loading weird stuff lol.

 

[Bandit320]

Lyman #45.

 

[TheChief]

Just out of curiosity, what load did you end up going with? I've got a brand new Marlin trapper that i'm setting up to shoot heavy subs. Gonna run a Bushwhacker 46 can and a 1-6 LPVO on it.

 

[SdotW]

Just out of curiosity, what load did you end up going with? I've got a brand new Marlin trapper that i'm setting up to shoot heavy subs. Gonna run a Bushwhacker 46 can and a 1-6 LPVO on it.

I have not chosen a load. I have not been able to find trailboss or unique powder.

 

[Shoot1st]

Check out http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

 

[KYAggie]

I have not chosen a load. I have not been able to find trailboss or unique powder.

You might have an easier time finding 5744. I know I was able to get some on the last 6 months and it should work especially with a heavy bullet.

 

[tekmann2377]

 

[tekmann2377]

I would really recommend trying to track down flaky, fast burning powder like Unique, Red Dot, or Bullseye if you want to run light bullets subsonic. These are really the only option for a super quiet sub load now that Trailboss is not available. I have also used N340 with good success.

In terms of other options for heavier bullets - I would consider looking at a stick powder like one of the Vihta N110-120 series. These are easy to ignite in reduced loads and tend to burn fairly cleanly. I can say from experience that ball powders such as H110 often suffer from inconsistent ignition with low case fill and I do not recommend them.

 

[redbullitt]

Trailboss or something similar will make this very easy.

Have seen unique do well here too.

Tougher if you can't find them. Cream of wheat filler has been used.... plenty of stories about chamber damage etc so I usually avoid that to be honest. Dacron pillow stuffing may be workable as well if you go that route. I'd use it before the breakfast cereal filler lol.

What powders do you have available?

Can we go heavier on the bullet and take up case volume?

Proper powder selection and bullet weight are really the best avenue of attack here.

 

[TheChief]

I would really recommend trying to track down flaky, fast burning powder like Unique, Red Dot, or Bullseye if you want to run light bullets subsonic. These are really the only option for a super quiet sub load now that Trailboss is not available. I have also used N340 with good success.

In terms of other options for heavier bullets - I would consider looking at a stick powder like one of the Vihta N110-120 series. These are easy to ignite in reduced loads and tend to burn fairly cleanly. I can say from experience that ball powders such as H110 often suffer from inconsistent ignition with low case fill and I do not recommend them.

H110 with a low case fill can turn into a bomb pretty easy. Unique has been pretty easy to find lately. I'd give that a shot. I might try it when I get home in 2.5 weeks. I've got a good supply of it I use in 44 Special. Gonna use it with Acme 405 grain powder coated cast. Trailboss is non existent anymore. Really can't be found and I don't think its even made anymore. I've also got a bunch of Bullseye I got for free. I might try that out too.

 

[SdotW]

H110 with a low case fill can turn into a bomb pretty easy. Unique has been pretty easy to find lately. I'd give that a shot. I might try it when I get home in 2.5 weeks. I've got a good supply of it I use in 44 Special. Gonna use it with Acme 405 grain powder coated cast. Trailboss is non existent anymore. Really can't be found and I don't think its even made anymore. I've also got a bunch of Bullseye I got for free. I might try that out too.

If you try the unique and bullseye, please come back and let me know how it goes.

 

[Atomic_Lobster]

I've been shooting a Lyman 500 gr cast round nose with unique in my 45-70
It is a dirty powder
I've switch to 2400 and it burns much cleaner but roughly double the powder
I use the loads listed in Lymans #45 hand-load book the charges are posted in reply #10
Also I paper patch my boolits

 

[TheChief]

I've been shooting a Lyman 500 gr cast round nose with unique in my 45-70
It is a dirty powder
I've switch to 2400 and it burns much cleaner but roughly double the powder
I use the loads listed in Lymans #45 hand-load book the charges are posted in reply #10
Also I paper patch my boolits

I find when I use Unique I add a heavy crimp. It tends to help it burn a little cleaner in my experience. Same with HS6.

 

[Atomic_Lobster]

I don't crimp any of them
I mold cast at .457 then I size them to .452
The paper brings them back to .457ish
the slip into the case with a moderate push by hand

 

[KYAggie]

Here are some screenshots from Hodgdon’s website showing some AA powders in stock that might work if you use a 500+ grain bullet.