Advanced Marksmanship Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

[ColtJ]

Hello,

I've just recently finished my first precision based rifle. I "think" i've done a good job at it...

Over the past few weekends i've made a few trips to the local range and shot it at 100 yards. The best I could achieve were 1 to 1.5 MOA groups. Based on what I built I would like to have done a bit better. Initially I gave all fault to user error as that is the cause 99% of the time.

During my trips i've met and made a few friends at the local range and gotten some good advice but our ideals for our rifles are a bit different. They are purely bench rest shooters and have nice setups for that purpose and that purpose alone. I did not build a bench rest rifle but that is the avenue that I have to test the system so I have been shooting under those conditions but would like to know if given my current hardware and conditions if i've reached my limits.

I am a bit lost as there seem to be too many variables.

<span style="font-weight: bold">First - Ammo:</span>
I have seen first hand that this is a big deal (bigger than I originally thought). I had some 75gr Black Hills (blue box) hollow point ammo and could not get anything better than ~1.6 MOA. As I got ready to pack up and leave, I started chatting with another shooter. He had a very nice bench rest setup and we switched 10 rounds as well as shot each others rifle's.
The results were the same, I shot great sub MOA groups with his rifle and a much tighter group with his ammo, while his rifle did not do well with my ammo as neither did mine. He was shooting Ultra Max 55 gr V-Max ammo. which according to him is cheap ammo by name and reputation.

Right after I purchase some 60 gr Black Hills (blue box) V-Max ammo. Best I can get with this 1 MOA but average is about 1.3...

Plan to get some other ammo from other manufacturers to figure out what works best but before I do so I would like some other questions answered first...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Second - Bipod:</span>
I am using a Harris Bipod with the swivel head on an Arms throw lever adapter, basically it can lean left or right. Seems like a good thing to have but i've received some pointers on it and have been told that will give me trouble, given that it can lean and that will throw me off a bit.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Third - Optic:</span>
I am using an SWFA-SS 3x9 and understand very well that this is not the best bench shooting optic but I figured it should be good enough to test the rifle at 100 yards. Obviously my bench rest shooting friends recommend much more magnification.

While I am not second guessing or downplaying the advice I have received, I am looking for a few more pointers and advice. Basically you do not buy a car after reading one review or talking to one person...

While I am sure it is user error and the fact that I have only put ~250 rounds down range with this particular rifle, I would like to make sure the hardware is fine before sending more rounds down range; wasting ammo. Or that I am at least on the right path first.

Other than the ammo which I know I need to figure out, what else could prove to be a hinderance other than me...?

I wonder as I have receive a lot of compliments on the rifle as well as my shooting from other shooters; both beginners and experts. (I have no proof that these experts are what they claim or any way to verify their claims but I have no place to question another mans words). For some reason they think I am some kind of expert or at least pretty good while I have done my best not to give that off as it would be false, they think i'm being humble when I tell them I am new to shooting, which I am.

Or am I concentrating too much on the groups...?

<span style="font-weight: bold">I have also shot at half inch dots in an effort to psyche myself out and achieve better groups but get the same results. </span>

Any advice, recommendations or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Specs on rifle: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2486012

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

For starters, this kind of troubleshooting is difficult to do over the web.

Are you shooting from a bench or prone?

ARs can be tricky for the new shooter to start out with. They tend to jump around a bit much, and are very dependent on proper trigger control, position and natural point of aim, and follow through is essential. Focus on the base fundamentals and exaggerate them to really make them perfect.

The ammo could be the issue. Your 1/7.7 Kreiger should handle the heavy stuff just fine, but it could always be that your rifle just doesn't like the BH brand.

And yes, you're focusing too much on groups. Stretch its legs out a bit and shoot some silhouettes some. Have fun with it.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For starters, this kind of troubleshooting is difficult to do over the web.

Are you shooting from a bench or prone?

ARs can be tricky for the new shooter to start out with. They tend to jump around a bit much, and are very dependent on proper trigger control, position and natural point of aim, and follow through is essential. Focus on the base fundamentals and exaggerate them to really make them perfect.

The ammo could be the issue. Your 1/7.7 Kreiger should handle the heavy stuff just fine, but it could always be that your rifle just doesn't like the BH brand.

And yes, you're focusing too much on groups. Stretch its legs out a bit and shoot some silhouettes some. Have fun with it. </div></div>

I understand it can be hard to diagnose these things online; hopefully, i've given enough info.

I've been shooting from the bench but plan to start shooting from the prone position from now on.

Although the rifle does not bounce at all, i have not concentrated on loading the bipod. Which I plan to correct next time.

Setting up the natural point of aim and following through have increase my accuracy to this point.

I've been shooting a Marlin lever action BB gun a lot with my son as it's easier to find faults in trigger control, etc... when shooting something with no recoil.

My next test ammo will be the Hornady Superformance but I would hate to find the right ammo but miss it due to my error.

Thanks for the reply and hints. They're appreciated.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Do some dry fire practice and definitely get off the bench. Give that rifle the proper platform to recoil against.

Check out Southwestammo for some lower cost but quality training ammo too.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Thanks, I will check them out.

 

[George63]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

get with someone who loads to get something basic worked up for this rifle, a 55 grain pill should get you to under 1 moa with that set up once you are doing your part well, swap some services if you need to ,wash the car mow the lawn in exchange for loading. 400$ can make 2000 rds of reasonable practice ammo, maybe buy that online training if you cannot get a mentor, if you use up 2000 rds on good practice you should be ready to benefit from premium ammo and know what gear you may want to change but for now the gear is unlikely the weak link

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Thanks, loading my own ammo is my next move but it's not possible at the moment.

So I am hoping to find some good factory ammo that works with my setup for the time being.

 

[tullius]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Try different kinds of ammunition. 55 gr. to 75gr. See what shoots best.

Strange it doesn't like the BH 75's. Try Hornady 75 gr. BTHP Match. If it doesn't like those, it's either you or the barrel.


Also, is this your first AR? If you haven't had experience with the platform, that may be a big part of it..

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

More/different types of ammo are on the todo list. It seems like the Hornady ammo is towards the top of the factory ammo list so that is the next ammo i plan to test.

I've also kept 2 boxes of both previously mentioned Black Hills ammo to retest from the prone position.

I plan to test 4 different types on the same day, conditions and position next time out.

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

You asked for advice about what to do, but qualified it with "other than me", yet that's where you need to re-think things before you're likely to get the results you desire. First, accept as fact that your rifle will always shoot a bullet in the direction it's pointed, and, therefore, if you're not hitting where aimed, it's got something to do with you not understanding where the barrel is pointed, or being able to maintain a steady position. What you need to do is learn how to properly point the rifle, using consistent sight alignment; and, pull the trigger without disturbing aim, utilizing smooth trigger control. Everything else supports those two principles. Calling your shots and correlating to strikes will confirm this.

Thing is, you probably think you already know something about marksmanship; but, as suggested by your results so far, you're confusing knowing how to shoot with getting hits intuitively. The scope and bipod are deceiving you into believing you know how to do it, since relatively good hits at short distance are possible by doing nothing more than putting the reticle on the target. But, for a reality check, move your target out to about 300 yards. With angular error unmasked at that distance, as produced by sight alignment and positional errors, you should no longer have any doubts about the need for some marksmanship training.

One more thing, your focus on ammunition and equipment are actually undermining your progress, since they are distracting you from what's really important. Focus now on marksmanship exclusively. Unless the equipment or ammunition is defective it should not be of concern. Only at the highest levels of certain competitions will effort on massaging equipment and ammunition reveal benefit.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You asked for advice about what to do, but qualified it with "other than me", yet that's where you need to re-think things before you're likely to get the results you desire. First, accept as fact that your rifle will always shoot a bullet in the direction it's pointed, and, therefore, if you're not hitting where aimed, it's got something to do with you not understanding where the barrel is pointed, or being able to maintain a steady position. What you need to do is learn how to properly point the rifle, using consistent sight alignment; and, pull the trigger without disturbing aim, utilizing smooth trigger control. Everything else supports those two principles. Calling your shots and correlating to strikes will confirm this.

Thing is, you probably think you already know something about marksmanship; but, as suggested by your results so far, you're confusing knowing how to shoot with getting hits intuitively. The scope and bipod are deceiving you into believing you know how to do it, since relatively good hits at short distance are possible by doing nothing more than putting the reticle on the target. But, for a reality check, move your target out to about 300 yards. With angular error unmasked at that distance, as produced by sight alignment and positional errors, you should no longer have any doubts about the need for some marksmanship training.

One more thing, your focus on ammunition and equipment are actually undermining your progress, since they are distracting you from what's really important. Focus now on marksmanship exclusively. Unless the equipment or ammunition is defective it should not be of concern. Only at the highest levels of certain competitions will effort on massaging equipment and ammunition reveal benefit.

</div></div>

I know it's hard to read 'Tone' on the internet but I am not assuming I am a good or even average marksman. I have done quite a bit of searching and reading on this form as well as a few others and have a little understanding of what im doing or supposed to be doing but there is enough out there for me to read and learn from without making a new thread on those topics.

The section about people at the range thinking i'm good is just that, something happened and I added it but maybe it has given an air of arrogance and I apologize if that is how it came off.

With that said, i've picked up on a few things I think I need to improve on since last range visit. IE: Concentrate on breathing, loading bipod (as i've never concentrated on it) and trigger control.
I have to judge and test myself as I am alone in this process.

With that said, in conclusion, I do not assume I am a good marksman and I have found enough places to search for hints, teaching, etc... to learn from. There are even a few video's that make sense to me.

What I am asking are a few questions of possible issues that have been brought to my attention and I would rather get more feedback on it before I trust it. So knowing where I stand I would like to know if there is a possibility of there being something else other than me and possibly ammo.

I would be much happier if there isn't as I would already have everything necessary to gain the proper experience and technique needed to get better.

Thanks.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Tone aside, your inquiry is certainly sincere. Otherwise, I would not have contributed to the thread; yet, like the song "looking for love in all the wrong places", you're troubleshooting for errors in places where they are not likely to reside. You will come up empty handed. First get a handle on the fundementals, not from reading, but, doing, preferably with a coach/mentor if you can locate/afford one. If nothing else, learn how to call your shots. Calling shots will do more to help you find your sources of error than any advice you'll get about the matter here, even if advisors here are as sincere as you are.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tone aside, your inquiry is certainly sincere. Otherwise, I would not have contributed to the thread; yet, like the song "looking for love in all the wrong places", you're troubleshooting for errors in places where they are not likely to reside. You will come up empty handed. First get a handle on the fundementals, not from reading, but, doing, preferably with a coach/mentor if you can locate/afford one. If nothing else, learn how to call your shots. Calling shots will do more to help you find your sources of error than any advice you'll get about the matter here, even if advisors here are as sincere as you are. </div></div>

I understand and thanks, your post does make a lot of sense.

Thanks again.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You asked for advice about what to do, but qualified it with "other than me", yet that's where you need to re-think things before you're likely to get the results you desire. First, accept as fact that your rifle will always shoot a bullet in the direction it's pointed, and, therefore, if you're not hitting where aimed, it's got something to do with you not understanding where the barrel is pointed, or being able to maintain a steady position. What you need to do is learn how to properly point the rifle, using consistent sight alignment; and, pull the trigger without disturbing aim, utilizing smooth trigger control. Everything else supports those two principles. Calling your shots and correlating to strikes will confirm this.

Thing is, you probably think you already know something about marksmanship; but, as suggested by your results so far, you're confusing knowing how to shoot with getting hits intuitively. The scope and bipod are deceiving you into believing you know how to do it, since relatively good hits at short distance are possible by doing nothing more than putting the reticle on the target. But, for a reality check, move your target out to about 300 yards. With angular error unmasked at that distance, as produced by sight alignment and positional errors, you should no longer have any doubts about the need for some marksmanship training.

One more thing, your focus on ammunition and equipment are actually undermining your progress, since they are distracting you from what's really important. Focus now on marksmanship exclusively. Unless the equipment or ammunition is defective it should not be of concern. Only at the highest levels of certain competitions will effort on massaging equipment and ammunition reveal benefit.

</div></div>

I disagree with several thing said here.
I have (for work) a couple of built 18" SPR rifles with Kreiger barrels. I had to shoot several kinds of ammunition in them to find which one they liked the best. I shot Winchester 69 match, two lots of Federal 69 match, one lot of Hunting Shack 69 match, and three lots of 77 Black Hills MK-262.

Both rifles really like the Hunting Shack, followed by one of the Black Hills lot.
Once I determined this, I could work on my marksmanship skills with confidence that I had the right ammunition combo for the rifle.

Until you are satisfied with your rifle and ammo, you can have a skill killing doubt about everything else you do.
I agree with you on finding the right ammo and strongly diagree with SS above.

I put together another 18" gun to go after the pigs at night with and since the Hunting Shack shot so well in the other two 18's, I started with this. This ammo did not shoot in this rifle, period. I went to the Black Hills and again, no shoot. I went through a couple of lots of Federal and Winchester, no shoot. Then I found that the rifle will shoot XM-193 very satisfactorily. Until I found this out, I COULD have blamed everything else on me, the rifle, the scope, or the bipod.

If I did not have the other two 18's and had not been there and done that with the ammo, and IF I followed SS's advice, I'd be wasting a lot of high dollar ammo thinking that I was screwing up marksmanship fundamentals until I shot the barrel out, and I'd still be confused.

When you shot the other man's rifle and ammo, you proved in ONE test, you can shoot sub-moa groups with his rifle, but not yours. Was it the rifle/ammo combo or was it you?

If you get 500 rounds of the same lot ammo and it shoots consistent 1.3 MOA groups for the whole lot (say 75% of the groups) with the remaining 25% larger/worse than 1.3 moa, then you have the fundamentals down pretty good, you are OK with your bipod and scope and you can pretty closely say you have a 1.3 moa rifle with THAT ammo.
You would need to iron out the 25% larger groups on what YOU did wrong.

If you shoot 20% or so 1.3 MOA groups, 5% smaller, and 75% inconsistently larger, then you more than likely have a problem with fundamentals, bipod or scope and you will have to eliminate which one is the problem by following SS's advice "Focus on marksmanship exclusively" which is the best advice he gave you in his post.

This is a case of shoot more of one lot of ammo and then report back to us your results. We can give much better feedback with more information from you.

Best of luck.

Small aside. We just broke in a new Compass Lake Engineering built match upper and for the first 150 +/- rounds, this upper began life shooting like shit. Now, broken and reasonably seasoned, with the same Hunting Shack 69 match ammo, will hold 3/4 MOA all day long. During the break in for the first 40-50 rounds, 2 MOA, the next 30-40 rounds 1.5 MOA, the next 30-40 rounds 1 MOA, and now 3/4 MOA.

 

[damoncali]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

You might be expecting too much from factory ammo, and try shooting off a bench (no bipod).

 

[Headgear]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

My first thought was, "that gun should shoot better than that".
When you said that the other guy had the same result as you and you had a better result with his rifle, I quickly assumed that it must be the ammo or the rig. Maybe it is both and you all together.

To SS's defense, not that he needs any help, but this is a completely different type of weapon than the bench rifle you compared it with. Recoil is totally different with an auto than a bolt gun. It could be that it is much more sensitive to different pressure that you are applying to it when you mount the rifle than the bolt gun.

I have been shooting for about a year now (every week end with lots of dry firing also) and hit a plateau at 5/8 MOA. For the longest time I could not get past it and sometimes would slide backwards a little. Recently I got thinking about what would make a gifted shooter different than the rest of us and I thought that it mainly has to be that they repeat the same thing over and over each time they shoot. Like a golf pro, they have the ability to square the club face at the ball each and every time they swing. They don't all do it the same way as each other but they all get it square at the exact crucial part of the swing. I believe that it is the same in shooting. How you mount the rifle is crucial. It has to be done exactly the same every time. Make sure that the amount of grip pressure of your firing hand is the same, the down pressure of your cheek on the comb, the pressure you pull the butt into your shoulder, the amount of pressure that you load the bipod with is all exactly the same each time. And then there are all the other fundamentals as well. they all have to be the same each round that you send so the rifle can recoil the same each time.

I am certainly not a very experienced shooter either but the above definitely helped me to get a little better. I'd love to get some training to go along with what I've read and tried but the economy is making it rough. For the time being, I've been reading and trying to produce match grade hand loads and try everything I can to stack the odds in my favor for each shot. There's a ton to learn.

Try different rounds, keep reading, asking questions and practicing. I hope that you are in a better position than I am right now and can get some training. I think it would be the quickest way to get the answers you are after.

Keep trying and good luck!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Coupla things.

Sterling Shooter and JHuskey know their stuff.

Ammunition is going to play big part in your rifle's performance. Until you can find what it likes, or develop a load it likes, the odds are very good the rifle will not shoot to it's potential.

The scope you mention is probably quite adequate to aim the rifle to its potential, assuming the mounting is secure and the scope is working properly.

When accuracy is not up to expectations, I usually suspect something related to parallax; simply because it's not well taught and understood by the general shooting population. Most shooters assume that if the scope's focus adjustment is right, so is the parallax adjustment, and that can be a very unreliable assumption. In my estimate, maybe as much as half the average shooter's group size can often be attributed to improperly corrected parallax.

Finally, AR's can very accurate, but I am prejudiced to believe that the ones which are best at it are configured as Varmint setups with longer barrels of good origin.

If I were to build a precision rifle, I would be starting with a bolt action. If I were to be building an expert shooter, I'd also be recommending a lot of practice with a reliable (please note, I did <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> say 'expensive') .22LR.

Expectation need to be reasonable. if I want a rifle that shoots like a bolt gun, I'll use a bolt gun. My only C/F semi is a Garand. I know what to expect, it meets my expectations, and is an important rifle in my array. But I don't have it because I need to pick off small targets at great distances. I have another rifle or two primarily intended for such purposes (i.e., is the target a varmint, or is it bigger?).

The Garand serves mainly to maintain my service rifle marksmanship akills. I consider that to be a basic obligation of good citizenship. I believe in employing the right tool for a given task.

I don't know precisely why it is so, but many rifles do (as JHuskey suggests) benefit from being worn in. I suspect this could be particularly true of semi's. I think that before I make suggestions about the value of breaking barrels/rifles in, I preface them with the basic caution that all rifles are different in some way of other.

Greg

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

One complication for many shooters, who have not had shooter/target analysis training, is coming to an understanding for where errors are likely originating. I sometimes say the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed. And, since it usually does, unless the gun is broken or the ammunition is defective, it means not hitting where aimed has something to do with not knowing how to properly point the rifle. But, the novice shooter, who perceives he knows something about good shooting, will not contemplate that not hitting where aimed has anything to do with marksmanship, instead he'll look to excuse results on his equipment and/or ammunition. Now, if the rifle actually is broken, and/or the ammunition is indeed defective, the shooter will have all manner of problems that he'll need to sort through; and, without some sort of coach/mentor intervention, to help the shooter with his trouble-shooting course, the shooter may remain perplexed.

I don't see that my advice has a downside, it's not like I'm advising against trouble-shooting in the rifle and ammunition arenas. Although, for shooters just getting into the accuracy game, since distinguishing between marksmanship and equipment issues is not likely, proceeding with concentration on marksmanship may be a more productive course. At any rate, being able to call shots will at least help the shooter understand the likely source for errors having something to do with marksmanship, or sight adjustment.

BTW, I remember coaching a Soldier who, just coming out of the SDM classroom, seemed to have a problem with his perception of a center mass hold. It turned out that it was an equipment problem. Seems a shooter in an earlier course using that weapon forgot to turn in his BDC with it, so, instead of humping it back to his dorm to retrieve it, he bought a new one from Ranger Joe's which was just down the road from the armory. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time, however, the replacement BDC was made in China and did not properly match a mil spec BDC's graduations. Trouble-shooting to discover and resolve this issue called for some real out-of-the-box thinking, which saved the shooter's ass, as well as mine.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

jhuskey,

You're dead on in the sense that I do not want to second guess my progress when there 'could possibly' be something unknown to me causing an issue.

However, as mentioned I mentioned I would bet I am the main issue.

-------

It's also good to hear that I will have to 1)search quite a bit for the right ammo, 2)shoot some more to break in the barrel and 3)theres a lot of room for improvement (gives me something to look forward too).

First thing, I will shoot some more of both previously mentioned ammo as I have some left, to confirm a few things. 1)Me, rifle and ammo are not compatible or if I some how show improvement i'll answer my own question by showing I was the issue.

Regardless of the results I plan to get at least four other brands/types of ammo to test as well.

-------

Also the other rifle I shot was also an AR15-semi; however, it was on a fancy shooting rest setup. Felt a lot easier to shoot as my breathing did not seem like a factor anymore compared to shooting with just a bipod.

-------

As far as the groups, I always shot 5 round groups. Every now and then i'd have a flyer or two every fifth or sixth group but overall have been consistent once I settle into a little grove.

I tend to stop when no progress is being made as it would just be a waste of ammo after that.

-------

Once again thanks for the replies, whether transparent or not, these posts have helped me realize a few things as well as pointed a few others out.

Thanks.

------

p.s. Every now and then I am able to see the shot right away, in other words I do not have to look for the point of impact on the target. It feels simultaneous, i see it right away. It's starting to happen more often which I assume is a good thing.

Thanks again.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColtJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Third - Optic:</span>
I am using an SWFA-SS 3x9 and understand very well that this is not the best bench shooting optic but I figured it should be good enough to test the rifle at 100 yards. Obviously my bench rest shooting friends recommend much more magnification.</div></div>
Also don't get lured into the "more magnification is better" mindset. Too much magnification at short range will magnify your errors and cause you to overcorrect. Environmental conditons more than any other factor will determine how much magnification you need. A sub-minute rifle will shoot sub-minute on irons or a 3-power scope at 100 yds. Dial it back to 3X at 100 and you'll see what I mean.

Far too many people believe that the ability to see the bullet hole is a critical event and this is simply not true. Seeing the hole and placing a round accurately on target are two very different exercises and should not be approached the same way.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Thanks again for all the reply's.

I made a short trip to the range this weekend and confirmed a few things.

<span style="font-weight: bold">While I would like to think my concerns were genuine as this is my first precision rifle but it is now clear the issue is poor marksmanship</span>.

I did not shoot much but I shot the same rifle no changes using the 60gr V-Max from the original post. However, I shot from the prone position with nothing more than a Bipod, no rear bag.

I was able to shoot two sub MOA groups but it is clear "I" am not consistent.

I find myself forcing the bad shots, basically I can feel it is not a good shot but I try to force it anyway... I also find myself trying to chase the previous shot in order to achieve a tight group rather that remaining consistent, while chasing the bad shot everything else gets out of wack...

It seems when the first shot is good I can follow up on it which makes it clear I need more discipline, practice and experience.

<span style="font-weight: bold">First hotline:</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Second hotline:</span>

Obviously I highlighted the good ones but it makes it clear that this rifle using the 60gr V-Max is possible of sub MOA groups.

I plan to shoot that ammo some more next visit followed by retesting the 75gr BTHP's all from the prone position now on.

Thanks again.

 

[tullius]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Progress! You're learning and improving, that's good. Keep it up. Get a copy of the USAMU's Service Rifle Marksmanship Guide and soak up what's in there. Keep a log book, call & plot your shots. Also, don't neglect to use dry fire as a big part of your regimen. You'll shoot less and improve more.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

You also should try shooting at some smaller targets that are 1 MOA or smaller, I use 3/4" diamonds at 100yds. Aim small... miss small!! Looks like you are shooting 2" circles.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Thanks for the kind words. Looking forward to gaining more experience and hopefully more consistent while im at it.

Just got a new optic with a little more magnification as i can not see the holes very well on the black part of those 2" targets. I can make out holes on the white most of the time. Should mention my eye sight is not very good.

I plan to shoot groups at a few different sized targets, i have the .5" targets from the 21 dot drill and a custom .75" targets i created.

Ill be using some more of the 60gr V-max and then ill confirm whether my rifle likes the 75gr BH or not.

Thanks again.

 

[customshooter]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

have you played with cant?

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you played with cant? </div></div>

I'm not sure, would you mind going into a little more detail.

Thanks.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Cant is not something you play with; but, without an adjustable butt plate, the one sized fits all stock may want to rest in the shoulder with a cant. Shooting with the cant allows for muscular relaxation; yet, unless the cant is consistent you will have a problem concluding where the rifle is pointed, since cant effects elevation as well as windage simultaneously. My service rifle is severely canted in the sitting position when I am muscularly relaxed but not being able to get this cant consistent I put a little muscle into the position to get the rifle straight.

 

[ColtJ]

Re: Looking for a little advice or a few pointers

Thanks Sterling Shooter.