Looking for an Argentine 1909 Mauser expert!

[lrgrendel]

Hi

Need some help please. Please identify what this may be. It has all the proper marks and is dated 1912 by the its serial number. Everything seems to be in proportion. The length of the cleaning rod etc.
I’ve also included a photo of what it should look like.

Last night I bought this Argentine 1909 Mauser Mountain Carbine online from what I believe is a reputable gun shop.
The photos just don’t add up. Also the barrel is 17.5”. Any research I’ve found the barrel is supposed to be 21.5”
If you look at the photos, there is supposed to be a portion of the barrel visible behind the front barrel band and there is not. The wooden hand guard begins immediately.

I have found some info where there are 2 or 3 variants of the Mountain/Engineer model but with no details.

Looking for some factual information or a source that might have it.

Thanks

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm not an official expert, but it looks like you have an Engineers Carbine. Stick a cleaning rod down the barrel to the closed bolt. 17.5" seems short but, I can't say so much about the "not-so-popular" models. keep in mind a lot of "short" rifles went REALLY short in S. America in the later years of Mausers before 30-06 conversion (those that we got to convert).

I don't know who started the "Mountain Carbine" but there ain't no mountains that need a super short barrels in Argentina. At least until the 1970's with issues from Chile. The "Engineers Carbine" is documented in Ball's "Military Mausers of the World".

 

[Darayavaus]

Better pics would be important - it's hard to tell anything without a complete idea of what I'm looking at. What markings are on the receiver? Is it in a different caliber?

the modelo 1909 Mountain Carbine (also known as the Engineer's model) has a 21.25" BBL and different band/spring arrangement.

The 1909 Cavalry Carbine "differed not only in length, but in general configuration" Many were made by DWM, but the Argentines also produced them domestically - So that is a possibility, although the standard configuration was a full mannlicher stock unlike yours. Again, crest markings would be helpful.

The Police rifles were made in several variations, some are very rare. Some of them are modelo 33 rifles with the 23.5" bbl, some (notably the Buenos Aires provincial police rifles) have a shorter 21.5" bbl, and some have so little info on them that it's possible they were made domestically with a shorter bbl.

The wood handguard style in your pic looks more like a Czech or Yugo example.
For all I know based on the info given, you might have one of the Frankenmausers put together by Mitchell on an unscrubbed receiver as a "tanker"

 

[sandwarrior]

Hi

Need some help please. Please identify what this may be. It has all the proper marks and is dated 1912 by the its serial number. Everything seems to be in proportion. The length of the cleaning rod etc.
I’ve also included a photo of what it should look like.

Last night I bought this Argentine 1909 Mauser Mountain Carbine online from what I believe is a reputable gun shop.
The photos just don’t add up. Also the barrel is 17.5”. Any research I’ve found the barrel is supposed to be 21.5”
If you look at the photos, there is supposed to be a portion of the barrel visible behind the front barrel band and there is not. The wooden hand guard begins immediately.

I have found some info where there are 2 or 3 variants of the Mountain/Engineer model but with no details.

Looking for some factual information or a source that might have it.

Thanks

You got pics of the whole rifle? Serial Number? Positions of sling swivels? bottom shot of the bottom metal? Top shot of the receiver? Is it in 7.65x53?

 

[lrgrendel]

Thanks guys.
Got it sorted out.
The barrel had been cut and the stock had been replaced.
It was a 1909 Engineer’s Carbine at one stage!

 

[sandwarrior]

Thanks guys.
Got it sorted out.
The barrel had been cut and the stock had been replaced.
It was a 1909 Engineer’s Carbine at one stage!

Well,....they did a nice job of making it look real, eh? It's a nice rifle for sure. What's your opinion on the smoothness of cycling the action? Argentino's are soooo nice!
If you ever find real Argentino, 7.65x53 ammo, you might try a few. I don't know how collectible they are, but the bullet is much like a Swiss GP-11 bullet in that it is very streamlined. Keep in mind it IS a different diameter.

Hornady makes a 174 gr. bullet specifically for this cartridge, but it is not as streamlined as the original. It sure is shootable!