Low recoil round to 1k

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OkieMike

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#1
Looking at a low recoil rig for the wife. Right now she is shooting a .308 but she says the recoil is bothersome... And she is getting ready to have a procedure done on her right shoulder. She won't be behind a rifle anytime soon, but she said she would like a lighter recoiling rifle for when she is able to resume shooting. We will probably keep her .308 as a hunting/backup rig. But she wants something that she will enjoy shooting "all day."

1000 yards is about as far as she'll ever get out to.

I'm a 30 cal guy and specifically magnums... So I'm just not familiar with the smaller, lighter-recoiling calibers.

I checked out the CM calibers, both 6 & 6.5. Looks like I can get brass for both... At least right now. Haven't checked on projectiles yet but I assume getting either one shouldn't be too impossible.

I also looked at 6 Dasher and brass was available but not as plentiful as the CM varieties... And I know very little about it anyway. And I didn't find many options for it in "off the shelf" rifles to boot. Not sure she is ready/willing for a custom precision build either.

Any other chamberings you all recommend I look at? (Preferably in a "factory" rifle)

Mike
 
#2
223 (yes THAT 223)
6 GT
.243 Rem

The creeds are stupid easy to 1k (as are above).

For lighter recoil, 223 is the bomb. Look at Frank's 224 Valkyrie, he's doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

The 6mms are the rage right now and all run in the same range. 6 Dasher, 6 BR, 6BRA, 6GT, 6XC, 6 creed and .243 Win.

6 creed and .243 run hotter thus burn barrels, but factory ammo.

105 gr Bullet or similar
 
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#3
Built my buddy a 22in 6arc gasser for his wife for the same reason. Now I’m building mine an 18in after seeing how much they enjoyed it. Any of the cartridges listed so far would work!
 
#7
You guys are great. Appreciate all the info.

Just out of curiosity... How is 7mm-08 for recoil? It's a .308 based cartridge but wondered if there was appreciably less recoil with .284 projectiles? Not real knowledgeable about the ballistics of it either.

Mike
 
#8
OkieMike said:
You guys are great. Appreciate all the info.

Just out of curiosity... How is 7mm-08 for recoil? It's a .308 based cartridge but wondered if there was appreciably less recoil with .284 projectiles? Not real knowledgeable about the ballistics of it either.

Mike
Click to expand...
Good hunting round, never became too popular for target shooting. Inferior in drop and wind to 6.5 or 6 from a 308 class cartridge, but hits harder.
 
#9
I'd go .223. I shoot mine to 1000 with 75gr ELDM or 77gr SMK bullets more often than my 6BR or 6.5CM. The only downside is it can be rather difficult to see hits or splash at 1000 in high mirage and/or poor glass. As far as ballistics... well, let's just say that I shot an entire match out to 1400 yards with a 6BR and idiotically used my .223 profile in my calculator. I did better than one might expect (wind was rough that day for everyone).

For one of the 6mm calibers, 6GT or 6ARC offer factory ammo. So does 6BR but it's hard to find and expensive. In any case, you can sell the once-fired brass and recoup $$.

No way I'd recommend 6CM for a fun gun. 1500-2000 rounds and you're looking for a new barrel. The 6.5CM has far less recoil than a .308 but...

... what is the purpose here? If all your wife wants to do is pound steel to 1000, with no intentions of competing, and the rifle is truly for your wife... who probably doesn't give a rat's ass about power (and she has a .308 for more power anyway)... then why not go with a truly light-recoiling round with decent barrel life?

I see no practical difference in a 7mm-08 and a .308. Again, if you - or more importantly, your wife - want low recoil, then go with a .223 or small-capacity 6mm and forget about the whole power thing. It.does.not.matter for target purposes.

EDIT: I just reread the original post. If you already reload for a .308, then (to me) .223 or 6BR are no-brainers because they run the same class of powders (Varget especially).
 
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#11
OkieMike said:
You guys are great. Appreciate all the info.

Just out of curiosity... How is 7mm-08 for recoil? It's a .308 based cartridge but wondered if there was appreciably less recoil with .284 projectiles? Not real knowledgeable about the ballistics of it either.

Mike
Click to expand...

7-08 isn't a ton less than a .308 regarding recoil if you're shooting 150+ gr bullets.

I 3rd or 4th the idea of a good .223. Put one together in a PRS-weight rig, and it's like a pop gun. Plenty of bullets that'll make it to 1K with the right load, but wind will be a bigger factor.

I just finished re-doing my .223 on a 26" Krieger heavy varmint (16.5lb rifle). With 123 rounds down the tube and (23) 5-shot groups with random loads while breaking in the barrel, I have had 1 group exceed 1", but by just so little that it was still under 1 MOA.

My wife shot mine the other day. Came up from the rifle with a smile because she center-punched the 3/4" adhesive dot I had on the cardboard.
 
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#12
If you're loading your own, the creedmoors are easy button. You dont have to load to snipers hide nuclear velocities, and the barrel life is fine with either. Get your ballistic calculator out and run a 140 ELD (.320 G7) against your current 1k yard 308 win bullet. It wont even be close for drop and drift, and the 6.5 cm will have 25-30% less recoil. 6cm will have less recoil still, and track pretty close to the 6.5 in drop/drift.

The 223 is super fun, but they're really weak at 1k.
 
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#13
Like others have said, .223 will get you there but you ain’t going to see the splash much (if at all). Also depends on your budget.

I would lean towards .223 and spot with some nice binos. Or get a 6 or 6.5 with a hellfire brake.
 
#15
OkieMike said:
Looking at a low recoil rig for the wife. Right now she is shooting a .308 but she says the recoil is bothersome... And she is getting ready to have a procedure done on her right shoulder. She won't be behind a rifle anytime soon, but she said she would like a lighter recoiling rifle for when she is able to resume shooting. We will probably keep her .308 as a hunting/backup rig. But she wants something that she will enjoy shooting "all day."

1000 yards is about as far as she'll ever get out to.

I'm a 30 cal guy and specifically magnums... So I'm just not familiar with the smaller, lighter-recoiling calibers.

I checked out the CM calibers, both 6 & 6.5. Looks like I can get brass for both... At least right now. Haven't checked on projectiles yet but I assume getting either one shouldn't be too impossible.

I also looked at 6 Dasher and brass was available but not as plentiful as the CM varieties... And I know very little about it anyway. And I didn't find many options for it in "off the shelf" rifles to boot. Not sure she is ready/willing for a custom precision build either.

Any other chamberings you all recommend I look at? (Preferably in a "factory" rifle)

Mike
Click to expand...
What is the current rifle config? Brake? Can? Weight? Going to buy a new barrel and go to town or a whole new gun. That will help dictate what round you go to. It sounds like you reload so that also opens up a bunch of doors.

6 BR, 6 BRA, 6 Dasher and 6 GT would be my first choices. You can get factory ammo for the creed, but its a barrel burner and is inherently less accurate that the other mentioned rounds due to efficency and design. You can get a 6 creed that shoots well, just have to work that much harder.

The 4 rounds I mentioned, are all easy mode. Lapua/Alpha Brass, Varget/H4350, Berger 105 hybrid, 108 Elite Hunter or 109 Hybrid. Pick a velocity, Jump it from .020-.150 and it will shoot stupid small groups. Tuning is all but a waste of time.

The other thing is weight. A 25 lb 308, well braked rifle is going to have much less recoil that a 8lb 6.5 creedmoor. If you want something factory, Look at the MPA PRS production guns or get on list for the next run of GAP PPR.
 
#17
The definition of shoot all day would be critical for me. The more overbore the cool down time it needs. 6BR 223 6.5 grendel 6 arc. You can shoot those quite a bit without burning as much powder down the barrel.
 
#19
Turkeytider said:
A lot of fun to shoot alright. Having a ball expanding out to 500 yards at my gun club with my Savage 12 LRPV. Club is talking about range expansion to 1K yards. Even though not ideal with .223, looking forward to giving it a go in the future.
Click to expand...

.223 is a lot of fun, low recoil, and while not optimal it's certainly doable at 1,000 yards.

6mm is a nice sweet spot for ballistics vs. recoil, but if you require or want factory ammo it's almost a non-starter.

I built my wife a 6BRA for a low recoiling 1,000 yard rifle, but I reload. You can by factory 6BR ammo, but it's not cheap.
 
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#22
6 arc or 6br/dasher.

6.5 creed will be more recoil than she wants, it ain't much different than 308.

223 can get to 1k, but it won't be fun when you can't see your misses.

105-110 6mm bullet at 2750 is perfect for 1k.

Much reduced recoil, and giving up virtually nothing in terms of hit percentages.
 
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#25
DeathBeforeDismount said:
What is the current rifle config? Brake? Can? Weight? Going to buy a new barrel and go to town or a whole new gun. That will help dictate what round you go to. It sounds like you reload so that also opens up a bunch of doors.

6 BR, 6 BRA, 6 Dasher and 6 GT would be my first choices. You can get factory ammo for the creed, but its a barrel burner and is inherently less accurate that the other mentioned rounds due to efficency and design. You can get a 6 creed that shoots well, just have to work that much harder.

The 4 rounds I mentioned, are all easy mode. Lapua/Alpha Brass, Varget/H4350, Berger 105 hybrid, 108 Elite Hunter or 109 Hybrid. Pick a velocity, Jump it from .020-.150 and it will shoot stupid small groups. Tuning is all but a waste of time.

The other thing is weight. A 25 lb 308, well braked rifle is going to have much less recoil that a 8lb 6.5 creedmoor. If you want something factory, Look at the MPA PRS production guns or get on list for the next run of GAP PPR.
Click to expand...
Bergara B14 HMR Wilderness 20" x 1:10 running a brake.

Nothing really wrong with it, she just starts to feel the recoil after 10-15 shots. And the surgery she is getting ready to have will likely be a 6 month recovery with a nice incision next to her shoulder pocket.

Anyway... lots of suggestions for .223 and I am leaning that way myself. And I am already equipped with brass, powder, and primers for it... Heavier weight match bullets would need to be stocked but that doesn't appear to be an obstacle right now.

I tossed out 1000 yards just in case... But she said 500-600 was really all she was interested in trying... 750, maybe 800 is about the max we can shoot out at the family farm. Shooting to a grand would require a considerable drive to a range... There is one nearby where you can go to 1800 but it's by appointment only... So we don't mess with it much.

Mike
 
#31
223 with 77SMK, 224 valk (85.5 hybrid), 6BR or CM with 105 hybrids.
Don't rule out 6.5CM with 123 or 130s if you to deal with wind regularly.
 
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#32
My wife can’t handle the recoil of my model 7 243 (weighs 7-8lbs), but she can shoot my 11.5 pound 6.5 creed with a brake all day. Your decision depends on if you reload or not and what you want the cartridge to do (hunting vs target shooting). For targets only, I think 223 is hard to beat like everyone else said. If you want to hunt, at least a 6BR for up to deer and 6.5 creed for up to elk. Factory ammo, 6 or 6.5 creed. Something like a Tikka CTR or Bergara HMR with a brake should work perfect if you’re not wanting to spend custom money. I’ve had good luck with the savage 110 tactical (formerly FCP-SR) shooting well too for a little cheaper.
 
#34
Echoing some sentiments that the rifle can help. For a range rifle, big n heavy helps with recoil, as does a Muzzle break and recoil pads. (I had a limbsaver and strap on pad (lol) when I had frozen shoulder. I felt NOTHING!)

Stock design too. A well fitted stock with proper LOP makes shooting much more comfortable.
 
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#35
If you're going to do a lot of shooting at 1k, a .223 is not an optimal round. A 6 CM will easily fit the bill, but it's a bit of a barrel burner. Still, you can get factory ammo for it.

If you reload, any of the short 6s will work great (6 Dasher, 6 GT, 6 BRA, 6 BR). If you don't, then 6 BR would be a great round. Stupidly accurate and very light recoil - factory ammo available, if a bit pricey.
 
#37
Echo .223 sub-optimal at 1K. Hits aren’t hard, but spotting especially misses is just really difficult. ~800 yards would the maximum operational envelope I’d consider for fun.

For similar barrel life and recoil profile there’s 6mm ARC. After that you’re into the 6mm BR, Norma, and after that the 6 CM, and finally the 6.5 CM.
 
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#38
DocRDS said:
Echoing some sentiments that the rifle can help. For a range rifle, big n heavy helps with recoil, as does a Muzzle break and recoil pads. (I had a limbsaver and strap on pad (lol) when I had frozen shoulder. I felt NOTHING!)

Stock design too. A well fitted stock with proper LOP makes shooting much more comfortable.
Click to expand...
I`m not sure how it would physically fit your wife, but if you move to the rifle buying stage, do take a look at the Savage Model 12 LRPV in .223 in a 1:7 twist ( heavier bullets ). I love mine. It`s got to have an all up weight of 12-13lbs. Single shot target gun, 26" fluted SS truck axle of a barrel. It is right bolt, left side eject. Savage markets it as a long range varmint gun which I`m sure it could be if you didn`t have to lug it far! VERY accurate with an HS Precision stock as standard equipment.
 
#39
.223 Ackley Improved. Mine is a heavy barrel from Kreiger...almost zero recoil...I do use a TBAC Ultra or just the brake. I've never put it on a scale, it's not light. The wife, the sister in law, the small ones around all LOVE it.
Quality factory 223 stuff is very accurate to 400 yards. 80 gr Bergers in the formed cases is very accurate to much farther. Coyotes hate it from far away.
 
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#40
If you reload the 224 Valkyrie is awesome. My 26” bolt gun shoots the 85.5 Berger’s at 2950 with varget and has almost zero recoil. Very fun gun to shoot.
 
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#41
I'm a small guy with Brittle bone disease and I shoot 308. Here is some of my free advice.
Since she already has a 308 look to lowering that rifles recoil first. Load 155 bergers with a moderate charge of powder.

Add weight to her rifle. 2 pounds makes a world of difference in felt recoil. Lead fish sinkers in the butt or in the forearm. Lead sandbag behind the grip when she shoots.
Harris bi pod on the front swivel stud. Adds a easy quick pound to my rifle.

Get a softer recoil pad and don't sand it to fit. Leave it wider than the butt, may not look pretty but it makes a huge difference in the felt recoil.

Make sure she has excellent ear protection. Sometimes we let that slip and the blast makes the rifle seems like it kicks harder.

Teach her good recoil tech as in making sure the butt is snug against her shoulder and not free recoiling into her shoulder off a rest.
 
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#42
My wife perceives noise as recoil, as we all do.

Even with muffs and plugs, I'd highly recommend getting a can. I seriously doubt she'll like a brake- avoid those like the plague.

A good fast twist 223 will do some things- IMO that should be everyone's "home base" cartridge, then go up front there as the situation dictates.
 
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#43
OkieMike said:
You guys are great. Appreciate all the info.

Just out of curiosity... How is 7mm-08 for recoil? It's a .308 based cartridge but wondered if there was appreciably less recoil with .284 projectiles? Not real knowledgeable about the ballistics of it either.

Mike
Click to expand...

308 and 7-08 are nearly identical in recoil.

Your wife told you what she needs/ wants, and that is low recoil.

223, 6-BR or 6 ARC.
Anything larger, longer or heavier projectile and she won't want to shoot it.
All three are stupid easy to create great shooting loads and finding powder to feed them is even easier.

Build what she's looking for, not what you want.
 
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#46
6GT would be my first choice. I shoot a 6x47Lapua, because that is what I started with years before the GT came out, but today I would go GT. I also shoot 6BR but while it is good in the wind, it's not a huge difference from 223 when it comes to impacts.

223 is a ton of fun, and what I shoot at long range most of the time, but can be frustrating without good glass or spotting scope. Definitely cheap to shoot and very low recoil.
 
#48
My LRI built 224 Valkyrie with a 6.5 twist 26” barrel and a 419 brake recoils like a popgun w/ 88.5 Hybrids.
Hits on steel are tougher to see at 1K but they’ll trip the flasher on the target, no problem.

IMG_0266.jpeg


These are hits on steel @700 (left 20X10 IPSA) and @1000 (right 25X15 IPSA) while I was truing my Kestrel for the 88.5 load.
 
#49
With all those choices available, I chose the 6mm Dasher, it's very accurate, easy to get small groups, and fast enough to flatten trajectories. Very pleasant to shoot. I have the 224 Valkyrie, 2 6mm ARCs. 223s 6 twist, but the 6 mm Dasher is my choice, along with my 30" 8 twist, long action, heavy palma,...in 308 Win
.
 
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