Lowered recoil for 308, silent capture spring or rifle length spring/buffer?

[jordonc]

I am trying to lower the recoil of my 308 and didn’t know which of the two would be better. I’m using a PRS gen 3 with a carbine buffer setup currently, so I can use the rifle or carbine length buffer tube. I know the JP SC spring is only carbine length and you add a spacer for rifle buffer tubes. Does the JP spring make that much difference in the recoil vs a standard full length rifle buffer and spring? I have an adjustable gas block on my rifle and that helps as is.

 

[wareagle700]

The JP SCS is nice but didn't make a noticeable difference in recoil for me. I ended up going back to a traditional spring (Tubb AR-10) and buffer. For additional recoil reduction I'd suggest a brake.

 

[ajwcotton]

Rifle length tube and tubb flat wire spring. With appropriate weight rifle buffer.

 

[SupressYourself]

Or a suppressor. It's a lot longer wait, more money, and more dicking around than a brake, but it cuts the noise too, which is nice.

 

[padom]

So I just did exactly this over the past 3 weeks on my 22" Bartlein 6.5cm semi. To be clear, it has a Rugged Suppressors 3 port QD brake for my Rugged Surge suppressor. I have always ran rifle length buffer tubes with JP rifle length buffer spring and a DPMS rifle length 308 buffer. This setup has very little felt recoil. I recently decided to test JP's Gen2 SCS. I purchased their optional spring kit and tungsten weights as well. I installed the SCS as it came from JP with the spacer in my rifle length buffer tube.

My impression is there is slightly but noticeably more felt recoil with the SCS installed BUT the brass has NEVER looked so perfect out of large frame semi Ive owned. Not a single mark on the neck or shoulder from extraction, no a swipe or even mark on the case head. I have decided to leave the SCS system installed and take the perfect brass over the slightly more felt recoil. I did not have to change out any springs or add the tungsten weights. Ill be grabbing another SCS setup or 2 for some other rifles so maybe Ill need the springs/weights for them.


If I were you, I would first off ditch that carbine buffer system and order a rifle length buffer tube. Then either get a rifle buffer spring and 308 rifle length buffer or the SCS. After making the necessary buffer changes turn that gas block to almost off then open it up a click at a time, firing one shot in the mag each time till you lock back on last round. Then fire 20rds and make sure they all fire reliable and lock back on last round. You may need to open it one more click after doing this.

 

[jordonc]

Or a suppressor. It's a lot longer wait, more money, and more dicking around than a brake, but it cuts the noise too, which is nice.

Got one ordered.

 

[bfoosh006]

My PSA PA10 GenII 18" middie w/ PRS GenIII runs like a pussy cat with the .308 Tubbs Flatwire, a KAK 9.3oz heavy .308 buffer and a SLR Adjustable gas block.

At the very least I suggest you try the .308 Tubbs Flatwire... it has the added spring weight with the BCG closed, and is normal weight with it open... the added weight "up front" really makes a difference.

 

[Firemn260]

I just built my ar 308 so I don't have much experience with it yet but I can give a little insight on the parts I used and how it shoots.

i went with a 18" JP light contour super match barrel because I wanted a rifle length gas tube. JP low mass bolt carrier, JP silent capture spring and a SLR adjustable gas block. Also used a APA little bastard brake. It is by far the lightest recoiling semi 308 I have ever shot. It is on par with my AR 15s. If it wasn't for the cucussive blast you wouldn't know you were shooting a 30 cal rifle.

Like I said I don't have much experience with other set ups but I was really impressed on haw my build shoots as far as recoil. My buddy has a ar308 which is pretty much a bargain build that will beat the crap out of you. It's way over gassed with a non adjustable block.

 

[bigjake83]

You guys do know that the buffer system / weight, has absolutely no influence with recoil reduction.. but more with the perceived timing of it recoil right??

No​​​ matter what your buffer system is setup to do, at the point that the cartridge is fired with the first recoil impulse cannot be changed with buffer adjustments period!! The only way to reduce felt recoil is by adding weight to the rifle, lowering your loads, and a effective muzzle brake are the only ways to reduce recoil.

Now if you wish to refine the second and third recoil impulse that's when the buffer system is in play.

 

[bfoosh006]

You guys do know that the buffer system / weight, has absolutely no influence with recoil reduction.. but more with the perceived timing of it recoil right??

No​​​ matter what your buffer system is setup to do, at the point that the cartridge is fired with the first recoil impulse cannot be changed with buffer adjustments period!! The only way to reduce felt recoil is by adding weight to the rifle, lowering your loads, and a effective muzzle brake are the only ways to reduce recoil.

Now if you wish to refine the second and third recoil impulse that's when the buffer system is in play.

Because I am a "knucklehead"... Lol... is the 2nd recoil impulse the opening of the BCG from the barrel ?

And the 3rd is the closing of the BCG ?

In layman terms.... if I am wrong could you explain.

Not trying to be flippant, just checking what you mean.

 

[Potss]

Superlative Arms adjustable gas block and a brake or suppressor.

 

[bigjake83]

Because I am a "knucklehead"... Lol... is the 2nd recoil impulse the opening of the BCG from the barrel ?

And the 3rd is the closing of the BCG ?

In layman terms.... if I am wrong could you explain.

Not trying to be flippant, just checking what you mean.

I'm in Oregon tonight, and in no condition to awesome complicated questions.....

 

[bfoosh006]

I'm in Oregon tonight, and in no condition to awesome complicated questions.....

Good enough. Thank You

 

[Billiam1211]

Is there any benefit to a rifle length buffer tube or is that simply for fixed stock systems?

 

[free_rider_151]

Is there any benefit to a rifle length buffer tube or is that simply for fixed stock systems?

Fixed stocks, such as Magpul prs or luth-ar MBA.

 

[Billiam1211]

So running a carbine length tube on a 308 gas gun won’t change the recoil impulse compared to a full rifle length tube?

 

[free_rider_151]

So running a carbine length tube on a 308 gas gun won’t change the recoil impulse compared to a full rifle length tube?

No difference will be felt. Assuming you use the proper spring and buffer... Carbine tube/spring/buffer, rifle tube/spring/buffer ...

Any gas gun is like a finely tuned watch. There is a proper weight of buffer and a proper type of spring to compliment the particular bcg/receiver/chamber. Length of the system is irrelevant if it is well balanced. For example, consider an engine,... If the crankshaft is properly balanced, will the main caps have more or less force pushing against them than the same engine without any balancing? The total force exerted in a revolution will be the same, it will just be exerted over a longer period with a lower peak.
This is of course a rough analogy... But the point should hopefully be understood.
If you look at the hicap competition pistols, we reduce the slide weight and heavily reduce the recoil spring weight so the slide spends more time in the full rearward position so the mag has time to shove those 30 rounds up to feed the next one.... The overall cycle time is the same, but more of it is spent with the slide in the rearward position. The same concept applies to ar's. Lower spring weight and lighter buffer will throw the bcg into your shoulder faster and harder, but the total amount of energy transfered to your body is the same.... It's just that the bcg momentum is transferred faster.... This is why a recoil system can be specific to the gun and for precision shooters, it's tuned to the specific person...
So in a general blanket statement, no, carbine vs rifle length makes no difference if tuned right.

 

[Billiam1211]

No difference will be felt. Assuming you use the proper spring and buffer... Carbine tube/spring/buffer, rifle tube/spring/buffer ...

Any gas gun is like a finely tuned watch. There is a proper weight of buffer and a proper type of spring to compliment the particular bcg/receiver/chamber. Length of the system is irrelevant if it is well balanced. For example, consider an engine,... If the crankshaft is properly balanced, will the main caps have more or less force pushing against them than the same engine without any balancing? The total force exerted in a revolution will be the same, it will just be exerted over a longer period with a lower peak.
This is of course a rough analogy... But the point should hopefully be understood.
If you look at the hicap competition pistols, we reduce the slide weight and heavily reduce the recoil spring weight so the slide spends more time in the full rearward position so the mag has time to shove those 30 rounds up to feed the next one.... The overall cycle time is the same, but more of it is spent with the slide in the rearward position. The same concept applies to ar's. Lower spring weight and lighter buffer will throw the bcg into your shoulder faster and harder, but the total amount of energy transfered to your body is the same.... It's just that the bcg momentum is transferred faster.... This is why a recoil system can be specific to the gun and for precision shooters, it's tuned to the specific person...
So in a general blanket statement, no, carbine vs rifle length makes no difference if tuned right.

Ahhh, thanks for the awesome explanation! That makes total sense. I have a 24-inch LR-308 with a rifle length gas system and a carbine length buffer tube w/ an H2 buffer. I had it tuned with a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block and it functioned reliably. Ran it in several matches and never had any failures in over 1,200 rounds. I picked up a JP Silent Capture System with an H2 buffer. As I was reading, it just seemed like there wasn't a lot of information on best practices for buffers other than try it, tune the system, and see what works.

 

[free_rider_151]

Ahhh, thanks for the awesome explanation! That makes total sense. I have a 24-inch LR-308 with a rifle length gas system and a carbine length buffer tube w/ an H2 buffer. I had it tuned with a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block and it functioned reliably. Ran it in several matches and never had any failures in over 1,200 rounds. I picked up a JP Silent Capture System with an H2 buffer. As I was reading, it just seemed like there wasn't a lot of information on best practices for buffers other than try it, tune the system, and see what works.

I prefer to get JP's scs kits as they allow you to tune them a bit more... But I'm never happy until it's beyond perfect....