M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test for semi-auto precision shooters & reloaders!!!

[elfster1234]

PICTURES BELOW!!

First and foremost, check your own powder drop loads AND reloading information! This is just my own example of what I'm currently testing for the first time this coming weekend. Not saying YOU need to use it. Just spreading my info love like usual. Use at your own risk! Always check for pressure signs! POWDER DROP RANGE MINIMUM TO MAXIMUM IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU & CHECK YOUR OWN RELOADING INFORMATION DEPENDANT UPON THE BULLET BEING USED!!! Use this for EXAMPLE PURPOSES ONLY!! If you don't know what the hell you're doing, then stop & sell your rifle and reloading equipment

Modified . Elfster1234 . Optimal . Charge . Weight (will produce multiple shootout thread entries WHILE finding the perfect powder drop node)

Hello gang. Nothing like killing 3 birds with one stone and who knows you might end up with 2 total kick ass entries for the shootout threads WHILE testing your reloading results to find that perfect "NODE" powder drop charge! I personally don't like to dip too far below 40.8ish and I don't like to load over 43.0ish grns of varget for my 7.62 LMT MWS (168gr AMAX BULLET) as I think anything over 43grns of varget is OVER-GASSED!! POWDER DROP RANGE MINIMUM TO MAXIMUM IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU & CHECK YOUR OWN RELOADING INFORMATION DEPENDANT UPON THE BULLET BEING USED!!! This EXAMPLE ONLY test will run the entire gauntlet from 40.8 to 43.0 grns of varget (the sweet spot IMO for MY lmt mws rifle, NOT YOURS!! powder range is completely up to you!!) WHILE producing 2 total possible entries for the shootout threads (works for both 100yard and 300yard).... I really like the O.C.W test, but I've slightly modified it so you can continuously take shots WITHOUT removing cheek weld during your shots (as I think this is VERY important in order to get kick ass group results & works great for semi-autos)... As for my example, I'm reloading for my LMT MWS 7.62 with a 20LR PMAG!! Note that you load your magazine with 15 total rounds for 3 total 5-shot groups, AND each round is loaded into the PMAG round robin style (for example you load your magazine 40.8, 41.0, 41.2, 40.8, 41.0, 41.2, 40.8 blah blah blah with 15 total rounds / 3 total groups of 5shots each) in order to create a consistent wind variable error to your groups & to help reduce that "infamous 1round flier" phenomenon. Obviously you just need to make sure you take one shot per group round robin style while NOT removing cheek weld / consistent scope view. Works great for 100yards, and even better for 300yards. If you do go for 300yards you might want to use a very large 2'x3' pc of 50cent white cardboard paper from the $1store. You will most likely get better "RELOADING NODE" results at 300yards than 100yards. WHAT EVER YOU DO, do NOT remove cheek weld / scope view during the entire 15shots & calm down and do NOT screw up your round robin shots!! This will totally test your stamina BIG TIME!!! If you can't run the entire 60round gauntlet in one day of shooting (YOU PUSSY!), then split up the 1st & 2nd target entries on two different days!! Easy as that! The more times you run this gauntlet, the more you will find that some groups work better than others. Once you find the ultimate powder drop "NODE" or "PET LOAD", then start playing the ogive seating depths / jump to lands. After that, you should be tip top and kicking ass with your semi-auto!


In order to make this short and simple.... and a picture is worth a 1000words.... and you are all smart people on the hide... I'm sure you can all figure it out from here WITH PICTURES!! Have fun!


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PURE EXAMPLE PURPOSES ONLY!! POWDER DROP RANGE MINIMUM TO MAXIMUM IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU & CHECK YOUR OWN RELOADING INFORMATION DEPENDANT UPON THE BULLET BEING USED = pull head out of ass.


how to drop your powder charges, powder drop charge range minimum to maximum is completely up to you!:

mark all of your brass (all 60pcs) with marker & drop powder. Move ammo into ammo-box once you seat bullets as shown in order, and MAKE sure you load your PMAGS correctly & take shots correctly! DUH! Now don't be stupid here = time to pull head out of A$$:

finished product loaded into the ammo-boxes ready for the range:

how to load your PMAG / Magazine "round robin" style, and how to take your shots "round robin" style in order to create a consistent wind variable error to your groups & to help reduce that "infamous 1round flier" semi-auto phenomenon. As for example on PMAG load#1, you would start loading your PMAG with 41.2 & end up with 40.8. Your first shot would be with 40.8 on the 40.8varget group, and round robin for those 3 total 5shot-groups. Then move onto the next PMAG#2 / next 3 total 5shot-groups, blah blah blah..... Just don't F#CK up your round robin order DUH!:

example of shootout thread entry#1 target, ACTUALLY MARK YOUR TARGET with HUGE powder drop #'s so you can see them in your scope & so you don't forget which shots go where (if you have a scope powerful enough @ 100yards):

example of shootout thread entry#2 target. WOW, look at the 42.0 varget load of .5moa! Might be on to something there!:

eat my LMT:

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http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...0yard-semi-auto-6groups-30round-shootout.html


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Helpful videos to get the best out of your shots!! Great for those new to the AR game:

Shooting Fundamentals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VTMzCiZtE

Understanding Minute of Angle (MOA):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA2PZBD5Tjg

Understanding Mils (Milliradians):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5AGsHSIsVo

Wind Estimation and Compensation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p026Y0WUy6Q

Scope Tracking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q886sc-2grk

Rifle sight in process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDrrJA14wtg

Practical D.O.P.E. (data on previous engagements):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlVEsXZfPg

Shooting at angles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTSBcNgGMNo

Shooting Positions in the field:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lzvjGPgKE

 

[elfster1234]

She is all loaded up with some AMAX beauties for the weekend!

 

[wrhunter]

You could also single feed one round into the mag at a time and let the rifle go to bolt lock each time you fire. This would give you consistent bolt cycling with each round. It would also slow down your rate of fire.

When I do load development on my AR I usually put a sacrificial round on the top just to avoid the chance of a first round flyer. If you believe in that theory.

 

[elfster1234]

You could do that but im also running a possible entry if my groups are small enough which would be against the rules

You could also single feed one round into the mag at a time and let the rifle go to bolt lock each time you fire. This would give you consistent bolt cycling with each round. It would also slow down your rate of fire.

When I do load development on my AR I usually put a sacrificial round on the top just to avoid the chance of a first round flyer. If you believe in that theory.

 

[elfster1234]

Ok, before I say anything I have a couple things to say about this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test of mine. This is big time stuff here people.

First, I took my 9"-13" harris bipod off, and put on my 6"-9" harris bipod for this test. Lets just say the 6"-9" bipod is not coming off.

I usually set my 168 amax bullets to OGIVE seating depth of 2.198 or .020" off the lands / max OGIVE............ and I figured I'd switch it up a bit and increase my jump an extra .005" (.025" off the lands) and set my OGIVE seating depth to 2.193. I'm not sure if setting my OGIVE deeper by only .005" (.025" total jump) made that big of a f#cking difference, OR if magazine loading and shooting by round robin made that big of a difference, OR if someone spiked my coffee with morning with "ass kicking sniper formula 5000", BUT I shot 11 out of 12 f#cking groups sub-moa at 100yards!!! HOLY SHIT! This is hands down the most consistent grouping I've EVER done with my LMT hands down!! EVER! as in EVER EVER!

Next, live and learn..... I should've started out this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test damn near at bullseye or shooting below bullseye because obviously as you jump up in powder charge the group location increases in height BIG TIME (so learn from my mistakes) !!!!.... I was even compensating between 15round magazine loads by clicking down the elevation a bit BUT it still wasn't enough...... SO, if you do run this test don't make the same mistake as me and start at either dead center bulleseye or just below bullseye on the first round robin magazine load#1. Now it is time for me to pull my head out of my a$$! Will not happen again.

I think this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test was massively successful and as you can see with my damn near all sub-moa results (best shooting I've EVER done with my LMT hands down) the round robin magazine feeding / round robin shooting really made a difference with my groups sizes along with my deeper OGIVE seating depth & using the lower 6"-9" harris bipod.... This is the FIRST TIME I have EVER made "sub-moa all day long" with my LMT... HELL YEAH!!

Also, I'm a HUGE fan of now using .75" pink bullseye circles for shooting at 100yards. As in the movie the "patriot", I think there is a LOT of truth to "aim small, miss small".

I allowed about 7minutes between magazine runs and about 7 to 10 seconds between shots. It looks like I might be on to something around 42.2gr varget. I'm going to re-run this test in the future just to make sure, but I was getting really really consistent grouping on varget charges 40.8, 41.0, and 41.2. I would like to come out with this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test with two total "PET LOAD NODES". One for shooting at 100yards and another for shooting at 300yards plus. I like having a lower NODE for shooting at 100yards as it is easy on my brass, easy on my rifle, and saves me powder. Also another higher NODE for 300yard plus shooting and hunting.... I already know my LMT kicks ass with 40.5varget with 168amax bullets for 100yard shooting so I'll need to check these lower end charges weights.

Picture is worth a thousand words! I'm sooooo f#cking pumped right now. I can't wait to do this with my rock river arms EOP bull barrel varmint 5.56!!


target entry#1:
40.8 varget = .678" group size
41.0 varget = .676" group size
41.2 varget = .632" group size
41.4 varget = .834" group size
41.6 varget = .836" group size
41.8 varget = .963" group size
group size average on target entry#1= .7698"

target entry#2:
42.0 varget = .954" group size
42.2 varget = .592" group size
42.4 varget = 1.075" group size
42.6 varget = .831" group size
42.8 varget = .866" group size
43.0 varget = .816" group size
group size average on target entry#2= .8557"


picture of entire M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test target

picture of best group 42.2varget of .592"

 

[problemchild]

Nice shootin. Might want to try a lb of XBR. I switched and my groups sizes shrank a bunch.

Ok, before I say anything I have a couple things to say about this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test of mine. This is big time stuff here people.

First, I took my 9"-13" harris bipod off, and put on my 6"-9" harris bipod for this test. Lets just say the 6"-9" bipod is not coming off.

I usually set my 168 amax bullets to OGIVE seating depth of 2.198 or .020" off the lands / max OGIVE............ and I figured I'd switch it up a bit and increase my jump an extra .005" (.025" off the lands) and set my OGIVE seating depth to 2.193. I'm not sure if setting my OGIVE deeper by only .005" (.025" total jump) made that big of a f#cking difference, OR if magazine loading and shooting by round robin made that big of a difference, OR if someone spiked my coffee with morning with "ass kicking sniper formula 5000", BUT I shot 11 out of 12 f#cking groups sub-moa at 100yards!!! HOLY SHIT! This is hands down the most consistent grouping I've EVER done with my LMT hands down!! EVER! as in EVER EVER!

Next, live and learn..... I should've started out this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test damn near at bullseye or shooting below bullseye because obviously as you jump up in powder charge the group location increases in height BIG TIME (so learn from my mistakes) !!!!.... I was even compensating between 15round magazine loads by clicking down the elevation a bit BUT it still wasn't enough...... SO, if you do run this test don't make the same mistake as me and start at either dead center bulleseye or just below bullseye on the first round robin magazine load#1. Now it is time for me to pull my head out of my a$$! Will not happen again.

I think this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test was massively successful and as you can see with my damn near all sub-moa results (best shooting I've EVER done with my LMT hands down) the round robin magazine feeding / round robin shooting really made a difference with my groups sizes along with my deeper OGIVE seating depth & using the lower 6"-9" harris bipod.... This is the FIRST TIME I have EVER made "sub-moa all day long" with my LMT... HELL YEAH!!

Also, I'm a HUGE fan of now using .75" pink bullseye circles for shooting at 100yards. As in the movie the "patriot", I think there is a LOT of truth to "aim small, miss small".

I allowed about 7minutes between magazine runs and about 7 to 10 seconds between shots. It looks like I might be on to something around 42.2gr varget. I'm going to re-run this test in the future just to make sure, but I was getting really really consistent grouping on varget charges 40.8, 41.0, and 41.2. I would like to come out with this M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test with two total "PET LOAD NODES". One for shooting at 100yards and another for shooting at 300yards plus. I like having a lower NODE for shooting at 100yards as it is easy on my brass, easy on my rifle, and saves me powder. Also another higher NODE for 300yard plus shooting and hunting.... I already know my LMT kicks ass with 40.5varget with 168amax bullets for 100yard shooting so I'll need to check these lower end charges weights.

Picture is worth a thousand words! I'm sooooo f#cking pumped right now. I can't wait to do this with my rock river arms EOP bull barrel varmint 5.56!!


target entry#1:
40.8 varget = .678" group size
41.0 varget = .676" group size
41.2 varget = .632" group size
41.4 varget = .834" group size
41.6 varget = .836" group size
41.8 varget = .963" group size
group size average on target entry#1= .7698"

target entry#2:
42.0 varget = .954" group size
42.2 varget = .592" group size
42.4 varget = 1.075" group size
42.6 varget = .831" group size
42.8 varget = .866" group size
43.0 varget = .816" group size
group size average on target entry#2= .8557"


picture of entire M.E.O.C.W gauntlet test target

picture of best group 42.2varget of .592"

 

[flounderv2]

My personal opinion is that you are burning through waaayyy too many rounds to get your load data..

My Steps
1. Zero Rifle at 100 with Med load loads < 5 rounds
2. Move to 400-500 yards. 400 is usually my go to since I can get it at most places and your not deciphering the wind implications as much as you would at 600.
3. Fire 1 round at .2 gn increments from just above lowest charge weight working your way up to max +.2 .4 depnding on rifle and load
3.a If the rifle is a Semi auto, use 2 rounds instead of 1 at each charge weight or do 2 individual tests.
4. Find powder ranges that group the best from an elevation perspective and pick the middle one. i.e. if you have a 42.2, 42.4, and 42.6 that all group together, go with the 42.4 for the following reason: If you go with the 42.4, you can basically under/overthrow a charge weight by .2 and the barrel harmonics are going to be the same in case you are ever off on your throw weights.
5. Take the charge weight you selected, and based on your bullet type, SMK, AMAX, Berger, etc. load it at what is the best known Ogive to Lan distance. Shoot a group or 2
6. IF, and this is a big IF, you are one of those people that has to squeeze every potential accuracy out of your rifle, (Or at least think you can) go ahead and play with seating depths.

Just my .02.. not meant to be gospel or say yours isnt right. Just saying that ammo is too expensive and hard to find right now to have to shoot that much ammo for load dev and the return on the time/cost investment probably isnt there .I'd be willing to bet you could do the same exact thing in less than 20 rounds easily. I did this with my precision AR (.223) and am getting right around 2-2.5" groups at 400


One thing you also may want to look at is that your group size started to open up with higher charge weights. This may be due to more perceived recoil and not focusing on the fundamentals and proper followthrough. 42-43.5 Varget is a pretty common sweet spot so your loads are on the lower end. Did you record any velocities? Adjustable gas block?
I dont really like the idea of a 100 yard load and a 300+ yard load but if you like it and it works for you, go for it.

By the way. Now matter your method or ammo you used, you had a good day at the range. Good shooting.

 

[elfster1234]

although I agree with some of the stuff you said here, these are the issues I face especially with some of the information I get PM'd to me about these shootout threads... remember, this test is not only about reloading data, BUT also for producing two possible "shootout thread entries".... You never know, you might have some good results and two kick ass entries like myself above... one thing I found out for damn sure with my LMT... it sure can run varget and 168's damn near across the board sub-moa!


1.) not everyone has a range over 100yard

2.) not everyone has a range over 300yard and is more typical / average

3.) as said in my OP, the longer you can shoot out to, the better... but if you want 2 possible entries, then you're limited to 100 and 300yards.

4.) I think this is a smart way of not just wasting rounds on an shootout entry / trying to get an idea of how accurate your rifle can be...

5.) rather than just doing a shootout entry and not getting any reloading info out of it,,,,,, you can get 2 total shootout thread entries (like I got lucky with mine) while getting some type of reloading info also.... and damn near the entire spectrum of powder drop loads from minimum to maximum range. Remember, the spectrum powder drop range from minimum to maximum is completely up to you and the powder / bullet being used.

6.) as for me, ammo is not an issue at all as I reload and I'm loaded up with components.... I have loads of primers, powder, bullets, and brass and can easy chew through 200rounds in one day at the range (usually .24 per 5.56 round and .45 per .308 round finished match grade ammo)...... this M.E.O.C.W. gauntlet test is not to be ran all of the time especially if you're hurting on ammo,,,, but maybe once if not twice with your AR for a particular "hopeful PET LOAD" bullet / powder,,, WHILE running damn near if not the entire range of powder drops possible for that AR being used / reloaded for. Perfect example of this test would be with a 18" OBR and 168amax with varget...


Good points tho!

My personal opinion is that you are burning through waaayyy too many rounds to get your load data..

My Steps
1. Zero Rifle at 100 with Med load loads < 5 rounds
2. Move to 400-500 yards. 400 is usually my go to since I can get it at most places and your not deciphering the wind implications as much as you would at 600.
3. Fire 1 round at .2 gn increments from just above lowest charge weight working your way up to max +.2 .4 depnding on rifle and load
3.a If the rifle is a Semi auto, use 2 rounds instead of 1 at each charge weight or do 2 individual tests.
4. Find powder ranges that group the best from an elevation perspective and pick the middle one. i.e. if you have a 42.2, 42.4, and 42.6 that all group together, go with the 42.4 for the following reason: If you go with the 42.4, you can basically under/overthrow a charge weight by .2 and the barrel harmonics are going to be the same in case you are ever off on your throw weights.
5. Take the charge weight you selected, and based on your bullet type, SMK, AMAX, Berger, etc. load it at what is the best known Ogive to Lan distance. Shoot a group or 2
6. IF, and this is a big IF, you are one of those people that has to squeeze every potential accuracy out of your rifle, (Or at least think you can) go ahead and play with seating depths.

Just my .02.. not meant to be gospel or say yours isnt right. Just saying that ammo is too expensive and hard to find right now to have to shoot that much ammo for load dev and the return on the time/cost investment probably isnt there .I'd be willing to bet you could do the same exact thing in less than 20 rounds easily. I did this with my precision AR (.223) and am getting right around 2-2.5" groups at 400


One thing you also may want to look at is that your group size started to open up with higher charge weights. This may be due to more perceived recoil and not focusing on the fundamentals and proper followthrough. 42-43.5 Varget is a pretty common sweet spot so your loads are on the lower end. Did you record any velocities? Adjustable gas block?
I dont really like the idea of a 100 yard load and a 300+ yard load but if you like it and it works for you, go for it.

By the way. Now matter your method or ammo you used, you had a good day at the range. Good shooting.

 

[elfster1234]

im hoping the weather holds out this weekend to try this with my rock river varmint EOP and some 60gr v-max bullets and varget...... will keep ya informed.

doing a 24.2, 24.0, 23.8, 23.6, 23.4, and 23.2 range in varget & 60gr hornady v-max,,,,, twice (2 total entries with the same powder drop range, 1 @ 100yards & 1 @ 300yards just to test it for shits and giggles).... I really don't want to go over 24.2 or dip below 23.2 so this is the range I'm working with and I figured I'm loaded to the hilt with these bullets so WTF... ill run it twice just to make sure and to make a nice day of shooting out of it. should be fun!