Can anyone tell me will modern (ie. hunting ammo) 30-06 ammo harm an M1 Garand in any way? Any help thanks guys.
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M1 Garand Ammo question
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Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
Some will say DON'T Do IT Some will say as long as it is a few rounds for say a deer hunt you will be OK... I hand load all my '06 so I don't have a direct answer However, modern ammo may not be the best diet for it.
The reason is what is known as gas port pressure,.. the M-1 for as rugged as it is has 1 weakness,if you can call it that, the operating rod under the barrel..
The Op Rod will, it has been documented, bend or possibly break on a steady diet of high port pressure ammo..
There are several websites that give acceptable burn rate powders Ball M2 used mostly IMR-4895 I believe and it is the powder I use most of the time though I am looking at Varget here's some reloading info...
http://home.comcast.net/~jlemons01/ReloadingForTheM1Rifle_JohnRClarke.pdf
Now if you knew what the Factory loaded you could see if the powder used is compatible this is almost impossible to do I am told.. the other option is an adjustable gas cylinder plug which can be set to bleed off the pressure and keep your Op Rod happy...sort of like carbuerator jets
Hope this helps
John
1943 M-1 Arsenal Refurbished (80's Korean re-import)
Some will say DON'T Do IT Some will say as long as it is a few rounds for say a deer hunt you will be OK... I hand load all my '06 so I don't have a direct answer However, modern ammo may not be the best diet for it.
The reason is what is known as gas port pressure,.. the M-1 for as rugged as it is has 1 weakness,if you can call it that, the operating rod under the barrel..
The Op Rod will, it has been documented, bend or possibly break on a steady diet of high port pressure ammo..
There are several websites that give acceptable burn rate powders Ball M2 used mostly IMR-4895 I believe and it is the powder I use most of the time though I am looking at Varget here's some reloading info...
http://home.comcast.net/~jlemons01/ReloadingForTheM1Rifle_JohnRClarke.pdf
Now if you knew what the Factory loaded you could see if the powder used is compatible this is almost impossible to do I am told.. the other option is an adjustable gas cylinder plug which can be set to bleed off the pressure and keep your Op Rod happy...sort of like carbuerator jets
Hope this helps
John
1943 M-1 Arsenal Refurbished (80's Korean re-import)
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
Older 30-06 was like 27-2800fps with a 150, I think almost all newer stuff will be around 3k so a bit too fast. I have used 150 grain PMC and it worked but was obviously too hot. I would not recommend newer hunting loads in a garand either.
If you can reload 30-06 you can make your own ammo - search around online for "service rifle loads" or "_____ powder garand" and you should find load data.
FWIW I load 45 grains of AA2520 behind a 168 bullet for my garand, it's a lighter load but cycles the action reliably and doesn't have a lot of recoil. Fairly accurate too. I would think you could go 46-47 no problem but I am hesitant to do so as my rifle is an older CMP model and not something newer/rebuilt by gunsmith for competition shooting.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCa...20379%20380.pdf
Accurate Arms data for Garand loadings, it's a little old but still good info. 2015=IMR3031, 2230=H322, 2460=H335, 2495/2520=IMR4895, 2700=Win760 give or take. I have used both 2460 and 2520 and 2520 seems to work the best. The advantage of using AA powders is that they seem to be readily available when there are shortages, which I don't really understand. AA stuff has been good powder for me.
Older 30-06 was like 27-2800fps with a 150, I think almost all newer stuff will be around 3k so a bit too fast. I have used 150 grain PMC and it worked but was obviously too hot. I would not recommend newer hunting loads in a garand either.
If you can reload 30-06 you can make your own ammo - search around online for "service rifle loads" or "_____ powder garand" and you should find load data.
FWIW I load 45 grains of AA2520 behind a 168 bullet for my garand, it's a lighter load but cycles the action reliably and doesn't have a lot of recoil. Fairly accurate too. I would think you could go 46-47 no problem but I am hesitant to do so as my rifle is an older CMP model and not something newer/rebuilt by gunsmith for competition shooting.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCa...20379%20380.pdf
Accurate Arms data for Garand loadings, it's a little old but still good info. 2015=IMR3031, 2230=H322, 2460=H335, 2495/2520=IMR4895, 2700=Win760 give or take. I have used both 2460 and 2520 and 2520 seems to work the best. The advantage of using AA powders is that they seem to be readily available when there are shortages, which I don't really understand. AA stuff has been good powder for me.
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
My basic Garand Ball Ammo equivalent load is copied directly from the NRA M1 Garand reprint. 150gr FMJ and 50.0gr of IMR-4084. I would counsel against using powders appreciably slower than IMR-4064 or bullets heavier then 175-180gr, and if so, no more than 48.0gr of IMR-4064 with those heavier bullets.
The WLR primer is adequate for accuracy, and any primers you use should be seated flush with or lower than the base.
Most important, never hand chamber a round and allow the bolt to slam forward unrestrained.
All rounds must be fed from the magazine with some form of enbloc clip in place. This restrains the bolt speed so it doesn't accelerate fast enough to risk a slam-fire.
Single fire is best accomplished with the use of a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device). This is an enbloc clip with has been modified to evade ejection after the last shot.
Sept. 1941 S/A, Arsenal refurb w/1953 Winchester barrel. Bedded/refinished by self. Buttpad 1" extension, N/M .052" i.d. hooded 1/2MOA rear sight, 1/2MOA windage clicks, hooded front sight w/interchangeable inserts. It's a <span style="font-style: italic">shooter</span>, and it's a thing of beauty.
Basic factory 150gr FMJ Ball-Equivalent loads like Fed American Eagle, Rem/UMC, and Winchester White Box are compatible with the Garand, as is Federal 168gr Gold Medal Match. GI Match loads would be of the M-72 or National Match 173-175gr varieties.
Greg
My basic Garand Ball Ammo equivalent load is copied directly from the NRA M1 Garand reprint. 150gr FMJ and 50.0gr of IMR-4084. I would counsel against using powders appreciably slower than IMR-4064 or bullets heavier then 175-180gr, and if so, no more than 48.0gr of IMR-4064 with those heavier bullets.
The WLR primer is adequate for accuracy, and any primers you use should be seated flush with or lower than the base.
Most important, never hand chamber a round and allow the bolt to slam forward unrestrained.
All rounds must be fed from the magazine with some form of enbloc clip in place. This restrains the bolt speed so it doesn't accelerate fast enough to risk a slam-fire.
Single fire is best accomplished with the use of a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device). This is an enbloc clip with has been modified to evade ejection after the last shot.
Sept. 1941 S/A, Arsenal refurb w/1953 Winchester barrel. Bedded/refinished by self. Buttpad 1" extension, N/M .052" i.d. hooded 1/2MOA rear sight, 1/2MOA windage clicks, hooded front sight w/interchangeable inserts. It's a <span style="font-style: italic">shooter</span>, and it's a thing of beauty.
Basic factory 150gr FMJ Ball-Equivalent loads like Fed American Eagle, Rem/UMC, and Winchester White Box are compatible with the Garand, as is Federal 168gr Gold Medal Match. GI Match loads would be of the M-72 or National Match 173-175gr varieties.
Greg
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
For my fathers Garands we load 45.5gr of IMR-4895 under a Hornady 165 A-Max. It loves them. They are slow and very consistent. They dont hammer the op rod and the guns drop all the brass in an 18" spot at exactly 3 oclock. The same load also works great in all our bolt action 30-06s.
For my fathers Garands we load 45.5gr of IMR-4895 under a Hornady 165 A-Max. It loves them. They are slow and very consistent. They dont hammer the op rod and the guns drop all the brass in an 18" spot at exactly 3 oclock. The same load also works great in all our bolt action 30-06s.
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
I have loading 47 grns of 4895 behind 168/175 SMKs and pulled 173s for almost thirty years without hurting my Garand. It is almost identical velocity $ pressure wise to M-72 Match.
Shoots good too. Don't see me changing in the next 30 years.
Same load also works great in my M-70 Vietnam Era Sniper Rifle build, only it shoots a bit faster in the Bolt gun.
I have loading 47 grns of 4895 behind 168/175 SMKs and pulled 173s for almost thirty years without hurting my Garand. It is almost identical velocity $ pressure wise to M-72 Match.
Shoots good too. Don't see me changing in the next 30 years.
Same load also works great in my M-70 Vietnam Era Sniper Rifle build, only it shoots a bit faster in the Bolt gun.
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
I shoot the (pretty much) standard loads in mine. Hook Boutin rebarreled it for me with a Criterion barrel.
I shoot Winchester brass, 48grs 4064, WLR, and 168 Amaxs. My Winchester brass, 47grs IMR4895, WLR and 168gr Amax shoots just as well.
We were issued Hornady's M1 Match ammo (168 amax) at the CMP Eastern Games/Creedmoor Cup match and it shot DAMN good. It shot good enough to take home my first Silver medal.
I shot a John C. Garand Match a couple of weeks ago and a guy I was squadded with was shooting Federal hunting ammo. Every time he pulled the trigger everyone cringed. Recoil/blast was WAY more than the other shooters. I'd bet his Op Rod was taking a beatin'.
Keith
I shoot the (pretty much) standard loads in mine. Hook Boutin rebarreled it for me with a Criterion barrel.
I shoot Winchester brass, 48grs 4064, WLR, and 168 Amaxs. My Winchester brass, 47grs IMR4895, WLR and 168gr Amax shoots just as well.
We were issued Hornady's M1 Match ammo (168 amax) at the CMP Eastern Games/Creedmoor Cup match and it shot DAMN good. It shot good enough to take home my first Silver medal.
I shot a John C. Garand Match a couple of weeks ago and a guy I was squadded with was shooting Federal hunting ammo. Every time he pulled the trigger everyone cringed. Recoil/blast was WAY more than the other shooters. I'd bet his Op Rod was taking a beatin'.
Keith
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
Basic rule of thumb with M1 Garand
Nothing heavier than a 175, No powder slower than 4064/Varget. 4895 or 4064 seem to be the powders of choice. I shoot 4895 in mine, but I've heard 4064 shoots really nice with 168's. If you do go heavier or use slower powders there needs to be some work done on the gas system to rleive the pressure.
Basic rule of thumb with M1 Garand
Nothing heavier than a 175, No powder slower than 4064/Varget. 4895 or 4064 seem to be the powders of choice. I shoot 4895 in mine, but I've heard 4064 shoots really nice with 168's. If you do go heavier or use slower powders there needs to be some work done on the gas system to rleive the pressure.
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
Check out this link. Information on M1 is part way through the article. LC 30-06 is noticeably slower then factory hunting ammunition.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Good Luck
Jerry
Check out this link. Information on M1 is part way through the article. LC 30-06 is noticeably slower then factory hunting ammunition.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Good Luck
Jerry
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
If you are counting LC velocity by USGI published numbers, please be advised that the Government published specs are taken from data that is clocked at a distance of 75 ft. On average, 150gr/.30-'06 velocities tend to drop about 75fps in the first 25yd.
HEY! Where'd that birthday cake come from...?
If you are counting LC velocity by USGI published numbers, please be advised that the Government published specs are taken from data that is clocked at a distance of 75 ft. On average, 150gr/.30-'06 velocities tend to drop about 75fps in the first 25yd.
HEY! Where'd that birthday cake come from...?
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
Greg,
I pulled the 150 gr bullet on some 1968 LC and stuffed a 168 gr SMK in its place. It only shot 2566 FPS in a 24 inch Kreiger barrel M700. I have shot this load out to 600 yards. But as slow as it is, I would not want to try it for long range (800, 900, 1000 yard) F-Class.
I am going to try the Mexican-match experiment with 155 Scenars, but I still think it will be too slow for long range F-Class.
Good luck
Jerry
Greg,
I pulled the 150 gr bullet on some 1968 LC and stuffed a 168 gr SMK in its place. It only shot 2566 FPS in a 24 inch Kreiger barrel M700. I have shot this load out to 600 yards. But as slow as it is, I would not want to try it for long range (800, 900, 1000 yard) F-Class.
I am going to try the Mexican-match experiment with 155 Scenars, but I still think it will be too slow for long range F-Class.
Good luck
Jerry
Re: M1 Garand Ammo question
That velocity sounds about right, my older surplus stuff from the 50's and 60's chronod at 2600something out of a friend's winchester 70. 1978 HXP was 2850 though.
That velocity sounds about right, my older surplus stuff from the 50's and 60's chronod at 2600something out of a friend's winchester 70. 1978 HXP was 2850 though.
