Re: M1 Garand course
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So Your saying that during a high power clinic / match that if my primary weapon , IE rifle , runs out of ammo or malfunctions during the middle of a string of fire and I transitioned to my secondary weapon , IE pistol , to finish the problem at hand that would be acceptable ?</div></div>
Not quite what I'm saying at all. It you learn to shoot, you wont need to rely on you pistol.
During WWI, Gen Pershing Commissioned Colonel Macnab to provide instruction for the Infantry Board, because soldiers COULDN'T SHOOT. Colonel Macnab's instruction is exactly what we call the Small Arms Firing School put on at Camp Perry, and other Mathces.
Prior to the Infantary Board Conducted these Clinics the average qualification was:
5% Expert, 10% Sharpshooter, 15% Marksman, the remaineder were unqulified.
After the Clinics:
25% Expert, 40% Sharpshooters, 30% Marksman and 5% unqualified.
Then came post WWI, pre-WWII, and funds were cut for marksmanship training.
Gen Ike, too learned that soldiers couldn't shoot, so after being elected President, commissioned the ARMY MARKSMANSHIP UNIT. To provide training to the Military, Civilian LE, and Civilians. Guess what, The AMU teaches High Power. Not only are AMU instructors, but the best shooters in the world.
I coached the Alaska National Guard Rifle team (and sometimes Combat Pistol). I've attended the NGB Coaches Clinic, I've attened the FBI's LE Firearms Instructor Developement Course, I've attended the NRAs LE Rifle Instructors course. I put on High Power and Vintage Rifle Clinics, conducted Sniper and Machine Gun Schools. After All that, I still attend every Small Arms Firing School or High Power Clinic I possibly can. Why, because every time, I learn something, or re-learn something that helps my shooting or coaching.
A little War Story if I may:
Back about 1991, I reposented MAC Region VI (Marksmanship Advisory Committe) at the MAC conferance. The Army presented us with a new concept, Combat Action Training for the Soldiers. I was against it, I wanted to keep the KD Ranges and Bullseye Ranges, letting the Units further train with Tactics. The MAC Chairman told us that the All Guard Team went to Europe to compete in the NATO (combat) Matches and really enjoyed the matches, being they were high power and bullseye shooters. So dumb little me ask how they faired, THEY WON EVERYTHING, THEY SMOKED THE ARMY AND ALL NATO COUNTRIES. OK, says I, if they beat NATO at their game, using our training, then maybe its NATO that should change. I sold this to the other Mac Region Chairmen and we voted to keep composit. ONly to be over ridden by the Army. And our soldiers marksmanship abilities have gone down hill every since.
I will end this post by quoting Col Townsend Whelen;
Ref: Small Arms Firing Schools and Camp Perry:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The system.. discribed above ...produce "The finest marksman in the world, the deadliest aggregation of nail driving and fast hitting rifle shoots, are to be found among those who compete at the National Matches..</div></div>
Regarding Pistol I'll quote MG J Hatcher.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Many practical users of pistols and revolvers are fond of making fun of target shooting, and of the advice given on how to learn this branch of the sport. Such an attitude is well understood by the psychologist. It is founded in the unconscious jealousy and feeling of inferiority that the poor shot feels when he sees a well trained marksman making scores out of his power to equal. Unconsciously he try to belittle that accomplishment that he does not possess, so that he will seem to his audience to be just as important and well equipped as the good marksman whom he ridicules." MG Jullan S. Hatcher TEXBOOK OF PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS.</div></div>
Oh and before we get onto the ideal of going to the pistol after wear out our rifle. I was an infantryman in SE Asia, I carried a pistol, I've only used it a couple time crawling down some stinking tunnel where I couldnt take a rifle, or to carry through the chow line in the rear instead of a rifle. Infantry soldiers are riflemen,not pistoleros. </div></div>
No offence brother, but I've seen you shoot. I wasn't impressed. A distungiushed badge takes a lot to get and deserves some respect, but not only are you missing the point, you're too much of a high power zealot to realize times are a changin'. Chuck knows what he's talking about.
Here are the results from the match I shot with you..... was pretty close to real world conditions considering it's a one way range and the limits of safe competition/training:
(then again LL sucked it too....oh snap!)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
OVERALL Colorado Multi-Gun LLC Camp Guernsey MultiGun APR 2007
Stage 1 Stage 1 Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 2 Stage 2 Stage 3 Stage 3 Stage 3 Stage 4 Stage 4 Stage 4
(min) 9 92.72 37.92 37
Place Shooter Div Raw Pen Total Raw Pen Total Raw Pen Total Raw Pen Total Points 1 Points 2 Points 3 Points 4 Points Total
1 Eric Miller L 9 9.00 120.28 13 185.28 37.92 37.92 34 34.00 100.00 50.04 100.00 91.89 341.94
2 Alan Samuel T 9 9.00 128.29 128.29 45.31 45.31 31 31.00 100.00 72.27 83.69 83.78 339.75
3 Zak Smith T 9 9.00 92.72 92.72 50.33 50.33 20 20.00 100.00 100.00 75.34 54.05 329.40
4 James Oneill T 7 7.00 162.68 162.68 84.39 84.39 37 37.00 77.78 57.00 44.93 100.00 279.71
5 Sam Johnson T 5 5.00 179.15 179.15 54.07 54.07 33 33.00 55.56 51.76 70.13 89.19 266.63
6 George Delena T 7 7.00 180.78 180.78 72.88 1 77.88 32 32.00 77.78 51.29 48.69 86.49 264.24
7 Dave Mosier O 1 1.00 124.33 124.33 53.88 53.88 35 35.00 11.11 74.58 70.38 94.59 250.66
8 Paul Jones T 4 4.00 211.9 211.90 50.98 50.98 31 31.00 44.44 43.76 74.38 83.78 246.37
9 Shane Coppinger T 1 1.00 116.66 116.66 53.30 1 58.30 33 33.00 11.11 79.48 65.04 89.19 244.82
10 Steve Sturm T 3 3.00 205.40 205.40 69.86 69.86 34 34.00 33.33 45.14 54.28 91.89 224.65
11 Mike Kolar T 5 5.00 134.14 134.14 none 35 35.00 55.56 69.12 0.00 94.59 219.27
12 C Ward T 8 8.00 211.10 211.10 none 31 31.00 88.89 43.92 0.00 83.78 216.59
13 Fritz Ahlquist T 6 6.00 178.4 178.40 73.63 2 83.63 19 19.00 66.67 51.97 45.34 51.35 215.33
14 Dan Bugh T 6 6.00 221.5 221.50 129.68 3 144.68 29 29.00 66.67 41.86 26.21 78.38 213.11
15 Lisa Fankhauser T 6 6.00 300 1 305.00 88.11 88.11 27 27.00 66.67 30.40 43.04 72.97 213.08
16 Dan Durda T 4 4.00 187.07 3 202.07 86.85 1 91.85 30 30.00 44.44 45.89 41.28 81.08 212.70
17 Robert Holder T 5 5.00 276 3 291.00 107.82 107.82 30 30.00 55.56 31.86 35.17 81.08 203.67
18 Frank Galli T 5 5.00 195.6 195.60 152.2 3 167.20 26 26.00 55.56 47.40 22.68 70.27 195.91
19 Troy Tuggle T 6 6.00 287.1 8 327.10 none 34 34.00 66.67 28.35 0.00 91.89 186.90
20 Robert Cann T 5 5.00 229.70 11 284.70 137.94 1 142.94 22 22.00 55.56 32.57 26.53 59.46 174.11
21 Kraig Stuart L 6 6.00 300 13 365.00 194.15 3 209.15 20 20.00 66.67 25.40 18.13 54.05 164.25
22 Aaron Ohnstad L 4 4.00 167.25 13 232.25 112.54 1 117.54 16 16.00 44.44 39.92 32.26 43.24 159.87
23 Manuel K T 4 4.00 300.00 6 330.00 131.66 1 136.66 15 15.00 44.44 28.10 27.75 40.54 140.83
24 Christopher Algeier T 3 3.00 290.20 7 325.20 103.84 4 123.84 16 16.00 33.33 28.51 30.62 43.24 135.71
25 Eric Jankowski O 4 4.00 300.00 14 370.00 150.35 1 155.35 13 13.00 44.44 25.06 24.41 35.14 129.05
26 Thomas Jankowski T 2 2.00 300.00 14 370.00 none 15 15.00 22.22 25.06 0.00 40.54 87.</pre></div></div>
