M110 place holder, and growing into a system

[LongSchott]

Hello everyone this is my first post.
I recently got a chance to work with my units (ANG) sniper section and was really interested in moving into their teams. They squared me away on literature (accuracy international, Ryan Cleckner) and told me to get as much shooting with a 308 as I can. As I look at getting into this regardless of if I get in the section I have begun investing my limited capital into a scope, rifle, and ammo. Ive got a scope picked out that replicates as close as possible to what I would use on the M110 (leupold 5HD 3-18x44 tremor 3) and I've picked out Sierra matchking 175 .308 to mimmick as close to what the military uses.

My question is this. What would be a good rifle to replicate the M110 as close as possible as cheap as possible. Another concern is I want to grow with the rifle so something that I can change to 6.5 Creedmoor eventually is ideal. I am new to the whole long range shooting but do have a background with M4 and. Ive been looking at

GAP 10
LMT MWS
Seekins SP10
Are there any others I should look at? I'm trying to stay under 3k for the rifle asmoney is tight with me currently in college

Would I be incorrect to try a bolt action with the same barrel length and twist rate?

I am also practicing with .22 ,and a 556 but I can't imagine they are substitutes in practice for a 308.
In addition does anyone have any civilian schools they recommend for gaining some knowledge and experience with long range application?

Any and all advice is appreciated

 

[FatBoy]

I suspect any large frame AR will mimic the M110. Duplicating the 12 billion rounds that have been down the pipe in what’s likely a hand me down clapped out turd may be a bit tougher.

Driving a large frame at distance is nothing like shooting a bolt action IMO. Bolt rifles are forgiving. The old adage of “hold hard” with a service rifle is still true and if you’re not hard into the rifle it will be all over the place. We proved this out again yesterday with a buddy of mine shooting his 308 SR at Deadzero yesterday. A long time semi and bolt shooter. He shot first match and tried to run it like a normal rifle and dropped 15 points. He tighten up the sling a notch and pulled that bitch in tight for the 2nd match and only dropped 6.

Though I have my reservations with the way they sell “in stock” shit LaRue makes a pretty damn good shooter and if you do a builder you can save some money. No matter how you go, do you best to duplicate the trigger, butt stock and LOP. M118LR is some hot shit. It can be duplicated with hand loads but if you don’t reload Federal GMM2 is close. HSM and a variety of others sells this load too.

Once you’re up and running consider shooting some F class matches. They are a very good controlled way to get your wind Observations at fixed distances as well as get instant down range feedback and your call. They don’t do shit for UKR stuff but you’ll need the basics worked out before you go that router anyway.

Good luck. Even if you weren’t working toward filling a billet you’re about to drink from the fire hose.

 

[LongSchott]

I suspect any large frame AR will mimic the M110. Duplicating the 12 billion rounds that have been down the pipe in what’s likely a hand me down clapped out turd may be a bit tougher.

Driving a large frame at distance is nothing like shooting a bolt action IMO. Bolt rifles are forgiving. The old adage of “hold hard” with a service rifle is still true and if you’re not hard into the rifle it will be all over the place. We proved this out again yesterday with a buddy of mine shooting his 308 SR at Deadzero yesterday. A long time semi and bolt shooter. He shot first match and tried to run it like a normal rifle and dropped 15 points. He tighten up the sling a notch and pulled that bitch in tight for the 2nd match and only dropped 6.

Though I have my reservations with the way they sell “in stock” shit LaRue makes a pretty damn good shooter and if you do a builder you can save some money. No matter how you go, do you best to duplicate the trigger, butt stock and LOP. M118LR is some hot shit. It can be duplicated with hand loads but if you don’t reload Federal GMM2 is close. HSM and a variety of others sells this load too.

Once you’re up and running consider shooting some F class matches. They are a very good controlled way to get your wind Observations at fixed distances as well as get instant down range feedback and your call. They don’t do shit for UKR stuff but you’ll need the basics worked out before you go that router anyway.

Good luck. Even if you weren’t working toward filling a billet you’re about to drink from the fire hose.

I have not really looked into LA Rue, ill check them out thank you!

 

[FatBoy]

A buddy if mine got one early this year. Took 3 months to get but it surprised me how it shot boxed Hornaday out of the box. He did a 100 round break in. First 12 shots at 1k, 11 impacted a half sized IPSC. I don’t personally care for how the handguard attaches to the upper receiver as I gives ZERO flexibility if you want to change but I can’t argue that it’s not a shooter and that handguard is locked up solid. His is a 6.5Creed. He did swap the stock for a SOPMOD and changed the trigger to a Geissele match.

 

[LongSchott]

I'll have to look more into it and see if its in my price range or if its worth taking longer to save up. I did like the idea of the LMT MWS having the easy barrel change so I can customize but I am under the impression its probably not very hard to change out for other manufacturers either. Ill be checking YouTube reviews and other SH posts to see what people say about them. So far I've only seen good things.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

KAC ECR is the closest you will get to an M110 as they use practically the same barrel. Here is mine. Literally just got the m110 can on Tuesday.

 

[FatBoy]

Nice rifle. Probably 2.5x over his budget without that $1400 can. Really nice piece though.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Nice rifle. Probably 2.5x over his budget without that $1400 can. Really nice piece though.

Yeah I saw that. Guess what I was just trying to say was save your money and get what you really want.

 

[jeffl838]

Shooting FTR and high power with a 223 AR15 would be pretty good cheap practice. A 223 ar15 wouldn't be competitive in FTR, but it'd be good training. In my opinion. 77smk and 175 smk out of 20 inch barrels have similar elevation holds out to like 700.

I say F class/HP over other stuff because matches are available pretty much everywhere and high power does a pretty good job of teaching you position building while F class, with the smaller 10 ring does a pretty good job of teaching you how to call wind. There are more exciting matches but I think these are a better place to start.

 

[WillHugh]

I find shooting gas guns a lot more difficult than bolt guns - everything you do wrong seems to get amplified in comparison. A decent 5.56 is a good place to get started as it replicates ergos, and holds will be similar out to a reasonable distance. The $ savings on gun and ammo will allow you to shoot a lot more rounds, which in the long run might be more valuable than having the exact rifle.

If you are set on an ar10, the LMT is an awesome system - arguably better than the Knights gun in some respects.

Also, dry fire is your friend. Practice lots of trigger breaks, working on positional shots, and getting your setup quickly - can be done at home every day and doesn't cost anything.

 

[LongSchott]

I appreciate all the info guys. I have a Windham AR with an ACOG that I set up that I can practice with so ill start there. It looks like I'll forget about the bolt gun option and stick with an AR platform.
I absolutely love the KAC but as mentioned I can't swing the dough. I have been liking the LMT and have been looking for a used one but haven't found anything. Local cabelas had a seekins precision used but I wasn't totally impressed. Plus I dont like shopping at cabelas so ive been checking out local gun shops to see whats available. Does LMT do sales or discounts often?

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Shooting is like 1/10th of the shit you need to become a B4. Worry about qualifying expert with your m4, get into the best pt shape you can, ruck and spend a lot of time in the woods with a compass and map.

They will show you how to shoot the weapon systems that may be different by the time you go through camp Robinson, if selected.

 

[LongSchott]

Shooting is like 1/10th of the shit you need to become a B4. Worry about qualifying expert with your m4, get into the best pt shape you can, ruck and spend a lot of time in the woods with a compass and map.

They will show you how to shoot the weapon systems that may be different by the time you go through camp Robinson, if selected.

You are absolutely right on that.. That base is covered however. Ive got buddies im working with to max the PT score and am getting better at land nav (albeit slower than I'd like) im not terribly worried about M4 qual as I've not had issues in the past but am definitely not letting it slip by without practice. I will definitely take your advice on more trigger time and doubling down on the other aspects of training though. Highly focused on PT currently. I apprecite the input as its important to not forget about the other aspect of training for the school. In addition to the end goal of getting into the sniper section and getting to the school ive also put in for SDM, LFS, and SAW-E (whether I get it will remain to be seen) Im looking to expand however I can and see a 308 as something new to master and the next step in progressive training.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Get your head shed or sniper section to give you a copy of the lastest 23-10.

Do your guys not have m2010s?

I was not a sniper FYI, just worked close with them.

Personally I would not waste money on a 308. Army is moving on and you dont want to buy a rifle for the last war.

My understanding is sniper school for both the guard and Ra is very mentally punishing. Learn as much as you can about internal and external ballistics and when they team you, it will make sense much faster than the guys who don’t understand the foundations. Applied ballistics would be another good book from Litz. The shooting part was the easy part coming from guys who got their b4 Or went to sotic.

 

[DavidAR10]

6.5CM by a mile, past 1K... .308 WIN need not apply for gassers.
Get an ARMALITE AR-10 Defense (308WIN 16" Pipe). Pull the barrel and replace with a 22"-24" Proof Research SS or Carbon Fiber Pipe.
You'll be light years ahead in quality and saved funds. If Kevin is still here, ask him how the ARMALITEs stacked up against the choices of the
#DryHumpers.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/01/05/best-rifle-barrel-2/
A SERIES AR-10

 

[LongSchott]

Get your head shed or sniper section to give you a copy of the lastest 23-10.

Do your guys not have m2010s?

I was not a sniper FYI, just worked close with them.

Personally I would not waste money on a 308. Army is moving on and you dont want to buy a rifle for the last war.

My understanding is sniper school for both the guard and Ra is very mentally punishing. Learn as much as you can about internal and external ballistics and when they team you, it will make sense much faster than the guys who don’t understand the foundations. Applied ballistics would be another good book from Litz. The shooting part was the easy part coming from guys who got their b4 Or went to sotic.

I'll order the book today I appreciate the info! Currently reading Ryan Cleckners book.

I'm sure they have them I just was focused on the m110 for this post. I vaguely recall checking one out years ago with them.

So im guessing you suggest going for a .300 win instead then? I'll have to find something within my price range for that platform however im hesitant to go to the higher cost in ammo and I dont have anywhere near me I can stretch its legs. Its a solid recommendation I just dont think its ideal for my situation.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I'll order the book today I appreciate the info! Currently reading Ryan Cleckners book.

I'm sure they have them I just was focused on the m110 for this post. I vaguely recall checking one out years ago with them.

So im guessing you suggest going for a .300 win instead then? I'll have to find something within my price range for that platform however im hesitant to go to the higher cost in ammo and I dont have anywhere near me I can stretch its legs. Its a solid recommendation I just dont think its ideal for my situation.

A .22 trainer and a few thousand rounds of match ammo would probably yield better results and not break the bank. For around$2500 you could scope a Bergera with Gen 2 razor and go from there. Go shoot a bunch of NRL 22.

Or you could go 6.5CM. Almost a clone trajectory wise of 300WM out to about 1000 yards. But the point is to understand ballistics and what the bullet is doing so you can adapt that knowledge to any cartridge. Learning ballistics is the key. They will teach you how to shoot. Then just apply that knowledge.

 

[Johnson184]

Just a civilian here, but are there any gun companies that give MIL/LE discounts?

 

[LongSchott]

A .22 trainer and a few thousand rounds of match ammo would probably yield better results and not break the bank. For around$2500 you could scope a Bergera with Gen 2 razor and go from there. Go shoot a bunch of NRL 22.

Or you could go 6.5CM. Almost a clone trajectory wise of 300WM out to about 1000 yards. But the point is to understand ballistics and what the bullet is doing so you can adapt that knowledge to any cartridge. Learning ballistics is the key. They will teach you how to shoot. Then just apply that knowledge.

Hey that sounds like a perfect solution. I'll stock up on .22 next time I'm out and I did order that book by Bryan Litz btw. I like the suggestion on 6.5 as the bergara is way cheaper than anything else. Still may get an LMT as now I am a bit obsessed with them though hahah. Greatly appreciate the help and insight!

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Head over to the the rimfire forum. The con is that you are going to want to use good ammo. Good rimfire ammo is $5-15 a box of 50. So its still alot cheaper but the cheap bulk crap doesn't shoot. SK mid range stuff is like $6-7 a box and should be fine.

I have been looking for a new factory 6.5CM LMT MWS with MARS lower for a year and they just don't exist. Its a shame.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Just a civilian here, but are there any gun companies that give MIL/LE discounts?

Yea there are.

 

[Jsp556]

I have been looking for a new factory 6.5CM LMT MWS with MARS lower for a year and they just don't exist. Its a shame.

Clyde Armory in Athens Ga. had one last week. I’m not sure if it has sold yet or not. You’ll have to call them as everything on their website has been showing out of stock.