M16 to 1k

[dtkutchu]

So, this guy at my work was in the USMC and said something about them training to hit a silhouette target at 1000 yards using IRON SIGHTS!
Anyone that is in or was in the USMC able to verify this? I just can't see how it would be possible to even see the target at that distance, let alone get a good enough view to accurately determine where to aim. Is he just talking, or is this actually do-able?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: M16 to 1k

USMC Qual is to 500 yards, not 1000 yards.

There have been specific service rifle competition groups like the AMU in the Army that do shoot it to 1000 yards, but very small context, and not "training" for Marines.

 

[chris223]

Re: M16 to 1k

Was it a silhoette of a barn?

 

[Dimp]

Re: M16 to 1k

Standard yearly qual was to 2 ,3, & 500yds. 1K was not part of the qualification. With 80-90gr bullets, the M16/AR will make 1K. Not uncommon at inter-service or long range service competitions.

 

[dtkutchu]

Re: M16 to 1k

That is insane. I can't imagine trying to hit a target at 1k without optics

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: M16 to 1k

.......LUKE.......feel the force.

 

[sinister]

Re: M16 to 1k

80-grain Sierra Match King, 25 grains of Varget, 2.500 cartridge overall length.

Set rear sight to 600 yards. Front sight down three full revolutions.

Send it.

 

[miker]

Re: M16 to 1k

Couple guys I shoot with have 6.5 twist bbls and shoot 90 grs to 1000 in AR platforms, single load only

miker

 

[miker]

Re: M16 to 1k

Also, The FAR trophy, 1000yd with service rifle, prone w/sling, irons


miker

 

[kraigWY]

Re: M16 to 1k

What do you guys think they shoot in 1000 yard service rifle matches now. ARs are beating the scores set by the M14s.

It's not as difficult as one thinks. On my White Oak, I simply use my 600 yard settting and twist the front sight down 4 revolutions.

Most 1000 yard matches I've attended had 4 seperat matches:

1: Any Rifle - Any sights
2: Any Rifle - Iron Sights
3: Service Rifle
4: Team Match

Before the days of ARs, I shot a M1A, My best scores normally were the ones I shoot with the Service Rifle.

 

[armydog]

Re: M16 to 1k

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USMC Qual is to 500 yards, not 1000 yards.

There have been specific service rifle competition groups like the AMU in the Army that do shoot it to 1000 yards, but very small context, and not "training" for Marines. </div></div>

we would shoot 200, 300 and 500 METERS, that's 546.81 yards, at the 500 meter line we shot prone with iron sites. I liked the Marine Corps course much better than the Army's. The army uses pop up targets, more realistic but Marine Corps teaches marksmanship much better.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: M16 to 1k

I believe Edson Range at Camp Pendleton is the only 'meters' range in the USMC.

I qual'd there in boot camp, and a few other times along the way.

The 500-meter was tough with the M16A1 and 55gr ammo, if there was much wind value.

With the M16A2 and 62gr Green Tip, it was not uncommon to go 10/10 at the 500-meter line.

 

[LUNCHBOX0621]

Re: M16 to 1k

LMAO There is no way. Where would he aim? The front sight post would easily cover up the target at the 500 I couldnt imagine trying to aim at something twice the distace lol

 

[kraigWY]

Re: M16 to 1k

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where would he aim?</div></div>

Take a 6 o'clock hold. The target would set on top of your front sight.

It is doable.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: M16 to 1k

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LUNCHBOX0621</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMAO There is no way. Where would he aim? The front sight post would easily cover up the target at the 500 I couldnt imagine trying to aim at something twice the distace lol </div></div>

The national match rifles have a smaller front sight post on them.

 

[LUNCHBOX0621]

Re: M16 to 1k

I didnt even think of that. I retract one of my lol's

 

[RTH1800]

Re: M16 to 1k

miker,
I think you intended to say the FARR trophy.

 

[Dtarget]

Re: M16 to 1k

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LUNCHBOX0621</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMAO There is no way. Where would he aim? The front sight post would easily cover up the target at the 500 I couldnt imagine trying to aim at something twice the distace lol </div></div>

The national match rifles have a smaller front sight post on them.
</div></div>

Even with a narrow post (.042/.052), that target may be smaller than the FSP. As mentioned, with the 6 o'clock hold, targets smaller than the FSP are possible. I have never taken an AR to 1k but after reading this thread I ordered 500 80 gr SMKs.




The farthest I have taken an AR with irons is 750. For me, I need at least 2.5 - 3 moa to aim at.

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: M16 to 1k

When I was a kid, I recall driving down the interstate with my dad and being able to see the next mile-marker when just passing one (so, a mile away). So I could imagine aiming at a target at "only" 1000-yards with iron sights -- when I was 8 maybe! Now, I don't think so. I believe with the eyes, it's all down-hill past the age of 12.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: M16 to 1k

I'm 63, my eyes have went south but not for distance. I need specticals for changing the sights but not for seeing the targets at distance.

 

[sinister]

Re: M16 to 1k

Some shooters tend to use a standard M16A1 (.062 to .065, I think) or M16A2 (.070) front sight.

I can't use a skinny .050 because it is too thin -- I lose the front sight against black bullseyes and E-types so I get verticle stringing. With a wider front sight you can also hold shades and favors without having to adjust the rear sight.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: M16 to 1k

at 1000yds, the black portion of the target is basically the size of the target frame for shooting with irons. You can see it, it's not a problem. 6'x6' can be seen just fine at 1000yds.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: M16 to 1k

There are strategies for 1000 yards which do not make seeing the target a necessity. For example a number board can be what's aimed at, with sight initially adjusted in speculation for what sight adjustment might be required to have the bullet strike the target rather than the number board. There are other strategies too which can help the AR based Service Rifle shooter be competitive and win at 1000. Earlier today I posted in the Reloading section about a strategy that helps me to get points that shooters other than those who are competing professionally may have not thought about. See "LR Tip" there. At any rate, I'm shooting 80 grain Bergers ten thousands off lands and over 24.8 grains of Re-15 which can get me about 2800 fps and pinwheel X elevation from 4 revs on the front sight and about 66 to 77 quarter minute clicks on the rear sight from bottom using a frame hold. My loads are massaged as much as I know how to massage em, for low SD and ES. Oh, almost forgot, I have a 1-7 twist Douglas barrel turned, ported and chambered by Frank White. Ya can't leave out the barrel in any conversation about LR.

 

[JeffinTX]

Re: M16 to 1k

LR bullseye aiming black is a bit larger than a silhouette target, but the silhouette is ROUTINELY shot as part of the Infantry Trophy matches, with service rifles and iron sights at 600yds, rapid fire, prone (in addition to 500/300/200yds). I use a COM hold at all ranges, and in relative steady wind conditions, we would expect 24+ hits out of 28 rounds in 50 seconds shootng SMK 77s from the mag. The AMU guys do even better than that at Perry. IT is a hoot to shoot!

 

[rpk762]

Re: M16 to 1k

I was in the USMC and we never fired that far for score. Granted some days we had plenty of ammo to turn into once fired brass. We would fire as far as we could sometimes. Most of the time we would just switch over to burst and let her rip. I once did 300rds as fast as the rifle would shoot and I could change the mags. Very fun but such a waste.

 

[remi308]

Re: M16 to 1k

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varmint6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was it a silhoette of a barn? </div></div>

Haha, That's what i was thinking.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: M16 to 1k

Tag
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are strategies for 1000 yards which do not make seeing the target a necessity. For example a number board can be what's aimed at, with sight initially adjusted in speculation for what sight adjustment might be required to have the bullet strike the target rather than the number board. There are other strategies too which can help the AR based Service Rifle shooter be competitive and win at 1000. Earlier today I posted in the Reloading section about a strategy that helps me to get points that shooters other than those who are competing professionally may have not thought about. See "LR Tip" there. At any rate, I'm shooting 80 grain Bergers ten thousands off lands and over 24.8 grains of Re-15 which can get me about 2800 fps and pinwheel X elevation from 4 revs on the front sight and about 66 to 77 quarter minute clicks on the rear sight from bottom using a frame hold. My loads are massaged as much as I know how to massage em, for low SD and ES. Oh, almost forgot, I have a 1-7 twist Douglas barrel turned, ported and chambered by Frank White. Ya can't leave out the barrel in any conversation about LR. </div></div>